DBWI- Make the short-lived Jewish state in palestine hold

As you all know, David Ben Gurion (the head of the Jewish Agency for Israel and the Zionist Movement) declared Israel Independence in 14th may 1948. After a three-years of a pretty brave Jewish war, the little state crushed under the hail of the Massive Arab invasion. This, followed by a vicious massacre by some of the Arab Soldiers and the bunishment of most of the Jews (except the ones who settled in Palestine before 1900).
A map from that time (1951):



Give me a POD, no earlier than 1900, that will make the Jewish state survive.

(OOC: I'm so gonna make a TL from this...)

Alien Space Bats. That is all.

Soviets? We know that in OTL the Americans and the Arabs are fairly closely aligned against the Soviets, and this is despite most of the diaspora ending up in New York. It makes sense that the Soviets would support a state smack dab in the middle of an American-aligned Middle East.

I don't think they'd invade, but there's no reason Soviet flight crews couldn't operate over the Levant as they did in Korea, and no reason they couldn't arm this new state, or even send Jewish volunteers.

It would look like a remake of the Crusades, with Jews instead of Christians.
Same end.

Jewish volunteers... That is a nice one. There were MILIONS of Jewish refugees in post-WWII USSR. What if the Soviets will arm them and kick them of to Palestine (Israel) to fight? They will have damn nothing to lose, and a pretty high morale... But will Holocaust refugees be able to fight? A Jewish state... What a strange thing... But it was a popular idea back then, isn't it? Now God have proved us we must wait to the Messiah before returning to Israel...

vended said:

It would look like a remake of the Crusades, with Jews instead of Christians.
Same end.

Click to expand...

LOL. Are you sure such a state can't be long-lived?

vended said:

It would look like a remake of the Crusades, with Jews instead of Christians.
Same end.

Click to expand...

OOC: Let's not forget that some of the Crusader States lasted a lot longer than Israel has so far been in existence... or was that your point?

IC: Well, that would still allow for the possibility of a Jewish state today, no? At least a few of the Crusaders' kingdoms lasted for two centuries or thereabouts, IIRC.

Perhaps if Truman feels politically secure enough in 1948 to officially recognize Israel very early on? That would open doors to various kinds of private assistance for a start and would have provided an air of legitimacy for the new "nation" from the beginning. Reportedly Truman had been leaning towards early recognition but Marshall's various arguments convinced him to table the idea. After that, the time never seemed right for US recognition.

Truman was sympathetic towards the Jews, as many were after the end of the war in Europe unveiled the death camps. Truman also had close Jewish friends and had even been in business with a Jew for a time after WW1.

It seems strange to us now, but there was an upsurge of vague anti-Semitic feelings in the US during the period driven mostly by the looming Cold War. By 1948 China had already been lost and Hoover had uncovered the vast Soviet spy apparatus within the country. Most troubling of all, a Soviet ring had been operating within the Manhattan Project itself. While only a small number of the uncovered spies were Jewish, the most prominent of those identified were including a number working in the Project.

With Ben Gurion's "Israel" exposing policies which looked vaguely communist to the man in the street, with China lost to communism, and with communist spies who also happened to be Jewish passing US atomic secrets to the Soviets, Truman's need to look strong on communism ran head on into an early US recognition of an independent Jewish state and containment was more important than "Israel".


OOC: I've mixed two broad PODs here. First, Having China "lost" earlier puts Truman in a tougher position with a very tough Presidential election in the wings. Second, letting Hoover in on the Venona decrypt project earlier means there's a chance the information developed by the project is used both earlier and more often, which would also put Truman in a tougher position.

Of course, knowing Harry, he still might say the hell with it all and recognize Israel on schedule anyway!

Well, maybe just like the Crusader states United the Muslim world against the Christians, ending up in a pretty strong Slalah-A-Din dominions and Ottoman Empire, maybe a Jewish state will casue less inner-Arab wars?
And anyway- how about a Soviet-Israel alliance?

It might tilt the balance just to have the Jews who were at the time in the Sitka Federal District be in Israel instead. So the POD would be no implementation of the Slattery Report in 1940: more Jews would probably die in Nazi-occupied Europe, but the survivors wouldn't divide up between the Alaska Panhandle and Palestine.

Instead of backing down have Ben Gurion seize that ship, the Altalena(?), loaded with arms and volunteers for the terroristic Irgun. Perhaps even force a showdown with the Irgun to disband their own rival army.

All he did was leave the Jews divided militarily and politically, as well as diplomatically crippled once everyone realized any terms Ben Gurion accepted would likely be instantly vetoed by Begin.

Hendryk said:

It might tilt the balance just to have the Jews who were at the time in the Sitka Federal District be in Israel instead. So the POD would be no implementation of the Slattery Report in 1940: more Jews would probably die in Nazi-occupied Europe, but the survivors wouldn't divide up between the Alaska Panhandle and Palestine.

Click to expand...

A interesting aspect are how this will effect the Yiddish SSR (modern Yidland) Stalin sat up on the Crimean Peninsula in 1951, many of the Jews driven out of Palestina choose to settle there. It would be interesting how this would effect the relationship between Russia and Ukraine, I personal find it unlikely that Ukraine would take such a agressive view toward the sea border conflict if Crimea belonged to Russia rather than a bunch of Jews.

Another aspect are language the shortlived Jewish Palestina push for the use of some kind of Neo-Hebrew as national language (I hear that it is still spoken in some Jewish agricultural communes in Argentina). I have a hard time seing that being viable with so many Yiddish speakers moving in. But it seem to have been widespread in use among the old settlers, so at very least it will be a language of prestige and of the elite.

Valdemar II said:

A interesting aspect are how this will effect the Yiddish SSR (modern Yidland) Stalin sat up on the Crimean Peninsula in 1951, many of the Jews driven out of Palestina choose to settle there. It would be interesting how this would effect the relationship between Russia and Ukraine, I personal find it unlikely that Ukraine would take such a agressive view toward the sea border conflict if Crimea belonged to Russia rather than a bunch of Jews.

Another aspect are language the shortlived Jewish Palestina push for the use of some kind of Neo-Hebrew as national language (I hear that it is still spoken in some Jewish agricultural communes in Argentina). I have a hard time seing that being viable with so many Yiddish speakers moving in. But it seem to have been widespread in use among the old settlers, so at very least it will be a language of prestige and of the elite.

Click to expand...

Well, so I think the best POD is no Jewish Autonomic reagions in USA (Alaska) and USSR (Yiddish SSR). That means more refugees went to Palestine. And still, it is hard to see how so few Jews can defeat the Arab invasion. Maybe more intense arming of the Israel-Jews by USA and USSR (altrough I must say that both Powers arming the Jews seems quiet ASB).

And about the language- There was a real trying to make some kind of Neo-Hebrew, and many Jews in the British Mandate spoke this Hebrew. But I don't think it will survive anyway. The Jews already has a language (Yiddish). Why making a new one?
And anyway- What territories do you think the Jews will be able to hold?

Israel needed weapons. Good weapons. The Arab armies were corrupt, backwards, and more interested in politics than war, so I think with arms from any great power (and a less pro-Arab Britain) they could have done a lot better.

Heck, it doesn't have to be a great power. Maybe a Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia or Netherlands, fresh with extra WWII arms and short on cash, decides to make a lot of money selling guns to Jews.

ASB, the Israelis (?) never stood a chance. Maybe, if the U.S. had given them nukes, they could've had stood a chance, although it would've been a pyrrhic victory of the invading party.

As birdboy said, the Arab armies were pretty corrupt back then. If a few states had sold them WWII leftovers, they may hold to some ground. They will never be able to take the Negev from the Jordanians and Egyptians, but what about a state in the Mediterranian coast and some of Jerusalem? something like that:


In this scenario, State of Palestine would not be established, and the Arab pupolation in Palestine would be annexed to the Arab states. How abotu that?

clendor said:

As birdboy said, the Arab armies were pretty corrupt back then. If a few states had sold them WWII leftovers, they may hold to some ground. They will never be able to take the Negev from the Jordanians and Egyptians, but what about a state in the Mediterranian coast and some of Jerusalem? something like that:
View attachment 120535

In this scenario, State of Palestine would not be established, and the Arab pupolation in Palestine would be annexed to the Arab states. How abotu that?

Click to expand...

I think the Arab governments could be bought off thatway, if they were convinced there was no alternative, but you sztill have to have some kind of outside support. And I agree, the Soviets are the best bet. The Zionists were strongly Socialist, and though that doesn't mean they'd be Soviet stooges, the presence of a Socialist state thatdepended on Moscow for its survival, open to the Mediterranean and close to the Suez canal, would be tremendously helpful in the Cold War. So, no Jewish SSR, allowing Jews to migrate, asnd sending weapons, ideally early on. In '47/'48, the Soviets still had easy access to the Med and generally could hope for adegree of cooperation from the Western powers. I can't see anyone in London or Washington allowing them to clientise Israel after '49. Sending in emigrants, weapons and organisers would be a great operation for their intelligence service. Remember how they played Gehlen Org with their fake defectors and DP plants.

So my map is logical? Good.

How Socialist Israel will affect the cold war? Will we see Soviet-Supported Israeli agression, trying to open Suez to the Eastern powers? Will that cause a true "Domino effect" in the Middle East?

ASB nothing more to say.

Have the Holocaust and a most of the Nazi war crimes in Russia largely covered up in the eyes of the Western public until the end of the war. That would delay the great outpouring of public support for the Jews that happened OTL, and led to the establishment of Sitka and US pressure on Stalin to agree to create the Jewish SSR at Yalta. That way, most of the displaced European Jews would flee to Palestine postwar, giving Jewish Palestine (Judea?) a much-needed population boost.

This POD also probably creates a lot of American support for the Jews, since they will have just found out about the Holocaust. This could be instrumental in securing American support, whether material or moral, for the Jews.

I have no idea how you keep something as big as the Holocaust secret until the end of the war, however.

clendor said:

So my map is logical? Good.

How Socialist Israel will affect the cold war? Will we see Soviet-Supported Israeli agression, trying to open Suez to the Eastern powers? Will that cause a true "Domino effect" in the Middle East?

Click to expand...

More 'feasible' than logical, I'm afraid. Erez Yisrael (as the Hertzlians called it) was a very, very long shot. NOw, about the possivbilirty of Soviet aggression, I doubt it. Even if the Jewish state militarised to the maximum extent possible atnd received extremely favourable terms of trade with the USSR, it could become a serious threat to Egypt, but that assumes Egypt will not then receive a greater amount of Western aid. Realistically, I guess, the best thing the Soviets can hope for is a submarine and fleet base, friendly soil in the Mideast and annoyance to the Arab world. I'd imafgine there would be regular 'friendly visits' by cruisers and carrier groups to Jaffa - what did they call it? Tell something or other, I think. Mighty headache for NATO's CINCSURMED.

Incidentally, the formation of a Jewish state would royally bollox up political Islam. How are you going to appeal to the peaceful coexistence of the people of the book if you're fighting da Juwes? They'd find themselves in immediate opposition to the Jewish minorities, and probably all others, too. Whichbegs thequestion what wouldtake the place or royal legitimism in the fifties and sixties. A non-Socialist version of Arab nationalism?