What in your opinion is the last possible date that the Roman Empire can be saved? Preferrably there should be no East West Division but if you think it's the only way to save Rome then you can have the Eastern Roman and Western Roman Empires.
Im not sure what you mean by save? All empires will fall at some point and even if the WRE had survived past 476 it still would have to dealt with the muslim invasions and the loss of northern africa and iberia. At which point it probably would have collapsed for sure.
By save I mean have it survive to the present day.
Surviving West Rome probably butterfly Islam away. But saving of WR would be still very difficult. East Rome is much easier, but I don't know what would be latest for this. But I am pretty suspicious can we stop division of Roman Empire.
Depending on the state of the WR,we might see troops from the WRE transferred offer to fight the Persians in the Roman-Persian wars and the ERE never gets exhausted to the point it did in OTL.So Islam is probably going to get strangled in it's cradle by the ERE and the Sassanids if it tried the same stuff they did in OTL.Why should butterfly Islam? It could hamper the Islamic expansion westwards of Egypt through.
Why should butterfly Islam? It could hamper the Islamic expansion westwards of Egypt through.
What in your opinion is the last possible date that the Roman Empire can be saved?
Then the Empire sinks earlier, with even more divisions. See, contemporary needs made divisions happening de facto, as outer pressures required the presence of imperial lead (with imperial role becoming more and more military driven) on several fronts.Preferrably there should be no East West Division
Depending on the state of the WR,we might see troops from the WRE transferred offer to fight the Persians in the Roman-Persian wars and the ERE never gets exhausted to the point it did in OTL.So Islam is probably going to get strangled in it's cradle by the ERE and the Sassanids if it tried the same stuff they did in OTL.
Umm yes they did,at times.Emperor Leo I spearheaded a massive invasion of Africa in 468 to help buff up the west,a shame it failed due to incompetence.Uhm, I don't see plausible any resilient WRE support in the East - First assuming a surviving Western Empire will be shrunked considerably (Britannia lost for sure, Gallia quite likely for the most part, Hispania guess too, along with Noricum and Pannonia)... Considering OTL the East didn't help at all the West, why later the West should help the East - sending valuable troops away?
Umm yes they did,at times.Emperor Leo I spearheaded a massive invasion of Africa in 468 to help buff up the west,a shame it failed due to incompetence.
What in your opinion is the last possible date that the Roman Empire can be saved? Preferrably there should be no East West Division but if you think it's the only way to save Rome then you can have the Eastern Roman and Western Roman Empires.
The east did help the west on more than one occasion. The first time would be immediately after the fall of Carthage, when Aspar was sent to Sicily with an army to prepare an invasion of North Africa. Though, that was only cancelled because of Attila. Second would be Leo's obsession with saving the west, culminating in the massive 467 expedition that more or less bankrupted the ERE treasury.Uhm, I don't see plausible any resilient WRE support in the East - First assuming a surviving Western Empire will be shrunked considerably (Britannia lost for sure, Gallia quite likely for the most part, Hispania guess too, along with Noricum and Pannonia)... Considering OTL the East didn't help at all the West, why later the West should help the East - sending valuable troops away?
The Byzantines also tried to recleam western land in the Gothic War.
Like Arbiter said above, all empires fall eventually. So IMHO the only option to "save" some sort of Roman Empire until the present day is to have a cyclical process of fall and rebirth on the Chinese or Egyptian model. For that to be possible, you need to have a "Son of Heaven" at the helm, i.e. an Emperor that is even more divinely sanctioned than the Emperors of the early Empire. For that to be possible, no monotheism can be allowed to have much sway. So no Christianity and no Islam on a significan scale.What in your opinion is the last possible date that the Roman Empire can be saved? Preferrably there should be no East West Division but if you think it's the only way to save Rome then you can have the Eastern Roman and Western Roman Empires.
Like Arbiter said above, all empires fall eventually. So IMHO the only option to "save" some sort of Roman Empire until the present day is to have a cyclical process of fall and rebirth on the Chinese or Egyptian model. For that to be possible, you need to have a "Son of Heaven" at the helm, i.e. an Emperor that is even more divinely sanctioned than the Emperors of the early Empire. For that to be possible, no monotheism can be allowed to have much sway. So no Christianity and no Islam on a significan scale.
One possible POD would be Aurelian and his Sol Invictus cult. Maybe what it takes is just to let him live longer. Or it could be the Tetrarchy, with a better choice of sucessors after Diocletian. Or why not even Mark Anthony, with his Dionysos/Osirian model of kingship ? Also, some kind of polygamy would help, so that dynasties last longer.