Have you ever tried to get others into Alternate History?

I'm already a big fan of alternate history in general, but, of course, people who aren't so much into it might see it as a strange, nerdy thing to be interested in. Nonetheless, I think a lot of people would like it if they gave it a chance, so I sometimes try to introduce AH books or stories to my family and friends, if I think it's something they'd be into. Converting, if you will. :p

One time, I was on a long plane ride from Japan to the U.S., and the young woman who was sitting next to me struck up a conversation. She was in the U.S. military, stationed in Okinawa, and was going home to Atlanta on leave. She asked me what I was reading on my Kindle, and I told her it was an alternate history story, and explained the genre to her. I ended up recommending Guns of the South (she was a Southerner and a veteran who liked reading historical fiction, so I figured it would appeal) and Ruled Britannia as good AH stories by Turtledove to get into the genre.

I've been trying to get my parents into the genre too. My dad is into history, and two of his favorite subjects are the American Civil War and World War II (one of his favorite history books is The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, and he still has the Ken Burns Civil War documentary on tape). I gave him my paperback copies of the TL-191 series (I had How Few Remain, the Great War trilogy, and the American Empire trilogy on paperback, up until I just started downloading the books on Kindle). I've been trying to sell him on reading the series: "you like the Civil War and WWII, right? Well, how about both at the same time?" Also appealing to his WWII interest, I gave him my copy of Fatherland, the quintessential Nazi victory book.

My mom, meanwhile, is into politics, is a staunch Democrat, watches CNN and MSNBC political news all the time, and sometimes says that she wishes she had been born early enough to be a hippy in the 60s. Since she's a political junkie, I've told her about the works of Jeff Greenfield, namely Then Everything Changed, with its stories about LBJ becoming president in 1960, RFK in 1968, and Ford reelected in 1976. She was mildly intrigued, but I think Greenfield's later work (the Kindle exclusive *43, about Gore winning in 2000, and then after that, If Kennedy Lived) might be enough to finally win her over.

And most recently, I gave a good friend of mine from my class my copies of the Worldwar tetralogy by Turtledove. He's a sci-fi fan, as well as a Sociology major who's very interested in fictional societies and their inner workings (funny story: one time we were watching Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith, and it was the first time he had seen it, since he's more of a Trekkie than a SW fan. As its playing a scene of one of Palpatine's speeches, he turns to me and asks, earnestly, "what does the constitution of the Galactic Republic look like? How do elections work?"). I figured The Race would give him something to chew on, along with how they contrasted with the United States, Nazi Germany, communist Russia, and humanity in general.

How about you? Have you been successful in getting anyone you know on board the Alternate History train?
 
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Pretty much everyone I know is into Sci-Fi/Fantasy as well as politics in some way. So they all have seen/read at least some works involving AH/AU themes at some point. So there's no problem they be confused by the idea. The issue for me is that there's very little AH to work with. And it seems like what there is isn't really all that great in terms of story or characters. And really shouldn't those be the important thing to focus on, instead of what "gimmick" the work is using? I don't want to sound harsh or anything, but those are what most people care about when they get into a story.
 
I've tried to get some of my friends into AH, and only one of them I was able to persuade onto this site - Blackjack555, my collaborator on Emancipation and Exodus.
 
Sort of. I've told some friends and co-workers if I find an AH that is good or at least compelling in some way. Usually no sale. There are some genres that require a specific combination of interests that most people just don't have. You need an audience with a solid comprehension of history and intellectual curiosity to follow a long chain of events.

Unfortunately most people I know have a concept of history that is either rigidly linear, mystical (not sure that's a good way to word it, but "it happened, therefore it had to happen"). A history teacher friend of mine picked up some spent Turtledoves I had left lying around and liked them enough. Most other people I know either aren't interested at all, or maybe they'll try a one-off, but few will stay interested in a multi-volume story.

If you think of it, if you're on this site in the first place you're already part of a fairly small following, and most of us here quibble about what we don't like about various authors/stories. Just imagine how hard a sell it must be to those on the outside.
 

Thande

Donor
To state the obvious, people have to know what history happened in OTL in order to appreciate an alternative, and need to have a flexible enough view of what history is as a concept, as mentioned above.

Having said that, a person doesn't have to be interested in all history to appreciate the idea of AH - it's a small leap from Fantasy Football to sports AH, after all, and Roem and Meadow have said that they explain political AH to people as being "like Fantasy Football but with politicians".
 
"It happened, therefore it had to happen"? Apparently these people have never heard of the many worlds theory. Just as a side note. It bugs me how when people say "what if their had been no Hitler?", the responce is always "someone else would have come to power and done the same thing anyway". The fact that I heard that in a college level history class recently makes it particularly annoying.

Seriously though I would agree that such attitudes make it hard to sell AH to a wider audience. I think it ties into the concept of destiny and that the world works according to some sort of "plan".
 
To state the obvious, people have to know what history happened in OTL in order to appreciate an alternative, and need to have a flexible enough view of what history is as a concept, as mentioned above.

Having said that, a person doesn't have to be interested in all history to appreciate the idea of AH - it's a small leap from Fantasy Football to sports AH, after all, and Roem and Meadow have said that they explain political AH to people as being "like Fantasy Football but with politicians".

I find the easiest way to explain AH is "fanfiction about history." But if one doesn't know OTL history, AH just isn't as interesting. So I usually only bring it up if someone is interested in history.
 

Pangur

Donor
I have tried with a few people actually with no success so far all thought there is one guy I work with who I have not given up on yet
 
Well one of my friends at school is a massive history nerd but he wasn't interested. However I did get him obsessed with Poland-ball and since Reddit is blocked he constantly asks me to go on the thread to see the new ones.
 
Unfortunately, no. I'm the only who's interested in Alt Hist, and converting otherwise has been proven rather futile, as my friends and family cannot grasp the meaning of altering history and plausibility. :(
 
To state the obvious, people have to know what history happened in OTL in order to appreciate an alternative, and need to have a flexible enough view of what history is as a concept, as mentioned above.

Having said that, a person doesn't have to be interested in all history to appreciate the idea of AH - it's a small leap from Fantasy Football to sports AH, after all, and Roem and Meadow have said that they explain political AH to people as being "like Fantasy Football but with politicians".

This is why John Q. Public will never bite on Alternate History. Too much ignorance of history, the "most unimportant subject" to be taught in schools. Yeah, like any of us ever had a use for Algebra 2 in adult life.:rolleyes:

Unfortunately, the closest we ever get to Alternate History is "Time Travel" stories, where you run into the brick wall of Jor-El's admonition "It is forbidden for you to interfere with human history", or "History cannot be changed, ever. Even the act of traveling through time is a part of history, being nothing more than a part of what was". Which is why if you tell a story of someone trying to say, kill Hitler in his crib (1), or prevent JFK's or Lincoln's assassinations, the story goes with either the Time Patrol:rolleyes: showing up to stop you, (2) or an endless series of contrivances to prevent any successful action being taken. (3) Leaving history as supremely immutable as ever. Remember "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court"? Despite everything he did, the Dark Ages consumes all.

1) A latter day Outer Limits did that, with the Hitler baby being drowned, only to have a gypsy replace the corpse with her own child (the REAL Hitler!:eek:):rolleyes:

2) A series of short stories

3) How many umpity-ump TV-movies and sci-fi episodes have used that cliche? The contrivances used could be mind-numbing.

Unfortunately, no. I'm the only who's interested in Alt Hist, and converting otherwise has been proven rather futile, as my friends and family cannot grasp the meaning of altering history and plausibility. :(

Mine just show ZERO interest. They look at you like you are trying to get them interested in the fascinating hobby of collecting rare barbed wire.:rolleyes:
 
Just as a side note. It bugs me how when people say "what if their had been no Hitler?", the responce is always "someone else would have come to power and done the same thing anyway".

As far as I know, the actual answer to that question is either "assuming WWI's outcome isn't butterflied away, we're likely to get someone not as ridiculously stupid take a similar position, which probably would've been even worse", or "everything changes because butterfly effect, and the resulting history is nigh-unrecognizable".

The latter isn't very interesting to consider (I suppose someone could make a TL where history is basically re-rolled after 1889, but it won't have anything to do with Hitler or his absence outside the title), and the former is pretty close to what you said (it might be in fact that some of the responses you got were actually this, and you just didn't notice the difference).

In the Russian AH community, a common answer to "what if no Hitler" is something along the lines of "Thalmann wins 1932"; but 1) for such an answer you need to know who Thalmann was and 2) it might not be very plausible anyway.
 
To state the obvious, people have to know what history happened in OTL in order to appreciate an alternative, and need to have a flexible enough view of what history is as a concept, as mentioned above.

Having said that, a person doesn't have to be interested in all history to appreciate the idea of AH - it's a small leap from Fantasy Football to sports AH, after all, and Roem and Meadow have said that they explain political AH to people as being "like Fantasy Football but with politicians".

I agree with you. Furthermore, while it's true that you need to know something about history in order to appreciate AH, I feel that, more than a lot of people would think, the reverse is true as well: AH can be a way to get people to understand and appreciate real history.

I think it's possible, to an extent, for people to read an AH novel, and come off from it interested in learning more about what really happened and the real details about a certain time period or historical personality. Some of that may involve learning ways in which the AH author was mistaken, but that's still part of the learning experience. It's happened to me a lot through my interest in Alternate History; I've learned so much about real history through my time on this board, for example.
 
I had a colleague who is an American Civil War historian. He had a hospital stay so I bought him a copy of Turtledoves "How Few Remain" to read. I thought he'd like it because we often talked about Civil War "what ifs". He hated it. I think he considered the setting in the 1880's too far removed to be interesting and the inclusion of historical figures in different roles offended him.

Since I considered How Few Remain one of HT's better and more accessible AH books I never tried again. Maybe I'd have had better luck with Guns of the South, but I consider that more of a SF/time travel book set in the past rather than AH.
 
This thread makes me wonder: Why do people seem to hate/not understand the concept of Alternate History. Is it because they don't know real history. Is it because the idea of alternate universes is uncomfortable to think about? Some other reason I'm not thinking off?

About the time travel stories. They do that because it's an easy model to make conflict or plot. "Oh no, the villan's going to rewrite history, we have to stop them!", seems to be the plot of every other episode of Doctor Who. If you have another universe that's already significantly divirgent from our own, then you need to come up with a more complex problem, to deal with.
 
This thread makes me wonder: Why do people seem to hate/not understand the concept of Alternate History. Is it because they don't know real history. Is it because the idea of alternate universes is uncomfortable to think about? Some other reason I'm not thinking off?

About the time travel stories. They do that because it's an easy model to make conflict or plot. "Oh no, the villan's going to rewrite history, we have to stop them!", seems to be the plot of every other episode of Doctor Who. If you have another universe that's already significantly divirgent from our own, then you need to come up with a more complex problem, to deal with.

Hate is probably too strong a term. But I think some people (knowledgeable people) consider it frivolous and silly. And as Thande says, if you don't know or care about history, you probably care less about false history.
 
Tried to get some people by giving them the last chapter of my Chaos TL to read. So far, they liked it, but they didn't become AH fans for it.
 
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