WI: Edward VIII refuses to abdicate and still marries Wallis?

So something I've always wondered. What would've happened had Edward VIII refused to abdicate and went ahead with the marriage to Wallis Simpson. Mainly its me wondering if that he basically put his foot down and told parliament to "Bugger off i'm the king and I can damn well marry anyone I please" if they could've actually done anything. So if he did something like that what would've happened?
 

Yuelang

Banned
A good POD will be Edward is involved more in the military, and Hitler somehow swallow a stupid pill early and declares war without even considering the lack of armament. And before France do anything, Prince Edward led Royal Navy swoop into Germany, fight at the thickest of Frontine, kick some Nazi ass, and go back home as total badass war hero with the Military firmly behind him.

And then once he want to marry Wallis, he has better chance facing down the civilian government (more like 50 : 50)
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
I think the last British Monarch who might have been able to defy Parliament was William IV and even that would be pushing it.

By the 20th Century, there wasn't a chance in Hell.
 
I think the last British Monarch who might have been able to defy Parliament was William IV and even that would be pushing it.

By the 20th Century, there wasn't a chance in Hell.

Thing is though what could they actually have done though if he refused to abdicate and still married Wallis?
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Thing is though what could they actually have done though if he refused to abdicate and still married Wallis?

Remove him through some part of the Act of Succession? Cut him off from any funds and leave him poor as dirt (power of the purse)?

Behead him if they want? Wouldn't exactly be the first time.

The Monarch of the United Kingdom is a Bully Pulpit, that's it. No actual power. Doesn't even get to write Their own address to Parliament. They do what they are directed, smile, provide a touchstone of tradition, and may even have some soft power. The real Power is Commons, has been since the Glorious Revolution, although the full effects didn't get set in stone until the mid-1850s.
 
The monarch serves at the pleasure of parliament; though it would be a crisis, it is within parliament's powers to remove the monarch.

Yeah no. Parliament is NOT going to depose Edward VIII over his choice of wife. That's going to far. At most you'd see the complete resignation of the government and maybe the other parties refusing to form a ministry, forcing a general election. Personally I always thought that at least some of the Prime Ministers, push came to shove, would support the King, if only to save their own careers.
 
The monarch serves at the pleasure of parliament; though it would be a crisis, it is within parliament's powers to remove the monarch.
Wonder how well the public would react to that actually.

That actually sounds like the basis for a future TL. The new King or Queen while respecting the fact Parliament should be the one responsible for the laws and government refuses to just be a figurehead as well.
 
Remove him through some part of the Act of Succession? Cut him off from any funds and leave him poor as dirt (power of the purse)?

Behead him if they want? Wouldn't exactly be the first time.

The Monarch of the United Kingdom is a Bully Pulpit, that's it. No actual power. Doesn't even get to write Their own address to Parliament. They do what they are directed, smile, provide a touchstone of tradition, and may even have some soft power. The real Power is Commons, has been since the Glorious Revolution, although the full effects didn't get set in stone until the mid-1850s.

Actually this is misconstrued. The British Crown has a lot of theoretical power at its disposal. There's no law that says the PM must be from the majority party in Parliament, for example, nor is there any law that says the Sovereign can't dismiss ministers at will. Also Parliament never deposed a monarch, that's a common misconception. They voted to interpret James II's actions while fleeing the Kingdom as an abdication but they never point blank said that "by Parliament's power James II is deposed". Sure if Queen Elizabeth decided tomorrow to dissolve Parliament, dismiss the government and retake the crown estate there would be a huge upset, but legally she can.

So in theory Edward VIII could marry Wallis without Parliament doing jack about it. People tend to forget that Edward VIII was popular among the working and lower classes thanks to the famous "Something must be done" line. Plus Churchill supported him as well, so if Edward had stayed we might see an earlier return to power for him as well.

Yes doing so would cause a government crisis, but not to the paralyzing extent that Edward's ministers wanted him to think. The government falls, and if Edward isn't able to get someone else to form a ministry than Parliament would dissolve and it goes to a general election. However, I wonder if the MPs would want to risk calling an election at that time. It would basically be a de facto referendum on Edward's marriage and it could swing public opinion in his favor, basically making the conservative party look like fools.

The real problem would be in the dominions, whose governments also threatened to resign if the King went ahead and married Wallis (although again I wonder push comes to shove how many would actually resign and how many would back down) and with the Anglican Church, which refused to recognize divorce. Which is funny considering that the modern Church of England was founded by royal divorce.

Basically Edward would be in a difficult place if he married Wallis and refused to abdicate, but if he played his cards right he could come out ahead.
 

Yuelang

Banned
Wonder how well the public would react to that actually.


That actually sounds like the basis for a future TL. The new King or Queen while respecting the fact Parliament should be the one responsible for the laws and government refuses to just be a figurehead as well.

if only Edward VIII was popular with commoners... he could then defy parliement and pretend (or not pretend) to act in favour of modernizing monarchy and giving non-discriminative issues on his choice of spouse...
 
So in theory Edward VIII could marry Wallis without Parliament doing jack about it. People tend to forget that Edward VIII was popular among the working and lower classes thanks to the famous "Something must be done" line. Plus Churchill supported him as well, so if Edward had stayed we might see an earlier return to power for him as well.
The support among the working class was definitely there. And to be completely honest, everyone in government and parliament knew that Edward had the support of the public. His movements and statements were being restricted to prevent him capitalizing on that popularity.
 
The support among the working class was definitely there. And to be completely honest, everyone in government and parliament knew that Edward had the support of the public. His movements and statements were being restricted to prevent him capitalizing on that popularity.

Exactly my point. Would the Conservatives really take that false step and risk an election blowing up in their faces? I mean best case the Conservatives look like idiots and asses. Worst case, Edward reestablishes some of the Crown's prerogatives. Not as much as the Stuarts or early Hanovarians mind you, but enough that the Sovereign is no longer a complete figurehead.
 
The difficulty was that Edward VIII was also Head of the Church of England, which was officially against divorce.

Anyway, neither Baldwin nor Attlee would have agreed to form a Government. So it would have been a snap election. Quite what would have happened then is up in the air: it's entirely possible that the anti-Edward MPs have a majority, and would have voted down any attempt to construct a pro-Edward ministry. Which means another election...

Eventually one of three things happens - (1) Edward agrees to back down, (2) a majority Government can be put together that will put up with him, or (3) the Government runs out of money. Remember that only Parliament can levy taxes. (1) and (2) is self-explanatory. (3)? At that point you're talking military coup territory.
 
And in answer to the "Edward had the support of the public" - the leaders of BOTH the two biggest parties (Baldwin and Attlee) wanted nothing to do with any Simpson marriage. It's not a case of "those evil Conservatives hate our King, so we'll vote Labour", because Labour's position was identical.

Alternatively Oswald Mosley was backing Edward. This might be your best POD for a fascist Britain.
 
Last edited:
Legaly the Church of England (of which Edward as Monarch is the spirtual head) did not at that time recgonise Wallis Simpsons first divorce as valid. Therfore the King would have been entering a bigomist marriage. The opposition from the Church would have seen a schisim that would have shaken the United kingdom to it's very roots. Though popular with the working class both The Aristocracy and the Middle classes in the Kingdom were almost universaly opposed to the wedding. IMHO Edward would have huge diffculties in find a PM who could command a majority in the house even after an election
 
If King Edward VIII would marry Wallis without Parliament support
it would create hell of problems in British Empire

in that Time Britain society was still segmented in "Classes"
Were Lower Working classy would be in pro "Edward VIII can marry her"
While the Upper class and aristocrat in Anti "This is too much"
and in a time were Parlament has to say, more as King who sign there paperwork.

Means Edward VIII has not absolute power as Henry VIII of England (who married 5 times and solve the Divorce problem by execution his wives and forming a new Church)
in results allot upper class member will ask do we need such a King or the Monarchy ? would a Republic not be better way ?
in this turmoil a group could gain support, who claims the legacy of Oliver Cromwell and embody that of Tudor England.

The British Union of Fascists of Oswald Mosley.

the BUF support for Edward VIII would bring them sympathy by lower class and better election results.
I wonder if BUF could come to power, same way like NSDAP in Weimar Republic Or by Putsch supported by royalist in British Army ?
 
cough... David Lloyd George... cough

On holiday in Jamaica at the time, with his mistress.

Mind you, an unholy alliance between late-life Lloyd George ("Adolf Hitler is the greatest living German") and Mosley in defence of the King would make for an interesting and disturbing TL.
 

Yuelang

Banned
If King Edward VIII would marry Wallis without Parliament support
it would create hell of problems in British Empire

in that Time Britain society was still segmented in "Classes"
Were Lower Working classy would be in pro "Edward VIII can marry her"
While the Upper class and aristocrat in Anti "This is too much"
and in a time were Parlament has to say, more as King who sign there paperwork.

Means Edward VIII has not absolute power as Henry VIII of England (who married 5 times and solve the Divorce problem by execution his wives and forming a new Church)
in results allot upper class member will ask do we need such a King or the Monarchy ? would a Republic not be better way ?
in this turmoil a group could gain support, who claims the legacy of Oliver Cromwell and embody that of Tudor England.

The British Union of Fascists of Oswald Mosley.

the BUF support for Edward VIII would bring them sympathy by lower class and better election results.
I wonder if BUF could come to power, same way like NSDAP in Weimar Republic Or by Putsch supported by royalist in British Army ?

Oh crap! :p

Someone make this TL!!! Fascist Britain formed under Edward VIII and Mosley!
 
cough... David Lloyd George... cough
On holiday in Jamaica at the time, with his mistress.

Mind you, an unholy alliance between late-life Lloyd George ("Adolf Hitler is the greatest living German") and Mosley in defence of the King would make for an interesting and disturbing TL.
Well hell, this just keeps getting curiouser and curiouser.
 
Top