I don't remember, but small wheeled carts pulled by a team of dogs is wholly possible.
Lands of Red and Gold, Act II
- Thread starter Jared
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I don't remember, but small wheeled carts pulled by a team of dogs is wholly possible.
The Yadji already had wheeled transport; wheels were invented there a few hundred years ago. Wheels didn't really spread to the Five Rivers (save possibly the main raid to Jugara) because the Five Rivers rely mostly on cheaper water transport, so wheels don't offer the same advantages.
That said, wheeled vehicles are spreading now along with (more) paved roads and domesticated animals. Those three things work in symbiosis.
Many did, even in the pre-Houtmanian era, though obviously not universal. The Atjuntja had by far the best paved road network (due to earliest use of iron tools which made construction easier). The Yadji also had some paved roads. While I never specified, the Five Rivers probably had some to Jugara too.
Otherwise, paved roads were largely unknown outside of cities.
In the post-Houtmanian era, paved roads are spreading. Tjibarr built some roads to alternative ports during Prince Rupert's War, as part of their strategy to avoid being choked off by lack of access to Jugara, the main port in earlier times.
Within cities, this happens even on the east coast sometimes. Having cities grind to a halt whenever it rains is too obvious a problem. But they didn't find it economical (or even possible, in some cases) to do it outside of cities.
Yes, they have the equivalent of dog- or human-pulled travois, and have had for a long time. There's recently been a switch (in the Yadji realm) to using dog-pulled carts in some circumstances, though even then the switch isn't complete. (The Yadji have some paved roads, but not everywhere.)
It's the Atjuntja who have the biggest road network, kind of the Roman equivalent of the place. There's an old map which depicts the Atjuntja road network here.
Both are possible, and both are used in different regions. Travois continue to be used today in many regions, even amongst people who've seen wheeled transport, because travois are more practical where there aren't paved roads.
Yes, quite significantly. Imported artillery was important in some of the Proxy Wars starting in the late 1640s/early 1650s. The biggest importers were the Yadji and Tjibarr; the Cider Isle states also imported some. Artillery has become, if anything, more prominent in later wars. Its main use is in destroying fortifications; it is used in field battles too, but less reliably.
What I'm not sure about is whether the Aururians are using any locally-built artillery. The technological gap to be overcome is large before they reach a point where they can reliably cast their own cannon. By 1700 (probably earlier), both Tjibarr and the Yadji have figured out all of the principles of producing gunpowder - saltpetre being the hardest. The costs (especially opportunity costs) of manufacturing it on a large scale are prohibitive, though; in practice, Aururians import most of their powder, generally from India (via European or Nuttana intermediaries).
The Poarter
Banned
Mixed Race Children
Tell me, what are the locations where Mixed race Australian Children usually born at?
Further-more what is their non-Australian Parent's race?
How common is this?
What is the reaction of the various peoples to these unions; Indians, Europeans; East Asians; Africans and etc.
Tell me, what are the locations where Mixed race Australian Children usually born at?
Further-more what is their non-Australian Parent's race?
How common is this?
What is the reaction of the various peoples to these unions; Indians, Europeans; East Asians; Africans and etc.
I would imagine most of the largest states have foundries large enough to manufacture not only cannons, but small-arms as well. It would take a while for engineers and craftsmen to reverse engineer western cannons perfectly, however. Frontiers of the nascent U.S. did have manufactories for bronze cannons, so I think setting up manufacturing shouldn't be too prohibitive as long as the technique is mastered.
Saltpetre would definitely be hard to produce without a source of manure, that being livestock. Local manufacture of gunpowder would rely on bird guano a lot, which would be found plentifully in forested areas and such, IIRC. If there's some system of collecting manure from other domesticated animals, dogs and suchlike, then that'd also help.
People being people, mixed-heritage Aururian children are born whenever there's contact between Aururians and non-Aururians. So anywhere that there's a port, trading outpost, non-Aururian soldiers being deployed in Aururia for any length of time, and so on, will lead to mixed-heritage children. So, in a smaller way, will Nuttana trading elsewhere in the world.
The most common heritage (by far) is European; various European sailors, soldiers and so on (usually) fathering children while visiting Aururia. There will be others, of course; the European trading companies recruited non-Europeans as well, and some of them have visited Aururia. There are smaller numbers of mixed-heritage children from imported labour, i.e. slaves/indentured labour which have been imported into Aururia. This is principally in the Atjuntja realm: mostly Malagasy, occasionally Javans, who have been brought in as forced labour. There are some mixed-heritage children as a result.
I'm not sure what the reaction would be in India, *Indonesia, Europe etc to mixed-heritage children, since I'm not sure what their OTL view was. It would be similar to that they had in OTL, presumably.
Within Aururia, the attitude varies a bit. Europeans based in Aururia often like mixed-heritage children to use as administrative and domestic roles, particularly if the children speak multiple languages.
To the Atjuntja (the largest source of mixed-heritage children), the status of the father is what matters. An Atjuntja man who fathers a mixed-heritage child, particularly a son, will want to acknowledge the child and raise it as his own. Not necessarily as the same status as a legitimate son, but still of good status. On the other hand, mixed-heritage children where the father is European tend to get pushed down to the fringes of society, unless they can get a role supporting the European administration in some way.
To the Tjibarri, culture and attitude matters much more than heritage; someone who speaks and acts like a Gunnagal will generally be treated as one. So it depends how a mixed-heritage child is raised as to whether they will be accepted.
This feeds into the broader question of how good Aururian metallurgy is. They've only been in the Iron Age for a few centuries - the equivalent of early Hellenic iron-working at best, in most circumstances. (Although their fine metal-working is generally better, at least in the Five Rivers). Would the Greeks of, say, 200 BC have been capable of casting cannon?
They can learn, of course. European-style blast furnaces have been imported into the Atjuntja realm for a while, and will have spread east in time. But I'm not sure how quickly or how well, and whether there are other demands for iron which mean that production of cannon is not a productive opportunity.
The big Aururian states (Durigal, Tjibarr, and even Tiayal) have long collected emu manure. Emu dung is of a form which is suitable for saltpetre production. It will have been used that way, at least as an experimental level, in Durigal and Tjibarr.
The problem is opportunity cost; emu dung is also important for maintaining viable agriculture. The question is whether it's cheaper to pay to import saltpetre than set up a major production apparatus. Even in Europe during this era (and in the next century) saltpetre production was often uncompetitive because of the ability to import saltpetre, mostly from India. Aururia being closer to India, the same might well apply here.
I think the metallurgy of the major states would depend a lot on the availability of cheap labor. I think that's not a problem for some states at least. Early Chinese foundries which could produce larger works of bronze and cast iron required a lot of labor, for example. They also utilized blast furnaces. If there's enough coal and enough labor, I think Aururians can start producing artillery indigenously.
Other demands for cast iron products would definitely be there, in the form of utensils and other utilities. If enough demand from military elements is there, say that there are reformers who wish to have better supply lines in the sense of the production and repair of artillery pieces and ammunition or perhaps statesmen who want self-sufficiency, there might be enough incentive for them to look into setting up local manufactories. Of course, they probably wouldn't have access to European cannon manufactories so instead of reverse engineering the manufacturing process, there'd be a bit of trial and error into perfecting it. Even then, I think locally produced artillery will play second fiddle to imported pieces for a while in terms of quality. But if that doesn't put anyone important off, I think the Aururian artillery industry can grow.
This also makes me think, are there any sorts of guilds or companies privately operated, or perhaps regally chartered, that can be contracted for large scale manufacturing and supply projects? Or is the production apparatus much more particularized?
Other demands for cast iron products would definitely be there, in the form of utensils and other utilities. If enough demand from military elements is there, say that there are reformers who wish to have better supply lines in the sense of the production and repair of artillery pieces and ammunition or perhaps statesmen who want self-sufficiency, there might be enough incentive for them to look into setting up local manufactories. Of course, they probably wouldn't have access to European cannon manufactories so instead of reverse engineering the manufacturing process, there'd be a bit of trial and error into perfecting it. Even then, I think locally produced artillery will play second fiddle to imported pieces for a while in terms of quality. But if that doesn't put anyone important off, I think the Aururian artillery industry can grow.
This also makes me think, are there any sorts of guilds or companies privately operated, or perhaps regally chartered, that can be contracted for large scale manufacturing and supply projects? Or is the production apparatus much more particularized?
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mojojojo
Gone Fishin'
Have any of the Australian cultures mythologized the origins of horses the way many Plains Indian cultures did, or do most of them acknowledge they came from the Europeans?
The biggest problem Aururia has between 1620-1740 is that there's no such thing as cheap labour, save for the few regions which have access to imported slaves. The catastrophic population decline due to plagues, warfare and famine means that labour is very, very expensive. Coal is also a problem in some areas, although not all; much of the eastern seaboard has all of the coal they could ever need.
This is why I think it figures into opportunity cost; if the price of local production is more expensive than importing cannon, most of the cannon will be imported.
There will certainly be people who experiment. The Five Rivers and the Yadji definitely, the Patjimunra and the *Tasmanian states quite possibly. The Five Rivers and the Yadji can also afford to hire European or Asian experts to improve their basic manufacturing technology. But this still becomes a question of how much labour is available to set up meaningful production in such troubled times. I'm sure there will be some, but it's a question of scale. Mostly imported, or is there also a significant domestic production capacity?
In Tjibarr it would be factionised, so it depends which faction (or group of factions) is setting things up. In Durigal it would be whoever is assigned to do it; Durigal has a semi-command economy where the temples coordinate allocation of resources. In the Patjimunra, Tjunini or (island) Kurnawal, it would be under royal patronage of some kind.
No. Emu eggs are incubated by the male, not the female. In the domesticated versions, the male needs to be around for the hens to lay eggs, although not necessarily fertilise them. The eggs are collected after being laid in the male's nest.
Possibly nineteenth or twentieth century breeders may figure out a way around this (say by creating fake emu males, perhaps, or very good selective breeding), but not the early-eighteenth-century semi-nomads of the *Darling Downs.
Most of them know where horses come from, although they've been worked into some of the local mythologies - Aururians have a lot of instances of where a particular site is sacred because of some story linked to it, and horses figure in some of those.
Perhaps if cheap labor isn't available, then state initiatives could be taken to make that so, if at all possible. The consequences could be troublesome, but it all depends on the incentives of setting up a large scale ordnance production infrastructure.
But if labor isn't cheap, local production of ordnance can still be done, albeit on a much smaller scale. Like what we'd see in the nascent American frontiers. Perhaps locally produced artillery pieces can be fielded alongside more numerous foreign artillery and local workshops can be charged with the task of repair and maintenance of all the state ordnance altogether. In some states we might see something like a Royal Ordnance Board to consolidate all such operations such as manufacture, storage, maintenance, and supply of all ordnance in an attempt to modernize their armies.
The smaller and poorer states may, in time, find a way to manufacture on their own from the larger states, but I think their arsenal would be mostly composed of second-hand goods.
But if labor isn't cheap, local production of ordnance can still be done, albeit on a much smaller scale. Like what we'd see in the nascent American frontiers. Perhaps locally produced artillery pieces can be fielded alongside more numerous foreign artillery and local workshops can be charged with the task of repair and maintenance of all the state ordnance altogether. In some states we might see something like a Royal Ordnance Board to consolidate all such operations such as manufacture, storage, maintenance, and supply of all ordnance in an attempt to modernize their armies.
The smaller and poorer states may, in time, find a way to manufacture on their own from the larger states, but I think their arsenal would be mostly composed of second-hand goods.
Given enough time, any surviving Aururian states would get to the point of being able to manufacture some kinds of artillery and/or small arms. The question is how much time it takes to close the technological gap and economic barriers (limited labour, imported competition, development costs) to establish a viable industry. I'm not sure whether "enough time" is 40 years, 60 years or 100 years. If it's 100 or 150 years, then there may not be that many surviving Aururian states to establish such industries.
If Aururian states survive in something like their present forms, then the Patjimunra would be certain to use the closest equivalent of a Royal Ordnance Board. The Yadji, Tjunini and insular Kurnawal might too. Tjibarr would not; the factions would not trust such a consolidation of royal power.
The biggest use is the camel trains that travel between the Portuguese northern trading outpost and the gem mines in *Central Queensland. That's how the Butjupa and Yalatji get most of their firearms, for instance.
There would be other smaller-scale uses, perhaps to the Atjuntja gold mines too, for instance, or the opal mines at *Coober Pedy. But in general most European powers, and the wealthier native Aururian states, don't care much about the interior of the continent. They figure it's mostly worthless desert.
If the goal is an industry that can compete with Europeans in terms of quality and output, 60 years seems a bit reasonable. I would count in political factors into that mix as well, such as impetus for developing and funding burgeoning local industry. If it would all be a result of pure trial and error, with little input from experts, it would be decades longer.
Much in the way of social and political changes would take place in the meanwhile, so I don't expect progress to be consistent.
Would you have any guesses on basis of demographics, resource availability, and political climate as to what the first state would be which could create something along the lines of the first "royal cannon foundry" in Aururia?
EDIT: Speaking of the Tjibarr, do you think that given the competition between the factions, each might devote resources and money in order to develop artillery manufacturing capability before the other factions do, just so that in case European's aren't willing to provide cannons / or for other reasons, they can rely on their own manufactories? Would they try to seek out experts and engineers from without who might teach them the know-how, perhaps even generals who might train their troops in usage of said artillery pieces?
EDIT2: I may have mentioned before, but urban areas seem to be best for setting up such workshops. Like the Ottoman Imperial Foundry in Constantinople. Major cities in Aururia probably already have foundries set up there already, the same workforce could be reused, if not facility itself.
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The only concrete date I've set so far is that the Atjuntja set up their first blast furnace (with advice from European experts) in 1645. That technology would spread further east in itself; the Tjibarri and Yadji are both capable in different ways of persuading Atjuntja ironsmiths to come further west. For that matter, both the Tjibarri and Yadji are capable of persuading European experts to come out to show them how things work, too.
Tackling resource availability first: all of the major states (Atjuntja, Yadji, Tjibarr, Gutjanal, Yigutji, Patjimunra, Tjunini, Kurnawal) have access to iron ore in some form, although the last 3 have no native ironworking tradition at the time of European contact. Coal is much more limited; the only substantial coal-mining tradition is amongst the Patjimunra. Gutjanal and Yigutji have access to considerable good (black coal) reserves if they can acquire the technology to mine it; Tjibarr has much more limited access. The Yadji have only brown coal, and that's mostly in the easterly regions which are undeveloped, rebellious, and which mostly fell to the mainland Kurnawal when they gained independence. However, all of those states have viable and productive charcoal industries, so it's not entirely impossible for them to find fuel.
Demographically, the Yadji and Tjibarr have by far the biggest opportunity to pour manpower and economic effort into developing cannon foundry. Not to mention a keen interest in doing so; artillery is clearly valuable to both of them. They also have the best access to European experts, save for the Atjuntja who are soon out of the game for other reasons (societal near-collapse and de facto VOC rule).
It's a toss-up whether it happens first in a Yadji royally-sponsored foundry in Kirunmara or a Tjibarri factional collective setting one up in Tjibarr-of-the-Lakes or Tapiwal.
The Tjibarri factions would all experiment individually at first. They're like that. But they would also discover fairly quickly the problems and costs; they tend to be fairly astute about economic barriers. So they would probably set up collectives of several factions (2-3 each) to create foundries based on the newer technology. Much of this would be for smaller cast iron goods - for which there is a clear market - but cannon could flow from that in time.
Importing of engineers and experts for iron production would be done at the factional level. Bringing in generals would probably require royal consent, which is always a fun thing to obtain in Tjibarr's endless political dance.
Ironworking is there in some form in Tjibarr, Gutjanal, Yigutji and the Yadji, so yes, they will have some form of blacksmiths/foundries/other ironworking facilities already. How compatible those facilities and even workforce knowledge is with better European techniques, I'm not so sure, but at the very least it gives a skilled workforce to start from for retraining.
Speaking of coal, if mineable deposits aren't available, could forests be cut down to produce coal? I could easily lead to severe deforestation if large states want a constant supply of coal for their foundries, though.
And when I speak of foundries, I think bronze and brass foundries are also important and would have the requisite know-how of melting and casting large quantities of metal at a time. Bronze ordnance would be as important as iron to begin with, if not as cheap. I guess in the places where iron-working hasn't ingressed bronze would be paramount, but these places might not have large foundries anyway. If the cultures can produce large bronze statues, I think they more or less have the capability to make cannons.
And when I speak of foundries, I think bronze and brass foundries are also important and would have the requisite know-how of melting and casting large quantities of metal at a time. Bronze ordnance would be as important as iron to begin with, if not as cheap. I guess in the places where iron-working hasn't ingressed bronze would be paramount, but these places might not have large foundries anyway. If the cultures can produce large bronze statues, I think they more or less have the capability to make cannons.