Read through the thread if you want to see why a lot of people dislike it.
2018 Turtledoves - Best Cold War to Contemporary Timeline Poll FINAL
- Thread starter SargentHawk
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Yeah I did but I was looking for a descriptive summary by one of the critiques. I just see people saying it stinks to be frank.
There are descriptive summaries and well-articulated critiques of it if you read through the last ten pages, I'm not going to do it for you because I have no interest in rehashing the arguments now the voting is over.
EDIT: here is a link to a sort of summary. https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...meline-poll-final.440457/page-2#post-16789292
Threads have a filtering effect in that people are sufficiently polite/nonconfrontational that they're generally hesitant to offer strong criticism in space that effectively belongs to the author. It's the same reason people in real life talk behind each other's back rather than criticizing each other to the face.
I'd be surprised if there weren't people who really dislike my timeline; they just haven't expressed it directly to me [yet.]
Edit: Yep, my TL does have people who hate it - proof here. Personally, I appreciate the fact that this is true, since I'd hate to be writing in an echo chamber.
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David Flin
Gone Fishin'
I'm not particularly enamoured of the Turtledove Awards myself, although I was mildly miffed that Death of Lt Arthur Windsor, although eligible, didn't even get a mention for a nomination, but that's not a big deal. Awards in general have never really bothered me one way or another. Not that I'm saying that they are without value, but to assume they carry some sort of validation would, in my opinion, be erroneous - validation comes from insightful commentary rather than such awards.
For example, when a piece is written clearly affects its success or lack thereof in awards. Under the rules, a piece done and dusted 9 months ago is eligible for the award, but by then, everyone has forgotten about it. Consequently, it gets overlooked during the nomination phase. Knowing this, an author who cares about such awards plans accordingly. Sometimes it seems that scheduling can be as significant a factor as quality.
Now, whether an individual piece merits consideration is a separate issue, but it is clear that a piece done and dusted in May 2017 had less chance of nomination than a piece ongoing in February 2018. Also, I really find it next to impossible to judge quality between different styles. Zany TL or serious TL? I couldn't judge the comparative merits of the two - it would be like comparing apples with the colour pink.
Zany TLs are something I consider myself to be a minor authority on. Obviously, it would ill become me to boast of those I wrote myself, not least because they can no longer be found on this site. Mind you, I've been told by some that their removal was a blessed relief and removing them was a massive benefit to the site, but that's critics for you. Being a professional writer, I've long since become inured to such criticism, and far worse criticism from the people who pay the bills. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that I get greater affirmation, and I certainly learn more, from harsh, considered criticism than I do from unthinking adulation. Eventually, I suppose I'm going to have to come to some kind of point to this comment. Simply put, I just don't get why people get worked up over the Turtledoves - I wrote here for the feedback, no more and no less.
For example, when a piece is written clearly affects its success or lack thereof in awards. Under the rules, a piece done and dusted 9 months ago is eligible for the award, but by then, everyone has forgotten about it. Consequently, it gets overlooked during the nomination phase. Knowing this, an author who cares about such awards plans accordingly. Sometimes it seems that scheduling can be as significant a factor as quality.
Now, whether an individual piece merits consideration is a separate issue, but it is clear that a piece done and dusted in May 2017 had less chance of nomination than a piece ongoing in February 2018. Also, I really find it next to impossible to judge quality between different styles. Zany TL or serious TL? I couldn't judge the comparative merits of the two - it would be like comparing apples with the colour pink.
Zany TLs are something I consider myself to be a minor authority on. Obviously, it would ill become me to boast of those I wrote myself, not least because they can no longer be found on this site. Mind you, I've been told by some that their removal was a blessed relief and removing them was a massive benefit to the site, but that's critics for you. Being a professional writer, I've long since become inured to such criticism, and far worse criticism from the people who pay the bills. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that I get greater affirmation, and I certainly learn more, from harsh, considered criticism than I do from unthinking adulation. Eventually, I suppose I'm going to have to come to some kind of point to this comment. Simply put, I just don't get why people get worked up over the Turtledoves - I wrote here for the feedback, no more and no less.
I'd also add to this that in a lot of cases where criticism is offered the author simply rejects it. This leads to those who have criticisms of the TL deciding not to air them and just ignore the TL altogether. After all, if the author isn't interested in criticism there's really no point in going through the trouble. This is what happened with NDCR, but that's hardly the only example
Also, certain PODs and settings (WWII, American Politics, ASOIAF, etc.) tend to dominate the polls, because that's what people are interested in. Good rule of thumb: if your TL isn't Eurocentric you aren't going home with a Turtledove. The voting is also influenced by fads (which is why ASOIAF had to be split off so that the rest of the TLs could have a chance). The Turtledoves aren't the Oscars of alternate history, they're the People's Choice Awards.
Heavy
Banned
It is one of the best movies of the 1970s - probably in the top five - and anyone who hasn't seen it should see it as soon as possible.
Gentleman Biaggi
Banned
*realizes yghh didn't make it to the second round and hasn't updated in a while*
*quickly writes update*
NSS’ updates are vastly detailed compare to many other timelines (especially my former works), so a slower pace is something that is balanced out by the quality.
Additionally, I suspect that many people don’t bother to read the foreign updates and are just waiting for the 1992 American election. I used to be like that years ago, but after I learned more about world politics I actually went to those updates and gained a whole new perspective of the NSS-world.
Additionally, I suspect that many people don’t bother to read the foreign updates and are just waiting for the 1992 American election. I used to be like that years ago, but after I learned more about world politics I actually went to those updates and gained a whole new perspective of the NSS-world.
I just want to say that I'm very sorry.
I accidentally didn’t nominate The Death of Arthur Windsor because I thought that you had declined nominations for any Turtledove, not just the Newcomer.
David Flin
Gone Fishin'
Not a problem.
In my opinion, if the Turtledoves have any value, it is as a celebration of the work of an individual, rather than of the individual themselves. It might be a rather idiosyncratic view, but it's the one I hold. It would be rather hypocritical of me to accept a nomination for the Newcomer (or other award celebrating the individual), but it wouldn't be hypocritical to accept a nomination for a piece of work I've done.
It's no big deal. It didn't reach the standard required for nomination. It's not the end of the world. Although there were some TLs I wrote that were the end of the world.
Interesting dichotomy. My opinion is that the awards in NPC are essentially entirely separate ones run under the Turtledove banner.
I like the Turtledove awards for you get exposed to some really good TL's that you've never seen before.
Bulldoggus
Banned
TBH, I'm really disappointed by the route this thread has taken. This is a place to celebrate the best work of the last year, not to rag on whatever TL you don't like. Uncool, guys.
I mean I don't know where else we were supposed to discuss the merits of the nominees.
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