Kind of a broad questiom, but what are the best PODs for Ireland having a better history than OTL? Would Roman colonization make it better?
How can we improve Ireland's history?
- Thread starter MrNumbahOne
- Start date
The obvious POD would be to stop Henry II from invading in the 12th century, although given the number of butterflies involved there's no real way of knowing how Ireland would end up. Another option would be to stop England and Scotland going Protestant. Since a lot of Ireland's problems from the 16th century onward were caused by this, either directly (oppressive Penal Laws directed against the island's Catholics) or indirectly (ethnic tensions caused by the Stuarts shipping in a load of Protestant settlers from the mainland UK), Ireland would probably end up being more peaceful and better governed for most of the last four hundred years.
Bavarian Raven
Banned
Have the norse successfully conquer it and eventually have it become a second iceland analogy?
Ireland needs to have a strong central government that is able to maintain peace among its clans, and able to fund and build infrastructure so that it can develop its economy and fund an army able to protect itself from invaders.
Maybe it is done by a Viking dynasty that conquers the entire island and establishes a central monarchy. Maybe Brian Boru succeeds in establishing a strong dynastic claim. Maybe Edward Bruce is able to establish a dynasty in Ireland, kick out the English, and rule in alliance with Scotland.
Someone needs to do that.
Maybe it is done by a Viking dynasty that conquers the entire island and establishes a central monarchy. Maybe Brian Boru succeeds in establishing a strong dynastic claim. Maybe Edward Bruce is able to establish a dynasty in Ireland, kick out the English, and rule in alliance with Scotland.
Someone needs to do that.
Queen Mary didn't seem to care that much that they were Catholic like her when she started setting up English plantations in Ireland.
I'd say a good POD might be actually to have more Irish success in the Nine Years War. Either the O'Neill's manage to establish a dynasty across Ireland and throw off English domination, or the Spanish impose a Hapsburg monarch there. Either way, there's a chance to get a good, centralized state out of it. Either way it would have Spain's protection long enough, perhaps, to build up viable defenses against the inevitable English/ British invasions.
Once Spain starts to lose its power, Ireland could look to France for protection.
What about having the Romans leave the British isle itself, while conquering the smally habitated Emerald isle.
This leads to the Irish Island being the more advanced of the two with Britannia being controlled soley by the celts.
This will help Ireland to have an improved history from the very start
This leads to the Irish Island being the more advanced of the two with Britannia being controlled soley by the celts.
This will help Ireland to have an improved history from the very start
One idea I'm currently looking at would be Pitt the Younger successfully passing Catholic emancipation in 1801 as the second half of the Acts of Union thanks to a timely bout of madness on the part of George III. The Irish Protestants would be reassured of not being dominated by the Catholics since things would be run from Westminster and the Catholics would be out from under the local Protestants and brought into civil society. Success in that would hopefully accelerate the dissolution of the associated test, tithe and penal acts.
Why would they do that? Great Britain has the tin and populations they want, Ireland doesn't.
More likely is for them to conquer both. Wasn't it Agricola who contemplated invading Hibernia?
Gnaeus Julius Agricola, General responsible for much of the Roman conquest of Britain who contemplated invading Hibernia, but did not get backing from Nero, as Nero died before sending troops.
So if Nero can live longer, Agricola may have conquored Ireland as well.
Ireland has opper, lead, blueberries, dolomite, barite, limestone, gypsum, silver and some zinc, which is better then tin. And no population means more land for the conquorers.
And I prefer the name "Mikra Brettania" (latin for Little Britain) rater then Hiberni
For ASB purposes-
Extensive Atlantean ruins on West Coast-links to a civilisation older than China.
Offshore oil/natural gas fields for later exploitation.
More precious metals in abundance.
More arable land-a potato breed that enhances health.
Pre-roman pub singing that even the Welsh find difficult.
Red hair and green eyes means high Psi ability.
Probable a Atlantean Transhuman.
A quarter horse breed that makes excellant light cavalry.
A Druid/Wicca/Roman Catholic hybrid religious base.
Chemical industry instead of breweries.
Shilleleigh stick fighting martial art.
Make excellent mercenaries and sailors.
Overall a ethnic elite of history.
(I'm 1/2 Irish)
Extensive Atlantean ruins on West Coast-links to a civilisation older than China.
Offshore oil/natural gas fields for later exploitation.
More precious metals in abundance.
More arable land-a potato breed that enhances health.
Pre-roman pub singing that even the Welsh find difficult.
Red hair and green eyes means high Psi ability.
Probable a Atlantean Transhuman.
A quarter horse breed that makes excellant light cavalry.
A Druid/Wicca/Roman Catholic hybrid religious base.
Chemical industry instead of breweries.
Shilleleigh stick fighting martial art.
Make excellent mercenaries and sailors.
Overall a ethnic elite of history.
(I'm 1/2 Irish)Yeah, but how many of those resources were known to the Romans? Abundant minerals aren't going to attract conquerors if the conquerors don't know of their existence.
As for the idea of the Romans conquering Ireland but not Britain, I'd consider it unlikely, verging on ASB territory. Not only was Britain richer and more developed, but geography alone would make it difficult to conquer Ireland without conquering (at least a part of) Britain as well. Mainland Britain is after all pretty much slap bang in the middle of any line you draw from northern Gaul to Ireland, meaning that a Roman army sailing to conquer Ireland would have to sail for hundreds of miles round the coast of Britain to reach its destination. Not only would it be ridiculously easy for any tribe on the south or west coast of Britain to cut communications between the army and the rest of the Empire, but ancient ships weren't generally big enough to carry supplies for long voyages, so good luck keeping your conquering army fed.
Also, "Mikra Brettania" is Greek, not Latin. Latin would be "Britannia Minor", although AFAIK it was never used of Ireland. If they had managed to conquer Ireland, they'd have named the province Hibernia, which was/is the actual Latin term for the country.
The religion of Ireland is in many ways dependent on the religion of England, in that the Irish will spite the English and do the opposite of whatever the English do. Catholicism was one of the strongest ways to resit the Enlgish and be organized. so if England is Catholic I can see Ireland becoming protestant to resist assimilation
Avoid the Norman Conquest. Saxon England had reasonable relations with the Celtic powers of the Irish Sea and without land-hungry Norman knights invading there will be less direct links between the two.
However, that still leaves the problem of inter-Irish strife which seems to be feature of the place (perhaps there's something in the water ). Scotland did manage to have at least a nominal central government which if it didn't fully control the country at least had those who opposed it recognised as being in rebellion rather than as independent powers. So some sort of unification under a, at least nominally, recognised dynasty would probably help - how that's done is probably more difficult.
However, that still leaves the problem of inter-Irish strife which seems to be feature of the place (perhaps there's something in the water
). Scotland did manage to have at least a nominal central government which if it didn't fully control the country at least had those who opposed it recognised as being in rebellion rather than as independent powers. So some sort of unification under a, at least nominally, recognised dynasty would probably help - how that's done is probably more difficult.