I think the title speaks for itself. Houston intended Texas to be an independent Republic once more after the state voted on secession. What if he had succeeded after they seceded?
WI: Texas secedes but doesn't join CSA?
- Thread starter The Admiral Hook
- Start date
Emperor-of-New-Zealand
Kicked
Would they still be alligned to the CSA, or would they declare neutrality?
There'll be a lot of infighting in the vein of Bloody Kansas. The pro-Unionists will fare a lot better as the state government isn't actively trying to suppress them, but I imagine the thousands of Confederate sympathizers will run guns and troops across the border.
Also, unless Texas commits very strongly to maintaining neutrality, the Union will have a hard time fully blockading the Confederacy, which can use Texan ports to transport goods. On the other hand, the Union could just blockade Texan ports as well, which effectively puts them back into the Confederate camp whether they like it or not.
Also, unless Texas commits very strongly to maintaining neutrality, the Union will have a hard time fully blockading the Confederacy, which can use Texan ports to transport goods. On the other hand, the Union could just blockade Texan ports as well, which effectively puts them back into the Confederate camp whether they like it or not.
Either one would certainly occur but for the purposes of this discussion we'll say neutrality, although they would probably still recognize the CSA.
In that case, Texas's willingness to open up their border to Confederate trade will be the deal breaker here.
Well say following some sort of public outcry (see below) Houston manages to retain neutrality. What happens after the CSA loses?
Well how likely is it that they'll mass immigrate back to the CSA to support the war effort and the remaining pro-CSA Texans are contained?
if they did go indpendent but still aided the confederacy with their pots and trade, the european nations (like britian) couldve put protectorate status over it, like if the us tries to interfere with texas (like blockades and such), it gives them a cause to declare war against the union...granted its unlikly but it wouldnt have being that hard
I'm thinking once Texas secedes its stuck in the confederate camp. The Union will be putting troops into it fast as they can be drafted.
well...say the usa try to force texas into the union or to break trade and aid to the confederacy...britian and spain (probaly not france) have garanteed their independence and see this as a chance to destroy the usa once and for all and declare war on them, as well as supplying more aid to the confederancy as a "enemy of my enemy kind of thing", but without recognising them, to sap the unions strentgh.
so now the union has to face a revigorateing confederacy and texas in the south, the british army in the north, raiding and decimating the northern industrial complexes, the british/spainish fleets along their coast sapping trade and destroying their own blockades in the south, and possible a native american uprising backed by either faction
Fat chance. One thing Prime Minister Palmerston was clear about during the ACW was that he wanted GB to stay well out of any North American conflict.
Jasen777
Donor
Houston got thrown out of office for not taking a loyalty oath to the Confederacy. He can't lead people where they don't want to go.
That wouldn't make any sense.
If you want a Texas that can go independent during the Civil War prelude you need some good reasons why. Likely PODs years before. You can't get to 1861 and have Houston wave a magic wand in make it happen.
Right on. By the time Texas seceded from the Union, Houston had lost much of his sway over public opinion due to his vehement denunciation of secession. He backed the losing side during the furious debates, and his political power suffered from it.
Cook
Banned
Did he? I thought that, being a Unionist he simply refused to acknowledge the Legislature’s vote of secession but was unwilling to see Texas torn apart in an internal civil war by forcibly opposing it.
He was somewhat more prescient than his neighbours:
“Let me tell you what is coming. After the sacrifice of countless millions of treasure and hundreds of thousands of lives, you may win Southern independence if God be not against you, but I doubt it. I tell you that, while I believe with you in the doctrine of states rights, the North is determined to preserve this Union. They are not a fiery, impulsive people as you are, for they live in colder climates. But when they begin to move in a given direction, they move with the steady momentum and perseverance of a mighty avalanche;and what I fear is, they will overwhelm the South."
Wow he was one foresighted person. Maybe if the South had had more like him they would have spared themselves a lot of grief.
Robert Toombs was pro-secession, but foresighted enough to see starting a war was a bad idea. As Confederate Secretary of State, he warned Jefferson Davis "Mr. President, at this time it is suicide, murder, and will lose us every friend at the North. You will wantonly strike a hornet's nest which extends from mountain to ocean, and legions now quiet will swarm out and sting us to death. It is unnecessary; it puts us in the wrong; it is fatal."
When the people rise in masses in behalf of the Union and the liberties of their country, truly may it be said, "The gates of hell shall not prevail against them."
Abraham Lincoln was one foresighted person too, despite being a northerner. Maybe if the south had listened to him they would have spared themselves a lot of grief.
Seriously though, I think that if Texas secedes the U.S. will simply take it back after crushing the confederacy. During the war though, Texas might help the french in Mexico or might harbor Mexican rebels. Jefferson Davis might also be able to flee to this independent Texas, but I doubt it.
Abraham Lincoln was one foresighted person too, despite being a northerner. Maybe if the south had listened to him they would have spared themselves a lot of grief.
Seriously though, I think that if Texas secedes the U.S. will simply take it back after crushing the confederacy. During the war though, Texas might help the french in Mexico or might harbor Mexican rebels. Jefferson Davis might also be able to flee to this independent Texas, but I doubt it.
In a situation in which Texas can somehow secede (earlier POD, or even earlier secession, perhaps) and doesn't join the CSA, it would be awkward for the Americans if Texas recognizes but does not support the CSA AND helps Mexican rebels. Texas is now playing both sides of the American Civil War, an outcome which I suspect may be the most likely and beneficial of the above suggestions.
I think the possibility certainly exists for a lot of far reaching rebels to eventually go there, from both the Confederacy and Mexico (as well as Amerindians in the West?), which will make the Republic of Texas a bit harder to wrangle back into the Union following Confederate collapse. Wrangled back in they will be, eventually, but what a drastically different state post-war...
Has anyone ever done a TL like this?