The Biden Express

[Stolengood]

Quick nit to pick: The only reason Claudine Schneider lost IOTL is because she was running against the perennial holder of that seat, who had been drafted back in by the state party after saying he was going to retire... I speak, of course, of Claiborne Pell.

The only reason Pell was drafted is because Schneider was seen as a very viable candidate; due to Rhode Island being almost entirely a one-party state, a lot of people who kept getting deferred from running as Democrats (in favor of "established names") finally had enough and became Republicans in order to run. Claudine Schneider was one of them; she was very liberal, especially on environmental and women's issues. I know this because I had a history professor last semester who, before he started teaching and being a historian, was a bus driver and labor organizer, very pro-labor and pro-Democratic... and he canvased for Claudine Schneider that year, because he thought she was a great candidate. (Keep in mind that the Republican Party is pretty much rump in RI outside of gubernatorial elections, and that the state party is next to nothing like the national party.)

With Schneider being seen as unbeatable IOTL (except for, of course, the small matter of Claiborne Pell), I'm pretty sure she'd have beaten Jack Reed ITTL. Might want to change that result, then.

 

[THE OBSERVER]

I hope the complete list of legislation passed under the Biden Administration, with a brief, detailed explanation of each one, is posted soon.

 

[Plumber]

That was one of the best-written election updates ever. Turtledove-worthy. I totally called the Packwood thing, and after bellwhether Missouri went for Cuomo, I knew he had won... But no! Absolutely riveting. And the one-term pledge from Cuomo coming before the Thornburgh upset... Simply a beautiful end to the TL. Or is it? The way you ended the last update hints that this isn't quite over.

 

[JVM]

A brilliant update, and while 1 EV wins tend to be a little unrealistic usually, I think it works well here and I look forward to the final original update before we see a Thornborough presidency.

 

[Whanztastic]

When I had read that Cuomo had won Missouri, I thought he'd win.

Wow at that close Thornburgh win. Be interesting to see how the Senate and House races shake out.

What a twist!

Great Biden cabinet. See when you can get a Thornburg cabinet list up.

It'll be coming.

New York Senator Kennedy? Cool.

I had hinted at that a bit - she appointed as the director for National Endowment of the Arts, and was a lightening rod of social conservative criticism. Pissed off (ala Elizabeth Warren) she decided to get more involved in politics.

wow just wow. That's going to take a long time to digest. Bravo!

Thanks!

At least the Supreme Court is protected. One question though, why would Gingrich still have power after his failed strategy attacking Biden and his partial responsibility for Cheney's death. I figure he'd be politically blackballed.

I'll explain Gingrich's pivot in the next post. As I hinted in the future documentry (the one that also featured Obama) Gingrich isn't going away yet.

Yes, the Supreme Court looks better with Stevens, Bumpers, Kearse, Cabranes and Ginsburg being the liberal wing and has occasional concurrence with O'Connor. I wonder if Kennedy is eventually going to do Lawrence type decisions ITTL or will he retire under Thornburgh since he won't be able to do his liberatarian stuff. Of course there's still Scalia and Rehnquist for the reactionaries.

The more liberal SCOTUS has already had an impact - most obvious example is Casey v. Planned Parenthood largely decided in the opposite direction than it was IOTL.

Quick nit to pick: The only reason Claudine Schneider lost IOTL is because she was running against the perennial holder of that seat, who had been drafted back in by the state party after saying he was going to retire... I speak, of course, of Claiborne Pell.

The only reason Pell was drafted is because Schneider was seen as a very viable candidate; due to Rhode Island being almost entirely a one-party state, a lot of people who kept getting deferred from running as Democrats (in favor of "established names") finally had enough and became Republicans in order to run. Claudine Schneider was one of them; she was very liberal, especially on environmental and women's issues. I know this because I had a history professor last semester who, before he started teaching and being a historian, was a bus driver and labor organizer, very pro-labor and pro-Democratic... and he canvased for Claudine Schneider that year, because he thought she was a great candidate. (Keep in mind that the Republican Party is pretty much rump in RI outside of gubernatorial elections, and that the state party is next to nothing like the national party.)

With Schneider being seen as unbeatable IOTL (except for, of course, the small matter of Claiborne Pell), I'm pretty sure she'd have beaten Jack Reed ITTL. Might want to change that result, then.

I typically do not do this but... this was really compelling. I will adjust.

I hope the complete list of legislation passed under the Biden Administration, with a brief, detailed explanation of each one, is posted soon.

It'll be coming.

That was one of the best-written election updates ever. Turtledove-worthy. I totally called the Packwood thing, and after bellwhether Missouri went for Cuomo, I knew he had won... But no! Absolutely riveting. And the one-term pledge from Cuomo coming before the Thornburgh upset... Simply a beautiful end to the TL. Or is it? The way you ended the last update hints that this isn't quite over.

Thanks so much! I was really delayed on it. I know there wasn't as much meat as their could be, but I hope it was easily followed. And it does set up an in-universe DBWI - the question is when, if ever, this deal becomes public knowledge. Whose tell-all bio will drop that bombshell?

A brilliant update, and while 1 EV wins tend to be a little unrealistic usually, I think it works well here and I look forward to the final original update before we see a Thornborough presidency.

Thanks, I agree perhaps it was a bit silly, but although the electoral college was close, the state-by-state wins were solid enough, no Cuomo wins the PV, no countless recounts in Cuyahoga County. What bugs me is when every TL turns into Florida 2000.

 

[d32123]

That update was beautiful. Well done.

 

[Expat]

Incredibly fun read! Thanks for that!

While I understand folks who are frustrated by nail-biter elections, you can't deny they're entertaining. And this very confused election cycle made perfect sense to turn out a nail-biter.

The only thing I noticed was that you said no Democrat had won without Texas, but Biden did just four years ago.

Really interesting map...I really must credit you for realistically depicting a marginally more moderate GOP and more untethered Democrats. That's the only thing that could've led to a map like that.

I'm also glad you gave it to Thornburgh for a few reasons. I'm a bit iffy on Cuomo, to be honest; slightly to the left of Clinton, but given the Congress he has to work with I doubt we'd see anything but Clinton redux without the scandal- interesting, but not the unknown ground of Thornburgh country.
But more than that, it's just realistic in a two-party state that the office is going to go back and forth. This gives you more room to play with the Democrats in the future, and in the meantime Thornburgh's a potentially moderate guy to hold the reigns. Hopefully he'll have a meaningful, lasting effect on his party.

Bravo!

 

[Heavy]

This gives you more room to play with the Democrats in the future, and in the meantime Thornburgh's a potentially moderate guy to hold the reigns. Hopefully he'll have a meaningful, lasting effect on his party.

Thinking back to the Republican Convention update, it looks like Thornburgh's biggest challenge might not be the Democrats, but rather the social conservatives/Religious Right faction in his own party. I think that will be interesting to see.

 

[Whanztastic]

Incredibly fun read! Thanks for that!

While I understand folks who are frustrated by nail-biter elections, you can't deny they're entertaining. And this very confused election cycle made perfect sense to turn out a nail-biter.

The only thing I noticed was that you said no Democrat had won without Texas, but Biden did just four years ago.

Really interesting map...I really must credit you for realistically depicting a marginally more moderate GOP and more untethered Democrats. That's the only thing that could've led to a map like that.

I'm also glad you gave it to Thornburgh for a few reasons. I'm a bit iffy on Cuomo, to be honest; slightly to the left of Clinton, but given the Congress he has to work with I doubt we'd see anything but Clinton redux without the scandal- interesting, but not the unknown ground of Thornburgh country.
But more than that, it's just realistic in a two-party state that the office is going to go back and forth. This gives you more room to play with the Democrats in the future, and in the meantime Thornburgh's a potentially moderate guy to hold the reigns. Hopefully he'll have a meaningful, lasting effect on his party.

Bravo!

Gah! Thanks for catching that. I fixed that line, entered an "except President Biden."

The reallignment of American politics has been post-poned, the map is different as you've commented, and I am hoping to show the political version of "be careful what you wish for, you may just get it."

And despite my personal biases, and reports at the time, Cuomo may've been just a little to liberal for the country, and had a mixed record.

Thinking back to the Republican Convention update, it looks like Thornburgh's biggest challenge might not be the Democrats, but rather the social conservatives/Religious Right faction in his own party. I think that will be interesting to see.

 

[AdmiralMB]

“Mr. President-elect,” Atwater said with a grin, “what a surprise.”[/FONT]

“Hi Lee, I wanted to talk to you real quick. Seemed easier in person.”

“About what, sir?”

“The future, Lee. The future.”

Jesus Christ, the living and non reformed Lee Atwater in the Thornburg White House. I have a new name for the part 2 of this TL:

......Thornburgia, Fear and Loathing on the Biden Express.

 

[PistolSO]

Jesus Christ, the living and non reformed Lee Atwater in the Thornburg White House. I have a new name for the part 2 of this TL:

......Thornburgia, Fear and Loathing on the Biden Express.

I am pretty sure that this is not going to turn dystopian since the author has said that they don't like things going too much in one direction or another as far as the utopia/dystopia scale goes.

For a story perspective, I think Thornburgh was the better choice and the author has teed up a compelling 90s. Be interesting to see what foreign policy challenges Thornburgh has to deal with. Also makes you wonder if Thornburgh will have George H.W. Bush as his Secretary of State or someone more neocon like a Wolfowitz or a Poindexter.

It will also be interesting to see if the Hawaii same-sex marriage thing happens like OTL or something slightly different. I can somehow see some version of DOMA come around 1996 ITTL.

 

[Whanztastic]

Thanks for the ideas and praise but I almost forgot something! The newest Cabinet position and its holder:

Chairman of the Cabinet - William Gray (PA) 1992 - 1993

If anybody has Cabinet position suggestions, please feel free to share them.

 

[Heavy]

And I completely failed to realise that I haven't posted in this thread before, so I must say I've been reading it for a while, and although I'm not very familiar with the time period or some of the players involved, I've enjoyed it a lot.

 

[historybuff]

I've got a few National Security team ideas.
National Security Advisor: Sam Nunn.
Secretary of Defence or Veterans Affairs: John Mccain.
Attorney General: Orrin Hatch.
Secretary of State: Jack F Matlock.

 

[Kermode]

I'll heap on the praise by saying that election night was really well done. Suspenseful without being drawn-out, incredibly close without seeming too forced, and with a great fake-out at the end.

I'm glad Thornburgh won, though. He (and Branstad, for that matter) are very much unknowns, making this TL much more interesting and unique. It's great seeing different people in the spotlight for a change.

By the way, what's the list of currently known presidents ITTL, including the flash-forwards? I tried digging through the thread, but it's long, and searching "President" is unsurprisingly unhelpful.

 

[JVM]

I'll heap on the praise by saying that election night was really well done. Suspenseful without being drawn-out, incredibly close without seeming too forced, and with a great fake-out at the end.

I'm glad Thornburgh won, though. He (and Branstad, for that matter) are very much unknowns, making this TL much more interesting and unique. It's great seeing different people in the spotlight for a change.

By the way, what's the list of currently known presidents ITTL, including the flash-forwards? I tried digging through the thread, but it's long, and searching "President" is unsurprisingly unhelpful.

Joe Biden's first term, Richard Thornbrough, Joe Biden's second term, and at some point Cecelia Richards, daughter of Ann Richards, IIRC

 

[Whanztastic]

Joe Biden's first term, Richard Thornbrough, Joe Biden's second term, and at some point Cecelia Richards, daughter of Ann Richards, IIRC

That's a bingo. Also at sometime Rick Perry runs for President.

 

[Kermode]

Weird, I thought there was more than Richards . Thanks though.

 

[THE OBSERVER]

The best part of Biden pulling a Cleveland, is that he doesn't have to run for reelection, which means he doesn't need to be pragmatic and he can say what we wants to say and do what he wants to do on policy. He could be Bulworth, two years before the movie comes out.

 

[Whanztastic]

Weird, I thought there was more than Richards . Thanks though.

You bet!

The best part of Biden pulling a Cleveland, is that he doesn't have to run for reelection, which means he doesn't need to be pragmatic and he can say what we wants to say and do what he wants to do on policy. He could be Bulworth, two years before the movie comes out.

Now I want to try and find footage of Biden rapping.