"1945" by Forstchen and Gingrich information

While goofing around of the net I came across some interesting information on the book "1945" by William Forstchen and Newt Gingrich. Now I know what most people here think of the book and thought that this comment by Forstchen might shed some light on the subject and does explain why two otherwise good authors produced something very different from their normal writing.

William Forstchen said:
Bill Forstchen
June 24th, 2005 10:26 PM

Dang,

I just discovered this place ten minutes ago and I'm completely overwhelmed! First off, I must extend a sincere apology to everyone! When I get into writing mode I tend to become somewhat autistic, just go into withdraw in my corner, hunch over the keyboard and start writing. Compounding that, for nine months out of the year having to come out of what I call "the zone" to shower, shave and then teach some classes at Montreat College. And yes, on a very personal note, the last couple of years have been tough ones, nursing both of my parents as they finally passed on, a situation that did leave me in complete shock and numbness for awhile.

Since this particular thread is devoted to 1945, I think it appropriate to break eleven years of silence here and explain what happened.

What was published bore little semblance to what Newt and I originally wrote. . . and feel free to quote me anywhere on that one.

Newt and I met early in 1994, months before the "revolution of 1994" hit. Newt had been kicking around the fundemental ideas for 1945 and we were introduced by our publisher of that time, Jim Baen. It was sort of an instant "hitting off" between the two of us, and within weeks we were both eagerly at work together on the project, even while Newt was formulating the Contract with America.

We turned in a rough draft of the book, about a week before the election of 1994. And please remember the words Rough Draft. That was the beginning of the unraveling, and after that experience never again, will we ever let an editor/publisher see a project before we are completely satisified with it.

The publisher, with rough draft in hand, and within days after the election of 1994, began a radical and heavy handed re-edit of the book. He did so, at first, by faxing me copy of what he was doing. I objected vehemently to what the changes were, and was bluntly told that it was no longer my concern. Several weeks later these "rewrites" were "leaked" to the media and the explosion started. The humiliating "sex kitten" and the direct insult of George Bush senior which hit the front page of the Washington Post. . .something WE DID NOT WRITE.

Newt and I were stunned. What was coming out as supposedly "our prose" had, in many places little resemblance to what the media was now reporting. The response from the publisher. . .all publicity was good, so be quiet and let him do "his job.". It had gone amok and has haunted us ever since. Frankly, by the time the book came out, both of us were sick with the result and just wished it would disappear. And yet again, it has haunted us ever since and thus my decision tonight to at least, obliquely point some things out. I think an astute reading of this short note can catch a lot of implications of just how bad the experience really was. . .in fact I was so disgusted with it all that I came close to quitting the publishing field all together since my name and Newt's was tagged to something that we felt, had been taken away from us and redone.

A few readers across the years have picked up on this by doing a comparison of 1945 to Gettysburg, or to my own individually written Lost Regiment books. A study of style and approach will show the nearly complete disconnect. My anger as well. . .for years afterwards, whenever introduced at professional events, there was always the snicker, "oh 1945" and it felt like being blamed for a crime I did not commit. . .nor for that matter a reflection of the genius that Newt has. Even more enraging when the "publisher" was sitting in the audience, and remained silent as to all that happened behind the scenes.

A major point. Our original draft was over 160,000 words, the printed version, a third less. In fact, the original carries the story through the "Battle of England" which all disappeared when due to a self imposed short deadline, the publisher, cut off the last third of the book, with the infamous "to be continued" line. . .a line Newt and I never wrote and absolutely never approved of.

Our apologies to all interested in the book. We have no plans at the present moment to aggressively pursue getting the rest of the book back out there, though rights have reverted to us (thank heavens), though all things might be possible someday.

If you wish to read a far more accurate example of what happens when Newt and I put our heads together, definitely go to the Gettysburg series. We had a quality editor and publisher there with Saint Martins Press and rather than rewrite, we worked with a fabulous team who helped us, through the editing process to polish what we wrote, which is the way it is suppose to be.

And a personal observation. There's been a lot of debate across the years as to who writes what. When it came to 1945, again something that's haunted us for years, which I now feel compelled to break silence on, well I guess the legally safe answer is to simply say, compare Gettysburg to 1945 and you will see a profound difference. The difference is 99% of the text of Gettysburg was untouched after Newt and I finished it. Newt is one heck of a co author to work with, in fact the best ever. It is a true team effort and there is many a plot twist, character development and commentary in our books that most definitely sprung from him. As Bogart once said to Louie. . . "a beautiful friendship."
 

Ian the Admin

Administrator
Donor
So he's basically claiming "Jim Baen wrote the book". (Jim Baen is by all reports a gigantic asshole so that wouldn't exactly surprise me).

However, I don't know about the process of authorship to wonder, though... don't writers have *some* kind of approval over the editing process? Harlan Ellison used to go by "Cordwainer Bird" on works he felt had been mangled. That would be a *very* potent threat if one of the book's main selling points is that the author happens to be a currently famous politician.

The bit about "keeping it quiet" and breaking 11 years of silence is a bit weird too - so far as I'm aware, publishing contracts don't include clauses about not criticizing the editor. They could shout it from the rooftops and the only result would be that Jim Baen likely wouldn't publish their books again... not that they should've wanted to keep doing business with him anyway after that.
 
I dunno... a lot of the book doesn't seem to be much like Forstchen's other writing..... but the last chapter, when the eggheads are all sitting around planning how to massively upgrade the USAF in a couple of weeks, seems exactly like Forstchen... particularly when compared to his Lost Regiment series, which has several similar scenes where the Yanks have to quickly and massively industrialize...
 
Yeah, I remember a paragraph in which some German dude describes how they'll use the Dornier 335, the Me 262, and the Arado 234 in various roles. That's classic technomasturbation at its finest.
 

Ian the Admin

Administrator
Donor
MerryPrankster said:
According to www.ralan.com, Jim Baen just had a stroke.

This might have something to do with it.

Hrm. Don't criticize someone who supposedly did you a humiliating wrong until just after he's dead and has no chance to refute or retaliate?

A quick Amazon search shows that Forstchen has used many different publishers over the years, so it's hardly as if criticizing Jim Baen would have threatened his livelihood. Sounds to me like he either had a distinct lack of balls, or that when the book was published the authors *didn't* think all that badly of the massive edits (and so didn't elect to do anything like having their names removed), but that Forstchen had second thoughts after the book was not just panned, but went on to live in infamy.
 
Ian the Admin said:
So he's basically claiming "Jim Baen wrote the book". (Jim Baen is by all reports a gigantic asshole so that wouldn't exactly surprise me).

To this date, Baen refuses to talk about the book. I know Baen really pushed the book hard and massively overprinted it, so that when it flopped, the failure nearly pushed Baen into bankruptcy. Whether the folks involved feel that it's the fault of the other side or not, there was certainly enough damage to go around.

As a book, it's on the fair to poor range in my opinion. The big problem is the "To be continued..." line, as mentioned in the paragraph. That fact alone really pisses me off.
 
Well, it's not as if Forstchen hadn't already published books which read much better than 1945, and the comparison to the Gettysburg trilogy is telling, so we could be charitable and assume that someone didn't read the fine print before signing the dotted line.

On the other hand, say what you will about Jim Baen, I have to have some fondness for a man who posts 81 different books online free for the reading.
 
Ian the Admin said:
Hrm. Don't criticize someone who supposedly did you a humiliating wrong until just after he's dead and has no chance to refute or retaliate?

To be fair about it, Forstchen wrote what I quoted above over a year ago, so the coma doesn't have anything to do with it. It may be that Mr. Forstchen simply doesn't like to air "dirty laundry" in public. There are a couple of authors that I am well aquainted with who really don't like their publisher or co-authors, but don't say anything about it in public.

A quick Amazon search shows that Forstchen has used many different publishers over the years, so it's hardly as if criticizing Jim Baen would have threatened his livelihood. Sounds to me like he either had a distinct lack of balls, or that when the book was published the authors *didn't* think all that badly of the massive edits (and so didn't elect to do anything like having their names removed), but that Forstchen had second thoughts after the book was not just panned, but went on to live in infamy.

Don't know about any of that, but while I think the full story is somewhere in the middle, I am willing to lean more towards the authors version of the events.
 
1945 is set in an alternate universe in which Germany does not declare war on the United States after Pearl Harbor. So the US fights what amounts to a Pacific War against Japan and hammers it into submission without completing the A bomb. Meanwhile, Hitler conquers Russia and forces Britain to sue for peace.

Bill's explenation really clears up a lot of questions I've had about the book, which was poorly written and edited. Obviously the Gettysburg trilogy prove that Bill and Newt are a far better writing team than 1945 would suggest. I would hope, since they now have the rights, they rework the material and publish it the way they meant to at some point.
 
SionEwig said:
While goofing around of the net I came across some interesting information on the book "1945" by William Forstchen and Newt Gingrich.
Where did he post that originally?

edit: never mind, found it.
 

Chris

Banned
From a while back:

From an email on the STIRLING list:

Subject: Re: 1945 and why it was not finished
Author: John Ringo
Date: 07 Mar 2004 11:41 AM
Long, weird, story that I've heard several versions of.

The short story is that Baen and Tom Doherty Associates agreed to do
a collaborative novel with Bill Fortschen and Newt Gingrich (Bill
and Newt's idea IIRC) during the height of Gingrich's popularity.
The base idea was Newt's, Bill was to do most of the writing. Newt
agreed to "push" the book towards the major non-SF market, thus
giving it a huge potential market share and Baen and Tor agreed to
do major advertising. (Major for SF houses, anyway.)

As it turned out, the book came out just as Newt was in crash and
burn mode. He refused to discuss it publicly, they ended up with a
huge number of unsold copies/returns and it nearly crippled Baen
books financially.

Some of the unofficial longer story items:

The IRS, for some unknown reason, suddenly found it important to
audit Baen books. Not only once, but every single year after 1945
came out until the Bush administration was elected.

Significant portions of the book required rewriting, and since there
was no one else to rewrite it, other people being a bit too busy,
Jim had to. Jim's motto, in everything, is "less work for Jim." This
was "more work for Jim."

The overall financial impact was high enough that Jim had to ask
some major writers to forego a portion of their royalties during one
period. Some did, some forced him to stick to the letter of the
contract. But even in the case of those who did, it created some
strained relationships that may or may not have contributed to a few
semi-major authors walking away from Baen books.

To say the least it created strained relationships between Jim and
Bill Fortschen. There was also the subject of the advance that had
been paid based upon a very high sales number. Gets very sticky when
a book crashes and burns like that one did.

And for years thereafter, until they changed warehouses and pulped
the last of them, whenever Jim went in the warehouse the one book
that was noticeable, because it took up about 25% of the shelving,
was 1945. The one time that Jim took a major gamble on a book. And
he nearly lost the whole shooting match.

You're not going to, ever, see a 1946 as long as Jim Baen is the
head of Baen Books. Not from Baen, anyway.

John

Speaking for myself, I was never that impressed with the book. Although it had a lot of innovative ideas, it read in places like VERY pro-american propiganda - for ex ex-WW1 servicemen defeating crack German commandos - and in other places like a massivly boosted version of WW2 in Europe. Midway would almost certinly not have occured in a TL without Hitler declaring war on the US (US would have had more forces to pour into defending the Pilipines and other places) and the US might end up sucked into the UK-Germany war anyway, just because of joint operations in the Far East.

(And most of the Germans struck me as REALLY stupid:D )

I keep tossing about the idea of a US-Nazi War in 1960, which would at least offer much potenial for NEW and ORGINAL ideas. Redoing WW2 with better weapons is NOT orginal.

Chris

PS - Don't knock Jim Baen too much. He gave us David Weber, SM Stirling, John Ringo and dozens of others I have enjoyed reading.
 

backstab

Banned
I picked up the book yesterday and I have finished it ( In the early hours this morning)........ The idea behind it was good but it just seems to be lacking in something but I have read worse books. The raid into america was intresting but and I dont think the US would be able to take on the Germans in a ground role without getting curbstomped !​
 
The IRS audited Baen every year from when "1945" was published until Bush took power (translation: Clinton left).

I smell political shenanigans.
 
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