革命不是请客吃饭: A Different Cultural Revolution

Heh. Very nice.


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Has Chiang Ching-kuo picked a side yet? There were always rumors that Lin Biao was working for the KMT... and it's not a proper China screw until the Strait blows up.
 
Has Chiang Ching-kuo picked a side yet? There were always rumors that Lin Biao was working for the KMT... and it's not a proper China screw until the Strait blows up.

Hmm, Jiang Jieshi would still be in power at this point (that is, until he drops dead in 1975 from renal failure), and I don't think that Jiang would be willing to pick a side (since he still has his delusions about "recovering" the Mainland, which at this point is ASB). As for Jiang Jingguo - we shall see, though I believe he also may not pick a side, even if he does his political reforms either as in OTL or earlier.
 
First of all, very interesting. Quick question, how pacified is the internal situation? that is, compared to the height of the cultural revolution and where China would be at that point OTL.

Thanks. It's kind of a difficult question to answer at this point. Keep in mind that the height of the Cultural Revolution has already come and gone; the peak years were 1966-69, and by 1971, where I am now, some small measure of sanity was beginning to be restored. Of course, the current power struggle will change all that . . . how much so will be revealed in the next update.

IMO if Lin sacks the Gang of Four and moves closer to the moderates he will guarantee his position as national leader. OTOH if he sticks with the ultra-leftists he will find himself at odds with nearly all the surviving Marshals and senior party leaders (since they all got screwed by the ultra-leftists), which can only end in a military coup and Lin Biao cannot guarantee that he will come out on top.

So however this story ends, it will be quick and decisive. Not at all a continuation of the Cultural Revolution.

Well, right now there are three distinct factions struggling for power: Lin Biao, the Maoists, and the Zhou Clique. Lin will definitely not make common cause with the Maoists at this stage of the proceedings; after the events that I've previously described, the bridges are pretty well torched there. I agree with you that if Lin could engineer a rapprochement with the moderates, he'd be pretty well set. That's not out of the realm of possibility by any means. Zhou Enlai is in a much weaker position than the other two factions, and if he realizes that soon enough, he may be driven to cut a deal with Lin. But yeah, ultimately the PLA will be the kingmaker. Of course, given the disarray under which they were operating (ranks had been abolished), it may take a bit of time for everything to get sorted out.

Great Stuff! This is a real nail-biter! You've got a real sense of drama here, with the Night of Three Speeches and all. Gives the real-life CR a run for its money.

And though I was optimistic at first, I've got to agree with the "China looks pretty screwed" gang. Since Zhou Enlai has antagonized both the radical and military wings, it looks like any moderate/pragmatic influence isn't likely to survive if he loses :(

Thanks! In the short term, things don't look all that bad. For example, it's very unlikely that there will be any kind of protracted civil war. But in the long term, as you said, things aren't looking so positive right now. It's uncertain what position the "moderates" will be in when the dust settles, and the whole affair may lead to a presumption on the part of the PLA that they have a right to decide who becomes the Paramount Leader in the future, as well. And that would be very bad news.

Not an expert on China but for any degree of stability not only does it need one faction to win but also to win quickly and decisively. You do not want a large fraction of dissatisfied losers. They might be a source of later unrest and possibly for Lin in particular draw in external intervention. As such, under the best of results there is likely to be a good bit of instability and probably another round of purges of some kind or another to remove potential opponents from dangerous positions of influence.

I couldn't agree more. This is exactly what's likely to happen, no matter who wins. Even the "moderates" would be purging people left and right if they won, which is unlikely, and a prolonged conflict would be disastrous. But for all the reasons listed above by tallwingedgoat, it's probable that the power struggle will be nasty, brutish, and short (apologies to Thomas Hobbes). Of course, that's assuming that no Unforeseen Events occur . . .

Hmm, Jiang Jieshi would still be in power at this point (that is, until he drops dead in 1975 from renal failure), and I don't think that Jiang would be willing to pick a side (since he still has his delusions about "recovering" the Mainland, which at this point is ASB). As for Jiang Jingguo - we shall see, though I believe he also may not pick a side, even if he does his political reforms either as in OTL or earlier.

Yeah, I can't see either of the Jiangs doing much. In fact, for reasons that will be explained in the next update, no foreign power is going to do much.

*The next update will hopefully be ready by tomorrow. I just have to write it.
 
Yeah, I can't see either of the Jiangs doing much. In fact, for reasons that will be explained in the next update, no foreign power is going to do much.

*The next update will hopefully be ready by tomorrow. I just have to write it.

Sounds good. :cool:

What could be interesting to see, regarding Jiang Jingguo, is if he tries going for an earlier PRC/ROC rapprochement in informal, private circles and back-channels (as opposed to the rhetoric for public consumption that would continue Jiang Jieshi's delusions) with whoever ultimately takes control of the PRC. At this point, there is going to be no Nixon visit to China (I'm assuming), which changes things, but if some sort of peaceful co-existence between the PRC and the ROC were to begin after the end of the power struggles - who knows?
 
Jay Taylor's biography of Chiang (which came out last year) suggested that Chiang Kai-shek's personal history with Zhou Enlai was quite amicable. I think the idea of an earlier PRC/ROC rapprochement is interesting; the same actors we see in today's informal rapprochement are likely to be involved...
 
Jay Taylor's biography of Chiang (which came out last year) suggested that Chiang Kai-shek's personal history with Zhou Enlai was quite amicable. I think the idea of an earlier PRC/ROC rapprochement is interesting; the same actors we see in today's informal rapprochement are likely to be involved...

Hmm - if that is true vis-à-vis Jiang Jieshi, that does put an interesting spin on things. Presumably, in the case of an early PRC/ROC rapprochement, Jiang Jingguo would continue it throughout his rule along with his other reforms (if he either acts as in OTL or implements them even earlier, along with other stuff).
 
I can even source my statements!

From the Washington Post review (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/23/AR2009042303315.html):

"The Generalissimo" is especially timely appearing as it does during a period of flux and promise in the delicate dance between Taiwan and China. A new closeness is apparently taking hold: trade agreements are being signed, direct flights are being established and Chinese tourists are flocking to the island. There's even talk of a peace treaty. So the book naturally raises the question: Whose vision of China's future is really winning? Is it Chiang's dream of a more free-wheeling nation, or the image of a revolutionary utopia championed by his communist nemesis, Mao Zedong?



Taylor reveals intriguing details, such as Chiang's decades-long secret communications, after his 1949 defeat, with Mao's No. 2, Zhou Enlai...
 
Heh. Guilty as charged. Of course, the main reason that I'm interested in the Cultural Revolution is the sheer weirdness of it all. I really have trouble coming up with any other analogues to it. I mean, basically the government declared war on itself, and for a time turned over a large deal of power to radical college students. Talk about the inmates running the asylum. So, question for everyone: can you think of any analogy to the Cultural Revolution elsewhere in history?

No. The weirdness is akin to Savanorola's Republic or the radical Protestants in Munich, but none of those were imposed by the prior rulers.
 
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