Seems like the Germans are going to come out of this just as hardened as the Rhomans once this is all done and over with.
There’s going to be a lot of bitterness when the dust finally settles, that’s for sure.
Wow, they just keep getting away from the Romans.
I admit their near-escapes at this point are a bit of a personal joke for me at this point.
The schadenfreude is incredible. How liberating it is to read the Wittelsbach Downfall.
All for the best really. The farther they run the further their legitimacy falls. The most striking image of the Wittelsbachs in the German zeitgeist now is that of the Imperial Family abandoning everyone and donning peasant garbs like cowards. If they actually got captured a lot of the German resentment against the Wittelsbachs will get clouded over by their hatred of the Romans. Can't have that.
I know it'll be terribad for European geopolitical power balance, but I really want Henry to sit Theodor and Elizabeth down and make them watch as he's crowned the Holy Roman Emperor.
EDIT: I'm surprised that the Romans didn't just execute all males in that village to get Theodor.
Yeah, Henri II as Holy Roman Emperor would be like Charles V on steroids.
If the Romans had known for a fact that Theodor was in Kissing, they would’ve torn the place apart. But they were scouting the whole area, and getting tied up in massacring peasants for no apparent good reason within a day’s march of an enemy force that outnumbers you comfortably isn’t the best plan.
@Basileus444 I know how you feel, my last employment has been terminated 2 months ago. But I am sure you will find soon another job.
My condolences. Thank you. And good luck to you as well.
That’s unfortunate B444, but I’m sure someone with your skills and dedication will bounce back soon enough!
If the Romans are going to leave Southern Germany as a burnt out husk then I don’t think they’ll be supporting armies anytime soon. Will that leave Northern Germany as the main theatre of this war? The Wittelsbach hunker down, severed from the rest of their territories whilst everyone else dukes it out?
Northern Germany is about to get its own issues.
The one condition I want to see is the complete and total renunciation of usage of the terms “emperor of the Romans” or “holy Roman emperor” by the Germans.
That would be nice. Although if Theodor/Elizabeth agreed to that, Ottokar and/or Henri would just use that as proof the Wittelsbachs have abdicated and promptly revive the HRE under their own auspices.
Nah. Henry is a scheming, backstabbing "Spider" leading a nation chock-full of smarmy, insufferable pricks. I can't ever wish anything good to him or his people.
I'm firmly #teamelizabeth. Theodor can go to hell.
Henri’s fun to write, but I definitely don’t like him personally.
Definitely #teamelizabeth
I was really quite disappointed to find out that Count Ernst Rüdiger von Starhemburg was an historical personage and not a stealth reference to Rudi von Sternberg. I expected him to do something clever and dastardly, dammit!
But also, I am absolutely loving this. Don't know how I didn't find it sooner.
Also, how have 50 years of Doctor Who writers never noticed that the Emperors (OTL) literally called themselves "Time Lord" for centuries?
Probably the usual ignorance of those educated in the West of the existence of Byzantium. I’m always surprised when people have actually heard of it; it’s rather rare in my experience.
Wait, who is leading the Triune kingdoms again? Last one I remember was the really cocky kid of King Arthur who wanted to proclaim the Triune as Sovereign of the Seas.
Its current head is Henry the Spider, aka the guy that manipulated Theodor into invading the Romans. Fun guy.
Oh, and did the son of King Arthur go through with proclaiming the Triune kingdom Sovereign of the Seas while his dad was reigning? Its been a while since I've gone through the entire story
It was after Arthur died. Arthur was smart enough to engage in soft-power diplomacy, so put clamps on stupid ideas like that. His son and successors though got extreme victory diseases after the Triple Monarchy made such a miraculous recovery from its low point, and got around to doing everything to show off their superiority over anyone and everyone.
They did the whole ‘Sovereign of the Seas’ thing, although it’s rather questionable how much real difference it made on the ground. That’s all taken straight from OTL. England tried to do the same thing even back when it was still clearly a 2nd-rate power.
And this is why I am looking forward to seeing their eventual comeuppance in the near future, especially if Nostradamus' prediction will be fulfilled. The image of Theodor in a peasant's garb is hilarious. I wonder if the Rhomans will end up making mosaics of that story as a propaganda tool.
They will, but first they’re going to kick themselves repeatedly upon learning how close they’d been to nabbing him again.
I'm also #teamelizabeth. Don't get me wrong she's not totally innocent but you have to admit the Rhomans treating her like shit simply "cuz she's Latin" was wrong. Theodor was dumb/stupid enough to start the war but at least Elizabeth is trying to end it by essentially giving everything the Rhomans want sans her brother. I just find it tragic that the peace deal she sent was too little, too late and that the Rhomans are too blinded by revenge to understand basic Realpolitik and realize that the Triunes are the real enemies not the Germans.
One could say that about the Germans being blind to RealPolitik in invading too.
However, whilst the coastal regions have the Triunes as the enemy, after their behaviour historically - the Balkans 100% have a different perspective. Further, the Germans do have an easier job projecting power into the Roman Empire proper, and time and again the Romans did enough to stop the war, but not punish them. There is a Realpolitik in allowing that emotional release that the pillaging of Germany creates, it creates that sense of dread and sense of consequence that stopping the war after winning a battle just doesn't.
If the war goes on much further, there needs to be a reason beyond simply punishment though. I'm all for tit-for-tat, but it's expensive in terms of time. If Hungary wasn't getting Vienna I'd suggest that, but there are other locations that could be worth taking in a peace, especially if they've been depopulated as a result of the devastation. Something like Salzburg - able to hit Bavaria/Germany relatively easily if needs be if garrisoned, the other side of the Alps so it is the first target if a new war happens, and can be fortified as such, but is a clear threat in a war if one comes. It is also a way to have some regional power projection if the Romans need to be able to intervene (say if the Triunes invade?)
Personally I'd have preferred Vienna but that's gone in the treaty with Hungary for sure, so Salzburg, or Rosenheim could work a similar purpose. The key is that there needs to be something, some reminder of Roman power - even if it is a mix of dread, potential succour, and a reminder of a defeat. It's certainly more mild than the treaty if the Romans had lost. Perhaps even have it be the site of the HRE title being removed. Get yourself a big old statue of the HRE bowing in a sack towards the Emperor, etc.
But if there is no strategy with the raiding in the Realpolitik, then it shouldn't last much longer. Though I'd not be averse to the Romans being super weird and either invite or 'invite' Germans to be settled in the more depopulated regions of the Empire. More practical than just burning things, and it can't hurt to expand the Nile German population, or duplicate it with Euphrates and Tigris Germans.
The Roman desire for vengeance is understandable, but in the context of TTL Europe, not necessarily wise. It’s definitely going to come back to bite them.
What is going on in the HRE in the latest update is very reminiscent of OTL 30 Years War and its ravages, with massive areas depopulated due to the long conflict. I'm not really seeing how things will get better in Germany in the immediate future with Triunes, Hungarians, Danes and Romans destroying the countryside all around. Another OTL allusion that comes to mind is the partitions of Poland and "the Deluge", when Poland-Lithuania was having a bad time thanks to your friendly neighborhood Sweden, not sure if someone mentioned it earlier already, but I am getting some Partitioning vibes here as well.
Looking forward to how things are proceeding.
Also best of luck to B444 with the job situation, been in a similar spot before, it is stressful and sucky, but I'm sure something will come up from all that hassle.
One group of Roman raiders and one Roman campaign is not even remotely comparable to thirty years of large-scale warfare, systemic persecution, pillaging, and attempted religious genocide. Don't be so hasty to compare this to one of the most destructive conflicts in human history, at least in terms of percentage of lost life.
It’s not there yet, and I can’t say if it will get to 30YW territory, just because that bar is so high, but this is just the beginning.
And so the Romans brought with them vengeance and sorrow and visited the four horsemen on the german nation. War and Death we've already seen, Faminine and Pestilence are sure to follow.
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Sorry to hear about your job B444. Good luck on finding a new one!
Yeah, Germany’s not going to be a fun place to live for the next few years ITTL.
Hm, I believe that the Triunes are portrayed so negatively is that
@Basileus444 has stated in the past that he hates the British Empire, feeling disgust with their actions and their arrogance, I'm guessing that he's using his knowledge of how smug, arrogant and plain punchable the British empire was and uses that as a basis for how the Triunes act.
The OTL British Empire is definitely the character template for the Triunes, and a lot of what the Triunes do and will do is pulled from the OTL British Empire handbook. Although most of my ire really started from how this forum so often whitewashes and sugarcoats and justifies the British Empire.
My fear for #TeamElizabeth is that the tangible objective that Demetrios may realize is in reach is breaking Wittelsbach power permanently. If the HRE title is still elected, I can picture a Diet held at ambrolar-point.
It’s still elected. The Wittelsbachs have just had a lock on it, in the same way as the Habsburgs did IOTL.
Even thought i just created an account on the site and gotten on board patreon I just wanted to shime in and say that I have been enjoying this timeline for over three years now. So i wish you the best of luck with finding another occupation.
Thank you for your support. I appreciate it.
