Thanks to Cuāuhtemōc, for his continual deisgn work, and putting up with my suggestions.
That said, here is the first version of the flag, and I am hoping for comments, ideas and suggestions, especially if anyone things there should be adjustments or what not.
Well... have at it!
I'm not a huge fan, but let's have a go at being constructive.
Firstly, when did this CSA go "communist"? If it was before 1920 I would think it would be unlikely that it would use anything like that design - it's
far too influenced by the flag of the Soviet Union. Even if it wad victim to a Soviet-backed coup in the 1960s (however ASB that would be) that flag is still not good; need I drag these images I made out again??
These are the flags of real communist states throughout history:
and these are what those flags would look like if most ameture flag-makers had their way:
Heck, what you've done is even worse - not only have you stuck a random hammer and sickle on but you've randomly made it red and yellow too!
OK, so apart from all that. Back to the principles of flag design, the very basics.
- Why do you have the general saltire form? Based on the battle flag of course, but that was never the national flag of the CSA. The shape itself was chosen to be religiously neutral so I can see how it would fit in with the socialist iconography, and it did come to define the state so again it does sort of work. But it mainly again comes down to the timeline - if this state was formed from some sort of revolution against the existing CSA government then why would they adopt the flag of the army they were presumably fighting against? If it was a later coup they would be much more likely to keep the old flag (whatever it was) and make small changes.
- Secondly, what are the stars for? You have four (annoyingly squashed, thought that's easy to fix) stars and one big one on the top. What do they mean? Why have you changed from the original 12 or 13? I guess having the number of states could get annoying but why keep those four stars there? Then the outlined star - too much like the USSR for my liking, but I've already said that. It works pretty will with the saltire shape but with the other four stars it just looks odd.
- The pickaxe and sickle is a nice idea, but as I said it only works if it takes place specifically after the foundation of the USSR, unless you're going with some sort of odd coincidence which I'm not a fan of. The idea of miners and farmers works well for the usual idea of the CSA, as a state that existed in the 1860s. If they haven't industrialised by whenever this revolution takes place, post 1920, then the symbols don't make much scene - you would be more likely to include a symble of the industrial workers that were most likely the force behind the revolution. Then they're on a circle in the middle - why? It adds complexity to the flag which again causes confusion, and it blots out the middle of the saltire.
- Finally, the colour scheme. You chose red and gold because they are "communist" colours, i.e. because the USSr used them (and then they were used by China, Vietnam etc. But the gold wasn't important - the red was sure as the symbol of socialism harking back to the Paris commune (though even that was post US civil war so again it depends on the timeline). Gold was used to make the hammer and sickle stand out on the red flag, and the same idea was used by all the other nations that adopted it - a simple gold symbol on a red background. Your design is way too complicated to work in just two colours. The reason that circle looks odd is because you're constrained to two colours, same with the stars.
Back to the big elephant - the timeline that his "communist" CSA exists in. Now I'm not the greatest alternate historian, especially when it comes to US history, bit the design of the flag really needs to depend on the history of the state both before and after the communists coming to power.
I assume you have a scenario planned out, but let's get some hypotheticals going. Let the basis be that the CSA and USA fight to a standstill, the CSA with European help, and the US Civil War ends in some sort of negotiated treaty.
- Scenario 1 - Some relatively short time, say 15-25 years, after the CSA wins independence it undergoes some sort of populist uprising. The farmers/workers/slaves/etc all decide to join together and form a "socialist" movement, that manages to overthrow the confederate govenment, independent of outside factors. They adopt a new flag.
- Scenario 2 - The CSA hangs on to the start of the 20th century. Some sort of First World War happens, possibly with the US on one side and the CS on the other. Th CSA win (otherwise I would guess the USA would just annex them back) but the fighting is so harsh the workers (both industrial and agricultural) rise up, they take over the capital and form a new state based on collectivist Marxist principles. They adopt a new flag.
- Scenario 3 - The CSA somehow survives into the 1960s-ish, and even more amazingly the entire rest of history isn't butterflied away. Something in the region of 1 plus or minus 1 World Wars happen, resulting in a powerful communist state (Russia/Germany/France etc...). They take an interest in the CSA and work to overthrow the government. Maybe there is a Confederate Civil War - democratic forces fighting communist guerillas. The communists win. They adopt a new flag.
- Scenario 3X - the extreme version. The entire rest of the world is the same, 2 plus or minus 0 World Wars happened, the USSR came to power and takes over the CSA to screw with the US it is somehow still fighting a Cold War with.
Hopefully you can see that in each of those three scenarios the flags adopted would most likely be very different. And your flag sort of doesn't fit into either - the hammer and sickle-based design would be too unlikely to occur in wither 1 or 2 given there is no Soviet Union, and even in the horrible extreme case of scenario 3 no state formed in the 60s is going to use a sickle on it's flag. And this is all apart from the other design issues I had.
So, a lot of text. The reason I'm saying this is because I like flags, so let's have some.
Here are my takes on the three scenarios. They are all assuming the final Confederate flag (the Blood Stained Banner) remained the national flag after the successful Civil War.
Scenario 1 - the oppressed people rise up in the 1880s or so. There are no well defined symbols of socialism yet, and the them the star seems like far to much or a symbol of both the CSA and the USA. Instead they return to the symbol of the saltire as an all inclusive symbol, and retain red as the colour of socialism. As such they march under the banner of the red cross, and the slogan
POPULO VINDICE (I freely admit that my Latin is non-existent, so it's as close as I could get), a play on the confederate motto
Deo Vindice (variously translated as "Under God, [Our] Vindicator", "With God as [Our] Champion", "With God as [Our] Judge", and "Under the Guidance and Protection of God"). You get what I was trying to do...
Scenario 2 - the CSA comes out of the First Global War battered. Like the Russia of OTL they technically won the fight against the USA, but only because of British and French assistance. Most of the north of the country was occupied by the US who forced the government in Richmond to sign a humiliating piece. Across the rest of the country the people began to revolt, sensing their time to overthrow the previous oppressive govenment. Based on Marxist ideas out of Europe they adopt a new version of the national flag, totally reversion the design to a red base with a white stripe to represent peace opposed to the earlier red stripe to represent war. They also replaced the militaristic battle flag in the canton with the white star of socialism.
Scenario 3 - the Second World War is prolonged due to the much weaker US. Even though the CSA remains neutral throughout both wars it naturally opposes it's northern neighbour, so when the USSR emerges as a strong counterbalance after WW2 it naturally drifts into it's sphere. This culminates in the so-called Third Revolution, where Soviet and Chinese-backed groups eventually take control of the country, not totally without bloodshed but better than Korea or Vietnam. They adopt a new flag, a plain red banner of the traditional flag, but replacing the battle flag with the coat of arms of the new socialist Confederation of American States.
So, that went on rather longer than I expected. But there you go, I can get into these things too much
. I hope something in that wall of text was useful
.
