Alternate Colonisers for Different Countries

Going to try and see if this works, basically, name a country and come up with an alternate coloniser and say why it may have happened.

I'll start

French Australia

Why: French explorers, some time before Captain Cook and co landed at Botany bay, actually had discovered the Continent, or at least Tasmania, but decided not to colonise the island or the continent, but just as easily could have.
 
American Liberia in Namibia, I'm gonna say it until my face turns red.

An Oorlam-Baster-Americo alliance.
 
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Mansa Abubakr II Keita finds the Americas. Mali grows rich and powerful, and eventually invades north, and conquers a massive empire stretching from the Atlantic Coast to Rome to Ethiopia.
 
Regarding Africa:

Mainland Portugal's fear of becoming a Brazilian appanage goes real as Pedro IV/I decides to rule from Brazil instead, and Brazil ends up acquiring the Portuguese African colonies.

Russia somehow decides to repeat the crazy schemes of Courland, and colonizes Gambia.

Britain ultimately decides to abandon the Cape to Cairo project (maybe the Boers end up successfully cutting them off), and Portugal fills the void, connecting Angola with Mozambique and achieving the Pink Map.

Spanish Maghreb? IIRC, this could have happened if the Spanish had captured Algiers in 1775. After the loss of Latin America, they could decide to focus on North Africa instead.

Libya could become a British colony, since it was already flanked by Malta and Egypt.

A Greek Cyrenaica was covered by @Reagent on a map.

The Scandinavian countries could also acquire some budget-sized colonies along the coasts.
 
Portuguese Zambia/Zimbabwe

Why: The Portuguese have had a mild presence in the area since the 1500s, when the early prazeiros traded with Mutapa and intervened in local politics. If British interests in South Africa never become that compelling (Britain is never entrusted with the Cape, Cecil Rhodes and the rest of the South Africa lobby fall down the stairs/focus on another colonial area) or Britain is blocked by some (French-led?) diplomatic alliance, they might never pressure Portugal to drop its "Pink Map" claims on the area between Angola and Mozambique.

Dutch Angola

Why: The Dutch conquered Luanda for a little bit during the 1600s and established a fragile anti-Portuguese alliance with Queen Nzinga's nascent Matamba state.
 
Let us not forget Asia, either:

A French India could end up wildly different from a British India, especially if the French crown allows interracial marriages, as happened in New France.

A German Philippines would also be interesting, especially if acquired in the early 1880's: it could compel the French to extract more concessions from China, such as Taiwan.

I'm not sure, but a Qing Chinese controlled Burma was a possibility in the 1760's, what with there having been a large military campaign against the country at that time. If the Qing manage to get access to the Indian Ocean and Southeast Asia, the empire would be radically altered (more naval buildup could result in the formation of a "southern" lobby within the court, and could also make things much harder for the British if the Opium Wars still happen).

I'd also be very pleased if a Somali sultanate managed to colonize the Maldives. It's a weird fetish of mine.
 

Deleted member 114175

Yuan Dynasty conquers Japan, explores the Pacific and creates Mongol colonies in the Americas.

Along similar lines, a Jurchen Empire separate from China that colonizes across the Pacific and colonizes much of Latin America.
 
Somali Western "Oceania": Socotra down to Sofala east to the Maldives/Laccadives with Seychelles, Mauritius, etc... with coastal Madagascar and Janjira (which OTL was founded by Africans and maintained even against the Portuguese).
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Brandenburger (later Prussian) Hudson's Bay-

Hudson's Bay/Rupert's land was first colonized during the late 17th century era when Brandenburg was trying out colonial projects (they finally gave up on the last of them in the 1710s or 1720s).

It was under British auspices in OTL, but under the pioneering guidance of two Frenchmen, Grossiliers and Radisson, who went free agent after the authorities in New France tried to sideline them.

In the ATL, instead of making their way to Boston after being pissed off, they make their way to to New Amsterdam and Europe, looking for investors and backing.

They happen to find their first takers in Brandenburg.

Brandenburg charters some voyages a company and some trading posts up around Hudson's Bay. The colony is under the Brandenburgian Elector's authority, although its staff and personnel are multinational (English, French, Dutch, Scandinavians, of course Amerindians are on staff in addition to Brandenburg Germans).

However, unlike other colonies, Brandenburg-Prussia holds on to Rupert's land through the 18th century. While it has value, it is remote enough that strong, capable powers like England and France never make taking or holding the land a priority in this century. By the late 18th century, the personnel at the outposts are proportionately more Prussian. More of the hinterland is explored, and by the 1790s there are some attempts to help food self-sufficiency through grain farming in some of the prairie lands of the Hudson Bay watershed. Post-Napoleonic wars, the population from Prussia and other Zollverein states in the territory expands further, and Prussia advances a claim (in competition with Spain, Russia, Britain and the US) to the Oregon country.

Prussia pulls decisively ahead in terms of numbers of outposts and pioneers in Rupert's land and then the Oregon country through the 1830s and 1840s....
 

Deleted member 114175

However, unlike other colonies, Brandenburg-Prussia holds on to Rupert's land through the 18th century. While it has value, it is remote enough that strong, capable powers like England and France never make taking or holding the land a priority in this century. By the late 18th century, the personnel at the outposts are proportionately more Prussian. More of the hinterland is explored, and by the 1790s there are some attempts to help food self-sufficiency through grain farming in some of the prairie lands of the Hudson Bay watershed. Post-Napoleonic wars, the population from Prussia and other Zollverein states in the territory expands further, and Prussia advances a claim (in competition with Spain, Russia, Britain and the US) to the Oregon country.

Prussia pulls decisively ahead in terms of numbers of outposts and pioneers in Rupert's land and then the Oregon country through the 1830s and 1840s....
Might as well have the Prussians buy Louisiana too, that would make it more feasible to settle the Oregon Country.
 
Dutch Australia: de Houtman or Thjissen (in 1619 and 1627 respectively) land at OTL's Perth with damaged ships, and while repairs are made decide to send an expedition up the Swan river. Going deep inland, the expedition discovers Australian sandalwood, and the VOC creates a colony at the mouth of the Swan River from which to exploit this resource.

The Dutch presence is small and concentrated; as Australian sandalwood must be dug up and dragged rather than chopped to get the bulk of usable fragrant wood, their work crews consist of Dutch overseers, African and Asian slaves to dig, Aborigine guides paid in European goods and tobacco to find copses of trees, and teams of donkeys and/or Java ponies to pull the trees.

Over the next few decades, the supply of easily-accessed sandalwood becomes exhausted. Java ponies are adopted by Aborigine tribes, dramatically changing their world and driving them to reconstitute themselves as new, creole cultures with influence from escaped slaves and renegade whites. Some of these creole peoples become pastoralists, selling sheep and cattle to the Dutch, while others remain hunter-gatherers, and dig up the more isolated and scattered sandalwood trees to drag back to the Swan river to sell.

The colony becomes more agriculturally focused, with Dutch colonists IITL splitting 50/50 between South Africa and southwestern Australia. The Noongar are conquered, and either assimilated as wage laborers or driven north and east to the creole cultures. As the Netherlands falls from power and loses European wars, the Australian colony is eventually swapped out in exchange for the return of a more profitable captured colony-perhaps a sugar-producing Caribbean Island, for example.

Some Dutch move inland, but conflict with highly mobile, well armed mounted Aborigines limits their ability to settle. The discovery of gold near Kalgoorlie, however, does drive the new colonial master to "pacify the savages", although it is not until the mid-19th century that the mounted Aborigines are brought to heel-and even then, many tribes are able to keep large tracts of semi-arid grazing land in exchange for ceding mineral rights, thus keeping their (obviously very altered from OTL) traditional way of life.

Australian gold makes the colonizer rich, but the Dutch resentful as they are locked out of power, and in the early 20th century, war begins between the Dutch and the new master as the Dutch seek to create an independent Republic of Eendrachtsland.

French South: ITTL, the colonists of Charlesfort decide to remain in South Carolina (bad weather preventing them from going south, perhaps?) long enough to buy a few beaver pelts from the local Native Americans. Fur trade starts early, with the French colonizing several areas along the coast of the southeast and buying pelts and Indian slaves from the local tribes. The Spanish burn a few forts, Indians destroy a few more, but a few survive and from them a large French population develops, fueled by refugees from the Wars of Religion. Eventually the French start to import African slaves to grow tobacco, rice, and indigo and expand westward, driving the Native Americans onto religious missions where they are protected and/or exploited by Catholic monks or French Protestant missionaries. The French presence is light on the ground, with a relatively small number of aristocrats governing vast plantations worked by African slaves, with the small space between slave and aristocrat taken up mostly by mixed-race "gens de couler libre". With a non-white majority that is at best severely discriminated against and at worse brutally repressed, it is only a matter of time until one of the perennial slave rebellions really catches fire.

Chinese Luzon: To hear the Lim Royal Family tell it, Limahong was driven to piracy because his critique of Ming corruption drove him out of polite society, and into a life of banditry. But surely, the illustrious Limahong was a well-read, well-educated Chinese man; how else can one explain his conquest of Manila Bay, where he rallied Chinese merchants and local Ilocano peoples to build a fortified state which could resist Chinese naval attacks? Oh sure, mistakes were made, such as the massacre down to the last man of Spanish prisoners when their expeditions first arrived to the region, but surely this was the result not of Limahong's leadership but of his savage Ilocano allies, who would soon peacefully acquiesce to Sinification in the interest of creating a heavenly harmony in Limahong's kingdom.

Certainly the Lim family loved China, for when the Famine Wars in the south and the Imjin War in the north caused the destabilization of the Ming in the 1590's which sent them into a fatal downward spiral, did they not send out fleets to fight rebels and the Japanese? Of course, mistakes were made, and some towns were razed and the population robbed and enslaved, but the fog of war causes such unfortunate miscommunications to occur where one gets confused about who the enemy is. Indeed, in the greatest show of loyalty, was it not the Lim family that sent their ships to the Yangtze to stop the foreign invaders there, thus saving the Ming dynasty in the south? And was it not the Lim family who pledged their men as bodyguards to the last Ming princes? And when these last Ming princes kept accidentally falling down stairs and onto knives, spears, and pistols thus ending the Ming Dynasty, was it not Lim Chen who stepped up, restoring order to southern China and claiming the mandate of Heaven for the Chinese?

Yes, it must be that the Lims were ordained by Heaven for their goodness and righteousness, saving southern China from foreign domination and granting the pearl of the South China Seas, Luzon, to the Chinese cultural sphere. It cannot be that they were a clan of desperate pirates who failed upward onto the Imperial Throne over heaps of corpses. That would just not do.
 
How about just completely switching the French and Spanish? Imagine a Spanish Quebec and a French Mexico.

Well, it would be quite weird, due to the fact that Americas were discovered by a Castillan expedition. You would need a French expedition to discover Antilles, and Spain to be in troubles until France has signed some Catholic stuff
 
Basically in this weird little world I thought up in 2 minutes the french are the ones who go west instead. So anything that the Spanish did the French did here. Sadly this alternate reality won’t have the luxury of having tacos.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
French South: ITTL, the colonists of Charlesfort decide to remain in South Carolina (bad weather preventing them from going south, perhaps?) long enough to buy a few beaver pelts from the local Native Americans. Fur trade starts early, with the French colonizing several areas along the coast of the southeast and buying pelts and Indian slaves from the local tribes. The Spanish burn a few forts, Indians destroy a few more, but a few survive and from them a large French population develops, fueled by refugees from the Wars of Religion. Eventually the French start to import African slaves to grow tobacco, rice, and indigo and expand westward, driving the Native Americans onto religious missions where they are protected and/or exploited by Catholic monks or French Protestant missionaries. The French presence is light on the ground, with a relatively small number of aristocrats governing vast plantations worked by African slaves, with the small space between slave and aristocrat taken up mostly by mixed-race "gens de couler libre". With a non-white majority that is at best severely discriminated against and at worse brutally repressed, it is only a matter of time until one of the perennial slave rebellions really catches fire.

Cool - do the the French even bother with Acadia and the St. Lawrence here? Or do English or Dutch or Swedes get there first? Does the Charlesfort colony expand north to encompass the Chesapeake region before English arrive in the same region?

Dutch Australia: de Houtman or Thjissen (in 1619 and 1627 respectively) land at OTL's Perth with damaged ships, and while repairs are made decide to send an expedition up the Swan river. Going deep inland, the expedition discovers Australian sandalwood, and the VOC creates a colony at the mouth of the Swan River from which to exploit this resource.

The Dutch presence is small and concentrated; as Australian sandalwood must be dug up and dragged rather than chopped to get the bulk of usable fragrant wood, their work crews consist of Dutch overseers, African and Asian slaves to dig, Aborigine guides paid in European goods and tobacco to find copses of trees, and teams of donkeys and/or Java ponies to pull the trees.

Over the next few decades, the supply of easily-accessed sandalwood becomes exhausted. Java ponies are adopted by Aborigine tribes, dramatically changing their world and driving them to reconstitute themselves as new, creole cultures with influence from escaped slaves and renegade whites. Some of these creole peoples become pastoralists, selling sheep and cattle to the Dutch, while others remain hunter-gatherers, and dig up the more isolated and scattered sandalwood trees to drag back to the Swan river to sell.

The colony becomes more agriculturally focused, with Dutch colonists IITL splitting 50/50 between South Africa and southwestern Australia. The Noongar are conquered, and either assimilated as wage laborers or driven north and east to the creole cultures. As the Netherlands falls from power and loses European wars, the Australian colony is eventually swapped out in exchange for the return of a more profitable captured colony-perhaps a sugar-producing Caribbean Island, for example.

Some Dutch move inland, but conflict with highly mobile, well armed mounted Aborigines limits their ability to settle. The discovery of gold near Kalgoorlie, however, does drive the new colonial master to "pacify the savages", although it is not until the mid-19th century that the mounted Aborigines are brought to heel-and even then, many tribes are able to keep large tracts of semi-arid grazing land in exchange for ceding mineral rights, thus keeping their (obviously very altered from OTL) traditional way of life.

Australian gold makes the colonizer rich, but the Dutch resentful as they are locked out of power, and in the early 20th century, war begins between the Dutch and the new master as the Dutch seek to create an independent Republic of Eendrachtsland.

very cool - so, without it being specific, I take it that another power (all I can think of are England or France), take political control of Australia by the late 18th or early 19th century.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Pre-modern:

Bantu Sahara, Sahel, Sudan

Khoisan Congo & Serengeti

Navajo, Pueblo, Comanche or Apache successor state to Aztecs in Mesoamerica

Turkic Korea (possibly with Turkic Japan, to boot)

Austronesian Japan, northeast Asia & Aleutians

Inuit Lappland

Korean colonized Taiwan

Vietnamese Palawan, North Borneo or Luzon

Chinese Bokhara, Khiva (and maybe Kazakhstan)

Turkic Russia

Finnish Russia

Slavic Denmark or Sweden

Vlach/Romance Illyria

South Slavic Romania

Early modern, classic "Age of Discovery" and beyond:

Austrian Algeria (actually discussed in a thread with "Algeria" in the title)

HRE or Hanseatic Mexico

Japanese south India

Italian city-state or Kingdom with Caribbean possessions or Manhattan

Sephardic New England

In the Americas (and Africa & Indian Ocean) - Swap out Spanish and Portuguese colonies (Spanish Brazil, Portuguese La Plata to California), English and French colonies (French seaboard, English Canada and interior) and Dutch and Swedish colonies (Dutch Delaware, Swedish Hudson)

French Egypt, anytime before 1900

American North Borneo

Italian North Borneo

Austrian North Borneo

Prussian New Zealand
 
Cool - do the the French even bother with Acadia and the St. Lawrence here? Or do English or Dutch or Swedes get there first? Does the Charlesfort colony expand north to encompass the Chesapeake region before English arrive in the same region?

I doubt the French bother much with Acadia and St. Lawrence. One cool possibility is the more maritime-focused Dutch creating New Holland on the St. Lawrence, and keeping the colony isolated from the French/English power struggle along the east coast-resulting in a Dutch Canada perched atop a mixed French-English eastern seaboard.

For Jamestown, I definitely see conflict-perhaps directly, or perhaps TTL's version of Wahunsenacah or Opchanacanough are armed with French iron weapons with which they destroy *Jamestown-or, perhaps, they ally with the English to defend against the depredations of the perfidious French.



so, without it being specific, I take it that another power (all I can think of are England or France), take political control of Australia by the late 18th or early 19th century.

That is what I was thinking.

On the other hand, Australia really is itself the outback to European colonial powers, and maybe the French or British decide that no, that Indian fort/Caribbean Island they've seized is worth WAY too much to hand back to the losing side of a war, and so the Netherlands remains the grudging owner of a little colony on the ass end of the Indian ocean, with the colonists themselves deciding that trekking out is not really worth the effort.
 
Basically in this weird little world I thought up in 2 minutes the french are the ones who go west instead. So anything that the Spanish did the French did here. Sadly this alternate reality won’t have the luxury of having tacos.

I don't see why not. Just skimming the Wikpedia entry, it sounds like the dish predates colonization. I imagine the French colonists would adopt it just as easily as the Spanish colonists did. It might just be called something different.

Again, looking at the Wikipedia entry, the origin is unclear. If it's related to a Spanish word meaning "plug" and originates from silver miners who apparently related the idea of putting fillings in a tortilla to the idea of putting gunpowder in a paper wrapper, then the French might use a similar word. Or they might relate it to something different and create their own metaphorical descriptor for the dish.

If it originates from Nahuatl "tlahco" as is the other suggestion, then the French just adapt it to their own spelling/pronunciation. Maybe something like tacal (tacàl? tacale?)

And then, before you know it, some entrepreneur figures out how to assembly-line the process of making them and starts opening up fast food restaurants all over former British North America. :closedeyesmile:
 
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