I think the Romans have inadvertingly made a lasting enemy/rival out of Germany/ the HRE out of this...
Yeah.
And there's the blowback against the Romans that I was starting to hope for. If TTL's Spaniards are anything like OTL's Spaniards, then Rhomania had best look to it's colonies.
Underestimating TTL Spaniards are a good way to lose some teeth.
A huge Latin armament that's Spanish......
In other words, a Spanish Armada......
And a significantly better armed one compared to the original. (I can’t remember where I found the reference, but I remember reading somewhere that three 74s from the late 1700s would have a firepower comparable to the combined Spanish and English fleets of 1588.)
Another great update, really loving it
If the Latins didn't have Double Standards, they wouldn't have any at all it seems. (I'm aware that people aren't the same as their leaders, I'm just channelling my inner Roman). At least the HRE sees the Romans as rivals, rather than a conquest. That's at least a step up.
I'm somewhat hoping they'll take the lesson and accept that there are consequences, but that'd probably take a significant Roman propaganda effort. Not a terrible idea IMO, especially if it can be done via the Archbishop of Salzburg. An indirect source of succour isn't a bad thing. The reality is that I think the Romans NEED to get economically tied with SE Germany. With the Danube River pretty much secure, that'll be one hell of an economic lifeline, moreso than it has been historically. If the Romans really leverage and accelerate that development, not only will it support their allies, but it'll create an economic boom in SE Germany that, whilst it won't create warm feelings, would tie the local interests to peace with the Romans.
I understand the rationale provided for the King of Spain taking issue, but I think that'll bite him back hard. He's taking a foreign war, that was forced on the Romans, and the repercussions of it (again, Latin Double Standards, etc, see above) to justify a personal vendetta. That won't be good for Spanish interests, and I'm pretty sure that unless he gets a quick victory, it'll complete the bankruptcy of Spain, and potentially shatter the Accord - if not turn the Roman Empire against them in the Med. I don't know how Arles will respond, but they'll certainly be at the heart of that. If anything a Spanish vendetta war gives the Triunes Northern Europe, not the Romans finishing a separate war. Looks like Spain will be as changed as Germany in the future (as will the Romans).
Austria, as part of Hungary, is tied economically in with Rhomania via the Treaty of Belgrade. But Romans won’t be pushing much further than that, if at all. This is the start of a shift; Rhomania is going to be focused very much on Asia in the coming decades, possibly at least to the end of the century. With Europe, they’ll be content to set up a more thorough and stable buffer state system and leave it at that.
Regarding Spain, Ferdinand’s desire for war with Rhomania is solely personal. But his desire is only meaningful and dangerous because there are pre-existing grievances with Rhomania in eastern waters.
It's not like the reverse wasn't true either.
True.
So the Spanish got angry at the Romans for being irrational and helping the rise of the Triunes, and their response is to ignore the Triunes to attack the Romans who are the greatest rivals to the Triunes in the East?
Pot, meet Kettle. I hope their King dies soon and is replaced with a pragmatist.
Well, the Romans are also the greatest rivals of the Spanish in the East, and they’ve been so for far longer than the Triunes have even been in the east.
Well, that's a bit ominous. D3's tax reforms have anything to do with that?
The Romans definitely haven’t worked all the bugs out of a modern economic system. Plus the sheer size of the war effort has been a huge opportunity for corruption.
My friend you are confused and got it backwards, Germany has inadvertently made a lasting enemy out of Rhomania.
Likely it will follow the pattern of pretty much all historical enemies, they keep fighting war after war because one is pissed the other won last time.
Pretty much.
Elizabeth needs a husband. The cool play is to marry Zimmermann but no matter how popular he is with the masses it will be hard to overcome his peasant background.
Maybe she marries von Starhemburg instead, assuming he's a bachelor? Would shore up Munich and she's not exactly swimming in options right now.
Yeah, there’s absolutely no way she’d marry Zimmermann. He is a peasant and she is an Imperial Wittelsbach, the daughter and sister of Emperors.
She might wait till the end of the war since she already has an heir to both the duchy and empire. It would give her a chance to consolidate her power, I have a feeling she is getting really tired of not having control of her life at this point, and marry someone who performs well to give her more legitimacy and goodwill.
Elizabeth wouldn’t rush a major decision like that. And she would like to be a power in her own right.
Nice map. I wonder what is the name of Mexinca realm? Also steppe-Siberia appears to be in quite a funny shape. As for the Triune, I believe that the Angevins would be proud
It’s just the ‘Empire of Mexico’.
So, Spain turns against Rhomania. Well, I wouldn't be surprised if some gold from Constantinople is diverted towards North Africa "encouraging" some Berber corsairs to attack Spanish ships...
Also, regarding Zimmermann, if I am not mistaken, the last we 've seen him he was somewhere in Anatolia, how did he end up in Austria?
If Rhomania started subsidizing the corsairs, Sicily starts to reconsider loyalties. Too many Sicilians have been enslaved by the corsairs of North Africa, and if the corsairs are encouraged in any way, there will be more Sicilians enslaved.
Is Spain on track to annex Aragon? I remember seeing some people suggest that Arles and Aragon join together which would be amazing. Although it seems Spain has their hooks pretty deep into Aragon at this point.
There’s no conscious goal. Aragon is ruled by a cadet branch of the Trastamaras and very much in the Spanish orbit, to the point it’s an unofficial satellite. Think Rhomania=Spain and Aragon=Vlachia/Georgia.
Is it? I'd point to this as the primary model of imperial light cavalry
https://byzantineoplomachia.wordpre...-of-fifteenth-and-sixteenth-century-in-italy/
Not that in practical terms tactics, composition or even appearance will be that much different granted...
The light cavalry ITTL are called turkopouloi. Their appearance and tactics aren’t much different from OTL, but the TTL conceit is that the Laskarid re-conquest of Anatolia saw a lot of Turkish light cavalry under the Roman army, with a resulting influence on future Roman light cavalry. So they look a bit more Turkish. Between that and the name, the Germans ran with the stereotype.
when you're about to crush a rival in a couple of years but its okay because you've made a new one to crush afterwards
Gotta keep the habit up.
I really hope Aragon remains independent - I’ve always loved the name “Aragon.” Don’t really see how the Isles can make it long term though sadly.
That'd cause the Accord to flip out since it'd give the Romans staging grounds for military operations in the Western Mediterranean, and likely push Arles to seek closer Triune ties. For the sake of soft power, the Kingdom of the Isles should remain independent.
I'd rather see Aragon merge with the Arletians to force their strategic priority towards the south again, to distance Marseilles from King's Landing and give the Accord more unity and geopolitical weight.
The Isles can stay independent by playing the bigger powers around them, while not being worth the bother of conquering. Not all small states are doomed, although the Isles will never be a big power in their own right.
Rich coming from Ferdinand, especially considering many of his own nobles were on the Roman side.
And thus the German eagle/Niketas arises
• Resentment of royal absolutism - check
• Piles of debt from Theodor's delusions of grandeur - check
• Bad harvest after bad harvest - check
I'd say the population and environment are more than receptive to his ideas for some good ol' equality
Once both Rhomania and the Triunes are done, Zimmermann will have free reign to spread his flames of revolution, especially considering most of the Imperial brass are gone. Germany first, the world next.
Did the Hungarians object to the Roman annexation/vassalization? I thought it was one of the provisions of the failed treaty. Is the Archbishop now forced to switch his allegiance to Avignon or does he still retain ecclesiastical freedom. Maybe a new arrangement analogous to the genesis of the Greek Catholic churches in OTL - Western/German Orthodox Church which follows the Latin rite but is subject to the Ecumenical Patriarch.
Got me thinking about Johann Eck and the Mendicant Orders. Do all of the orders - Dominicans, Franciscans and Templars report to Rome or does Avignon have their own competing version of each?
BTW, are the Cham still Sunni? Or has Rhomania's missions been persuasive enough to sway them?
Does this mean the Romans are still at a state of war with the Triunes?
I just saw what you did with Hungarian-Vlach borders cheeky appendage sticking out into Hungary's backside.
I think Western Austria (County of Tyrol) was annexed too.
Salzburg plus this clause is quite evident of Roman intent to safeguard their future Italian arrangements from German incursion. I think their ambitions include the Veneto and Ravenna at least besides Tuscany. Aside from that, Rhomania has Nile Germans aplenty but is it time for some Mesopotamian Germans?
I'm quite surprised that the treaty didn't include any financial/economic provisions. Has Rhomania really succeeded in sucking every last penny out of Southern Germany to think reparations similar to their previous payments to the Ottomans will be measly and insignificant?
Maybe the reforms came as a need from the scandals. Then again, it may be a bump in history as Rhomania adjusts to their uncertainty about progressive taxation. However, I'm wondering how great the impact of these scandals will be, considering that Rhomania's already in a slump and food prices will only stabilize in 1636.
A good place to start would be Goa if they want to increase their influence in India. Or maybe they have their eyes on Indochina. More Roman possessions? The Ottomans? Maybe all of them.
The Hungarians are happy enough with their own gains to not be bothered much with Salzburg. In his capacity as a lay ruler the Archbishop is a Roman vassal, but as a religious figure he’s independent. That said, the Emperors in Constantinople and not the Popes will have the veto on who will be the next Archbishop.
Templars all report to Rome. Franciscans and Dominicans are split; Hospitaliers answer to Avignon.
Cham stayed Hindu.
Romans signed a treaty with the Triunes in winter 1634/35.
The Romans recognizing that trying to get money out of Elizabeth was hopeless; she doesn’t have any. Plus further torpedoing her only benefits Henri II and he doesn’t need the help.
If I remember correctly Catalan and Occitan are pretty closely related and the two regions have historically had close ties, so much so that the King of Aragon had originally been an almost liege to several dukes in the region till the Albigensian Crusade.
Indeed. I don’t think Roussillon became part of France until well into the modern period.
I like this because it gives the romans additional bases/naval power in the western med which essentially turns the med into a Roman Lake (mare nostrum) - if the Roman could get Gibraltar or a Morocco port like Tangier on the other side of the strait that would seal with deal
Idk I feel like the Roman effort would best spent in the Spice trade in the Indian oncean than fighting pirates 24/7
Yeah, there is no real reason for them to want the Western Mediterranean since with Carthage-Malta-Sicily-Calbria under Rhomania the Eastern Mediterranean, which is far more wealthy and has actual trade, is completely locked up. Anything else is best sent east to secure Rhoman strategic and economic goals while the Marinids and Spanish annoy each other.
The Romans have no reason to want to dominate the western Mediterranean, unless they desire to present themselves as an existential threat to Spain and Arles.
What do Rhomans think of Hungarians? I find it hard to believe that they would trust them considering their rocky history
They won't probably trust each other for a long while (at gut level), but for the Hungarians the alliance has already paid off handsomely (and will prevent German revanchism for a long time), same for the Romans, but in the longer run (a comfy buffer is always welcome). Clearly any veteran can't be asked to love the "allies".
I'm curious in the long term to see how that relationship develops. The Hungarians are basically the frontier of the Roman World in Central Europe, like the Vlachs in Eastern Europe. Whilst the Vlachs have a long history of friendship, I wonder if the Hungarians will develop anything of the kind.
I'd also be curious to see where the Hungarians ambitions go next. It might take a generation, but it doesn't seem absurd to me to see the Hungarians engineer a scheme to rise to power in Bohemia/SE Germany somehow, and dominate that region.
Relations are decidedly chilly right now. They’ll cooperate, but too many have died on both sides for there to be any trust for at least a couple of generations.
Of all the countries in Eastern Europe I wonder about the long term sustainability of Poland, it now has no, or almost no, coast line and no clear path for expansion as south brings the whole Rhomanian world on them and east and north does the same with the Russians. West may bee viable short term but long term Germany is just stronger and any short term gains will result in Germany aiming their sights for them.
Honestly long term Poland might be best off voluntarily joining either the rebranded HRE/German Empire or united Russian Empire as a highly autonomous kingdom.
Don't tell the Poles that, they'll make you a head shorter. And then they'll kill the Dowager Regent for selling Poland out and trigger a civil war.
What Poland needs is a strong defensive alliance to shore up one of their two fronts so that they can focus on one. Used to be that Poland's alliance with the HRE kept the west peaceful while freeing the Poles to invade the Russians and Lithuanians, but Theodor's suicide of the HRE has changed everything.
These are the current strategic conditions relevant to Poland:
-HRE collapsing and Germanies fending for themselves
-Scandinavians attacking Germany
-Scandinavian peace treaty with Prussia and Russians
-Carpathians and Sudetes separating Poland from war-exhausted Hungary and HRE-focused Czechs
-Roman ascendancy in recent years
-increasing Russian/Lithuanian recovery and cooperation
-Prussian war exhaustion
Given these circumstances, it's clear that the Germanies, Prussia, and Scandinavia pose no real threat to Poland in the foreseeable future while the easterners do. Thus Poland would be better off making a definitive and lasting peace treaty with the Zemsky Sobor member states to keep the Orthodox states peaceable. Outstanding territorial disputes have already been settled, so Poland can now work to improve trade and cultural ties with the east to discourage any desire for military adventures against Poland for fear of disrupting the profitable status quo. This will naturally draw Russian attention away from ideas of contentious western expansion and instead towards the Muslims and the relatively empty expanses of Siberia.
The strengthened economy and lack of threat to the east can then allow Poland to focus their military attention exclusively to the west, where they can strike out at the disunited Germanies and start taking strategic locations to shore up the western frontier. For instance Danzig/Gdansk (who owns this now?) is a key port city that'll allow Poland to cut a whole load of middle men out of the Polish grain export to Western Europe right when demand will start skyrocketing due to the wars and early capitalists turning the land over to cash crops. If the Polish Crown can dominate that it'll make them rich enough to solidify their position for generations to come.
From what I can tell all of Prussia and Pomerelia, including Danzig/Gdansk, is in Prussian and therefore future Russian hands. Plus North Germany is far from tired and can actually defend it's lands since it has been mostly untouched and by the time Poland recovers so too will have Germany.
Poland still has the port of Danzig/Gdansk, which is a major seaport exporting Polish grain to hungry Western Europe.
So was Serbia reintegrated into the domain of Rhomania post war of Rhoman Succession, or were they allowed independence? I mean, after the 'battle' of Thessaloniki its not like Rhomania couldn't have reconquered Serbia with such a modern military of the time. Unless they've been reduced to vassalage?
Btw,
@Frame, I believe you are missing the Southern Wu who have taken the Sydney area of Australia and the Northwest of Australia. I don't know if they delved into the interior other than consolidating some native tribes, otherwise I love the map. Good work!
Also,
@Basileus444 would it be possible for you to list the main books used for the writing of this truly awesome TL?
Serbia’s independent but in Rhomania’s orbit. Maintaining Serbia as a vassal seems like too much work in Constantinople’s opinion, and too easy to blow up in their faces.
I’ve used so many books in writing this; my personal library, which is 95%+ history, numbers in the hundreds. Although one book I reread recently (for Not the End) that has influenced an upcoming update is The Sicilian Vespers by Sir Steven Runciman.
I know it’s been hinted that the Romans are gonna go for Mesopotamia but I’m amazed after centuries of difficulty in Syria/Levantine and Egypt that anyone in the government/military would countenance such a move. Like if D3 says he’s gonna take some level of control there it’s cause for a coup
Same. Mesopotamia is only connected to core Rome by land with many angry muslims on it, Maghreb at least has sea lines of communication. At this tech level it's much easier empire to maintain.
No Roman official is seriously contemplating ruling Mesopotamia and its millions of Muslims directly. That is not on the cards.
Looks like Friedrich is shaping up to be the German Andreas Drakos. Now that peace has been made with Romans I'd imagine he'd venture West with his ever growing army, with south east Germany ravaged the best way to survive is to wage guerrilla warfare on the Triunes and seize their supplies.
Friedrich will certainly be becoming a much bigger player in the future.
We have an awful lot of Germans sitting around who are never going to get ransomed who might jump at the opportunity to switch loyalties and get sent to Mesopotamia in exchange for freedom.
Think of the refugees that happen as the Rhine Wars, opening act, deepens. But will Germans be willing to move to a land controlled by the same people that burned S. Germany?
When it’s a choice between pride and livelihood I expect a decent percentage choose the second. Particularly from the Germans on the Rhine. The Triunes are about to do a number on them and they have a lot less pride to swallow going to the Romans.
Some of the German captives may end up in Mesopotamia, although one idea I have is that many end up being sent to Egypt to bolster the Nile Egyptian population.
Rhineland Germans aren’t going to be immigrating to Rhomania. That is quite the long haul and Rhomania isn’t going to make any efforts to make it attractive to Catholic immigrants. That policy of Helena I is long dead. Furthermore while war will naturally disrupt the population, the Triunes will be making an effort to keep the local populace in place. A depopulated province is a worthless province.
Does Rhomania have an official flag?
I haven’t given it much thought. But I think an official flag should have at most two elements, the double-headed eagle and the tetragrammatic cross, and probably just one of the two.
I got bored and made a flag for Egypt
Why would it have a pagan symbol like an Ankh?
It might not be identified as a "pagan" symbol after millennia of Christian presence in the region which has reduced it to a cultural symbol rather than a religious one.
EDIT: I was going to add that a version with the (a?) Coptic cross would be interesting to see as well, but at least according to Wikipedia, the Ankh has been used by Egyptian christians more or less as long as they've existed.
True I should prolly incorporate the coptic cross instead
That's a really neat bit of history that it survived as a Christian symbol. Although the provided time on that article has a massive gap between the 6th century and when Egypt was reconquered ITTL. It may not have survived as a Christian symbol and to be honest it wouldn't make too much sense to feature a cross. Most flags from the medieval period were heraldic and not national, displaying royal arms rather than national symbols. You could have multiple 'flags' for one country, as the modern concept of a unified national banner as an object of immense importance in national identity didn't really exist. It'd be one of many. You would have a symbol that symbolized the king, which could be on a banner, a symbol which symbolized the country in an abstract way but the royal symbols would be more promenade.
Egypt's 'flag' insofar as it would exist would probably be something reflective of its current ruling dynasty that incorporated local symbology to demonstrate they are a cadet branch or an Egyption branch or what have you. For this the Ankh or a Coptic Cross could work if they wanted to use it but it's more likely the royal banner would incorporate some sort of local animal or religious symbol that represents the country. For example England with the Cross of St. George, for its patron saint. A coptic cross would represent the copts, and not Egypt, while the Ankh would be of questionable use as symbol unless B444 wants it to have remained a Christian appropriated symbol. The Lion would be far better. It symbolizes St. Mark the Evangelist, Egypt's Patron Saint, and could hold powerful symbolic connections of Andreas Niketas 'reclaiming' him from Venice, to which the dynasty has familial connection. I'd figure that the flag of Egypt would thus be the royal arms either quartered with lions or bearing some modification to incorporate lions.
Although that being said I doubt any of us are graphics designers who could do something that complex so don't think I'm asking for it to be made.
I think the flag of the Egyptian Komnenid Despots should be something like an eagle on the back of a rhinoceros. It was a rhinoceros during the triumph after the fall of Venice that inspired Demetrios Komnenos, Andreas Niketas’ eldest son, with his lifelong love of all things African.
Yeah true, I wonder if the Sidori could incorporate parts of the timurid flag into their banner?
About that supposed Spanish Armada about to attack the western Roman colonies, you know, it would be a very perfect career oppurtunity for a certain Leo Kalameros to finally have his day in the sun, would be doubly ironic if he ends up as the Horatio Nelson of TTL. On that topic, I can see it biting the Spanish in the ass big time, it probably doesn't help that most of the Spanish npbles are pro-Roman(?)
Regarding the Sideroi's banner, I'd see some of the Timurid elements incoporated to their own coat of arms, as well as the usual double-headed eagle to represent their status as rulers of the Empire. Of course the Empire's own flag will always he the double headed eagle with the Chi-Rho symbol within said eagle, maybe throw in the shield of Hellas in to represent their Greek side for extra measure no?
I made it to be the Sidoros family banner that would be used as a flag of sorts during the time period. I definitely did get carried away though lmao
I don’t think the Timurid symbolism would be too overt. Sometimes less is more, like having an ‘iron gray’ background.
The double headed eagle was introduced by the Comnenes and then the Lascarids had it carrying sword in its left talon and globe on the right. Given who ruled the empire TTL I don't really see it changing. Lascarid double headed eagle in the imperial colours, gold eagle and purple background should do for the imperial flag.
Now army and regional flags will have quite a bit more variety I suppose. I'm partial myself to the Greek infantry flag, with St. George as seen here
https://spz.army.gr/sites/spz.army....ge_full/public/photos/572tp.jpg?itok=y4BvcWZS showing up. And for the North Epirote flag here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auton...rus#/media/File:Stamp_Epirus_1914_5l_flag.jpg Both are likely to show up. And the Kallergis family
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kallergis_family which is likely to be quite prominent given its holdins in Crete and role in anti-Venetian revolts had a flag that is nearly the same with the modern Greek one despite several centuries separation. Quite a bit of coincidence. The other military saints (St Theodore, St Demetrios, St Mamas) should also be pretty popular I'd expect.
Agree on the Imperial flag. There’s more opportunity for variety on the army and regional level as you pointed out. One idea I had for the Thrakesian theme banner was a blue background with seven stars on it, since I believe the seven churches of Asia are all located in the theme.
I wonder what the flags for the Kapitanates in the east will be?
Haven’t given any thought to that.
The Spanish Armada is heading to the Roman East. We know Leo Kalameros is currently in the East fighting to assist the Japanese....
Let's say Kalameros uses said conflict to catapult himself to leading a fleet (maybe lead the fleet of the Eastern Katepano?). How about atl Napoleon defeats a combined Spanish-Triune fleet in an atl Battle of Trafalgar?
Leo’s still just the captain of a sloop, so it’ll be a while before he’s a fleet commander.
I wonder what the Rhomans think of Sparta and Spartan culture? Do they favor them over the Athenians due to the Rhoman view of Democracy?
They’re viewed a bit better than the Athenians, but they’re viewed as a bit disturbing. The militarism is over-the-top and not in a good way.
Spain is already not the best shape financially losing those ships will make it worse. Arles is already not intervening and the Bernese just signed a treaty with the Triunes.
If I'm Henry I would send word to D3 these ships are coming.
Naw, if Henry does that, he'd probably be tipping his hand to the Spanish, all D3 would have to do is let them know that the Triunes did that. That could be enough to have the Spanish go "Hang on"
My line of thinking is tell D3 the ships are coming and have the armada suffer a major defeat. When the Spanish figure out Henri told the Romans his response is "Yes I told them. What are you going to do? You're accord allies in the Bernese League have a treaty with me and Arles is anti-war. You're broke, have no fleet and now the Romans are about to go to war with you over the line because of your actions."
The "Spanish Armada" may actually be the first effect of the roman policy in the west that may long term once again make the romans more pragmatic as they now have made another nation their enemy when it wasn´t really necessary and convenient
Besides, i think you´re underestimating too much the potential damage Spain can inflict to roman holdings if they really want to, especially when the romans will have their hands full with the Ottomans for the next few years
I actually think this is going to cement the Roman view of “the latins” as treacherous and not worth interacting with. The Spanish were essentially a the one “Latin” kingdom that even half way supported them during the war. And here they are sending an Armada into the East when they know the Romans are distracted rebuilding and preparing for the war with the Ottomans. I don’t believe that is the logical response, but neither is the Spanish Kings desire for revenge against the Romans for his son.
I actually expect the Romans will be forewarned and waiting for the Spanish. You can’t exactly hide a fleet leaving port so one spy helping load the ships or just sitting around the right dockside bar is all you need to know what’s coming.
Yeah I think this Spanish force will at least leave Rhomania with a bloody nose and at worst will significantly hinder the Rhoman conquest of Island Asia
That new view may well happen and may result in Rhomania becoming more isolationist in Europe as foretold as they are not immune to a "me first" mentality. However it is nonsensical just accusing the spanish of not having a logical response after what the romans did to the HRE after reaching Munich.
Actually this spanish response is very sensical considering that Spain and Rhomania are major rivals in the East and eventual gains will be very popular among the merchant classes.
He won’t have to the Romans will know it’s coming. At the minimum we are talking a couple dozen major warships; say 30 SOL for arguments sake; this will take a major effort that will be visible to all in Lisbon including any Roman ambassadors who will promptly send word back to Constantinople.
Spain isn’t declaring war on Rhomania so there are going to be Roman officials, merchants, and pilgrims in the city who will make note of this. Given the LOC Rhomania-in-the-East will have a pretty good idea who is coming and in what strength long before the Spanish reach them. Whether they will be able to concentrate a fleet against this force quickly is another question and one I can’t even speculate on. We know RitE has native shipbuilding capable of building and crewing SOL in the range of 50-65 gunners but how many can they build in a year and how are their currently?
Another interesting question is will Spain be able to supply and equip this force once it reaches the east. By this I mean say they get there and fight a battle, it ends up inconclusive with each side losing a couple SOL and a bunch more damaged. Spain puts into one of their ports; how quickly can Spain repair, resupply, and recrew their fleet compared to Rome? Cuz Rome has multiple strongholds in Taprobane and Malaya where there are large amounts of “native” Romans to draw on while Spain will be relying on reinforcement all the way from Lisbon. If the discrepancy in industrial capability is of a similar amount than this armada is going to turn out just as well as the original in the long term and could signal the high point of Spanish power in the east.
This armada though nearly explains at least one of the financial shocks Rome is going to suffer through. There is going to be at least one season where Roman access to spices from the east is going to be badly disrupted. On top of adjusting to the new taxation system a sudden loss of a few Spice Island Convoys will lead to a significant short term dearth of capital.
Henri wouldn’t need to warn the Romans. Any Office of Barbarians agent in Lisbon would notice the outfitting of the fleet and send word back to Constantinople. Plus Henri would want the fleet to sail and cause as much damage to the Romans as possible. That’s his modus operandi: get his opponents to fight and weaken each other.
Don’t underestimate the Spanish fleet. The western powers rely mainly on armed merchantmen in the east, so even a comparatively small number of dedicated warships makes a huge difference. See the Wooden Walls update for more detail.
As
@JSC pointed out, the Romans have certain logistical advantages that will play an important role. The Spanish expedition is inspired after Suffren’s OTL expedition to India.
The Spanish don't have a logical reason. That's sort of the point of this debacle.
Spain and Rhome both acted rashly and for petty reasons of revenge. This is a direct parallel. One acts in retaliation for damages in Macedonia and other places, while the other acts in retaliation for the death of a favourite son. Spain is being hypocritical by saying that Rhome, for all it's much vaunted diplomatic skill, makes such a stupid decision by being blind to the greater foe while Spain itself is doing exactly that by acting emotionally, pettily, and lashing out against people who aren't really enemies.
The point is that these heads of state are humans with human emotions and human mistakes. They are not perfectly logical actors. They can and do let emotions, mistakes, xenophobia, and hippocracy guide their actions for no good reason other than the guy with the power said so. Just like real life. I quite enjoy how petty acts ITTL can have great consequences in weird ways. It keeps the timeline from being predictable and feels much more real.
This is part of what makes this timeline/story feel so real. So many timelines have everyone being perfectly rational actors even when making mistakes. Here they act on emotion and imperfect information or are too smart by half.
For some fun naming conventions this coming eastern war I nominate War of Ferdinands Grief/ War of Grief....it has a nice parallel to the War of Jenkins Ear in that it’s a almost strictly colonial war whose causus belli is really just an excuse for other interests...with Portuguese Traders taking the role of the British South Sea Trading company.
Thank you. This is something I consider extremely important. These characters don’t have hindsight. They’re acting in the moment. They’re emotional, biased, or just plain wrong. Even when they’re acting rational, they may be working with inaccurate or incomplete data, or cherry-picking the data points that agree with their worldview. I share the annoyance with TLs that have everybody asking just so logically; people don’t work that way.
I think this is a huge benefit that Rome has over the other colonial powers which hasn't really born full fruit yet. By being more meritocratic and practical in their treatment of colonial subjects the Romans are building colonies in the East which a) have better reason to be truly loyal in that they increasingly think of themselves as being "Roman" and have a very real stake in the empire vs just being just colonial peons and b) are entrusted with war material production and military assignments that other powers would not give to "natives" meaning that local industrial and military capacity of Rome in the East should be better than many other colonies both in this timeline and in our own.
It is a big benefit, although this is still very much in the early stage. The tree at this point isn’t very big.
I forget, do the Copts actually speak Coptic in every day life ttl?
It should have been saved from oblivion. They sure don't speak arabic, while many probably are versed in greek. Speaking greek was actually a bar to clear to get a position in Alexandria a while back (doesn't make any sense if greek is the common tongue) before the handoff.
If I recall correctly the despots of Egypt had made an effort to revive and strengthen the language when they first took over during Andreas' reign.
The Katepanoi/Despots of Egypt did make a really big effort to revive the Coptic language and culture. At this stage it is the common language of the Copts, although knowledge of Greek is considered essential for upper and middle class Cops.
