Research for an Assasinated FDR timeline

[IchBinDieKaiser]

I'm researching the great depression and all that fun stuff in order to do a timeline where FDR is assasinated while in Miami in February of 1933, before being inaugurated. I was wondering what sources other then wikipedia(not that I have the irrational trust in wikipedia that every college proffesor has) that people knew. Right now I'm reading New Deal or Raw Deal by Burton Folsom(casts anti-flame barrier).

I basically want to run as realistic timeline as possible for this, covering the political, social, economic, and cultural effects of no FDR. Is anyone here an expert on the great depression, FDR, and the political scene of the time? I want to put together a brain trust of people who I can show an update to before releasing it.

So, yeah. Who has good sources? Who is an expert? Who would want to be part of a brain trust? And perhaps who might have a catchy title?

 

[Apollo 20]

I would start with the Schlesinger 3-volume series on Roosevelt, particularly the first volume Crisis of the Old Order which covers the period leading up to FDR's inauguration in some detail. While unabashedly pro-FDR in its slant, it is an exhaustive work on the period.

There is a vast amount of work out there on FDR; a bit of work on Google will turn up what you are looking for. I found the recent bio by HW Brands Traitor to His Class to be fairly good as well.

 

[Thande]

I've always wanted someone to do a TL like that as it's the POD given for The Man in the High Castle; it would be interesting to see a modern view on it, given we know a lot more about the secret goings-on in WW2 and what was realistically possible than Philip K Dick did in the 1960s.

 

[Why Count Sevens?]

I've always wanted someone to do a TL like that as it's the POD given for The Man in the High Castle; it would be interesting to see a modern view on it, given we know a lot more about the secret goings-on in WW2 and what was realistically possible than Philip K Dick did in the 1960s.

Plus Dick's take on it was hardly rigorous alternative history; the Axis-victory scenario in High Castle is rather more of a narrative device to explore deception than a series study on alternative history.

 

[IchBinDieKaiser]

I just thought of a possible title, The only thing we have to fear is a bullet in the head.

 

[thekingsguard]

Well for one, John Nance Garner would have been President. What little I know about him, he would not have been anywhere near as interventionist as FDR, but I couldn't tell you if that would be a good or bad thing.

 

[Aelita]

Regardless of you view of the efficacy of FDR's policies, one thing factor that must be taken into account is that Garner is no where near as charismatic or populist minded as FDR.

IOTL, FDR had the support of the far left, especially after 36. Garner will most certainly not have that support. The left-wing that IOTL ended up in the New Deal coalition is going to go independent, and probably socialist without an FDR figure.

 

[IchBinDieKaiser]

One thought I had is that Garner would most likely have challangers for the party's nomination in 1936. I think it would come down to the party being split between the Bourbons supporting Garner, and the Progressives supporting Wallace or Long(assuming Long isn't assasinated). This could split the party. Wallace and Long leave and form the Progressive Party of 1936, and the race becomes a three way match between Landon, Garner, and Wallace, with the race being thrown to the HoR.

 

[colleen1227]

Well maybe the US would have pulled out of the depression in the mid thirties like the rest of the world instead of having a double dip in his first term when his policies failed. just a thought.

 

[Readman]

Nope, not a chance the Great Depression wasn't going anywhere, and wouldn't really be beaten until after the war started for the U.S when factories and businesses were utilized for the War Effort. Also, clue me in to when the" rest of the world" beat the depression in the mid-thirties? *Pretty* sure the depression was a huge factor in getting Adolf Hitler into power in the first place.

 

[Aelita]

Well maybe the US would have pulled out of the depression in the mid thirties like the rest of the world instead of having a double dip in his first term when his policies failed. just a thought.

First of all, the "double dip" was in FDR's second term, and it occurred due to FDR attempting to balance the federal budget by raising taxes and cutting spending, which put the recovering economy back into a contraction.

Second, the rest of the world did not recover from the Depression by the mid 30s. In Europe, the Great Depression merged seamlessly with the Second World War.

 

[IchBinDieKaiser]

I had another thought. WW2 is something that this timeline will cover(whether or not the US will be involved militarily I have not yet decided). Something I was wondering is what if instead of the Soviets going to war with Finland, they went to war against Turkey?

 

[Aelita]

I had another thought. WW2 is something that this timeline will cover(whether or not the US will be involved militarily I have not yet decided). Something I was wondering is what if instead of the Soviets going to war with Finland, they went to war against Turkey?

The Soviets at least had a plausible casus belli with Finland, and a reason to go to war (the Finnish border was uncomfortably close to Leningrad). I don't think that Stalin would be up for any adventurism in Turkey, because there would be little to gain.

The Winter War against Finland was over a small strip of land in Karelia. If the Soviets were to go to war with Turkey, it would be over Istanbul and the Bosporus, and would require something orders of magnitude bigger than the Winter War.

 

[IchBinDieKaiser]

Does anybody have any title suggestions?

 

[Readman]

It's cliche, but how about "For Want of a Roosevelt"

 

[IchBinDieKaiser]

I was thinking, A Bucket of Warm Piss.

 

[Readman]

Ahh.....

 

[thevaliant]

There is a good TL done on SHWI a long time ago about this by Doug Muir.
Google it if you wish. It's called "FDR Killed".

 

[Doug M.]

It's kind of you to say so.

I had Garner presiding over a somewhat worse Depression, with a much closer election in '36 (but still a Democratic win).

Garner was a conservative Democrat of a sort that's largely vanished from the American scene. He hated labor and distrusted most liberals. He was a stone racist, though maybe more against Mexicans than blacks. And he was firmly anti-interventionist, though -- being Texan and all -- he was quick to respond to perceived provocation.

He showed a little flexibility on spending and deficits and regulation; I suspect he'd have gone forward with much of the first and second New Deals rather as iOTL. He might have skipped some important bits, though -- I could see Garner going for Social Security, but maybe not for the creation of the SEC. (And he surely wouldn't have come up with FDR's masterstroke of putting Joe Kennedy in charge of it.)

Garner was much less charismatic than FDR, and no sort of a visionary -- he was a rural Texan, through and through, and was thoroughly steeped in the various prejudices of his background. He was a competent politician, though, and arguably better at back-room wheeling and dealing than FDR.

I completely agree that the left wing would have split off; I had a Socialist-Labor party big enough to claim almost 10% of the popular vote and elect a number of Congressmen. On the other side of the aisle, a small but loud, vaguely fascistic American Revival Party appeared more or less in response.

As for the rise of fascism, IMO Garner would firmly ignore it for as long as possible -- the only exception being the alt-attack on the _Panay_, which would generate a ferocious response and a brief war scare.

He would, on the other hand, be interested in the events of the late 1930s in Mexico -- with possibly not-so-great results. (OTL Roosevelt did a very good job of finessing Mexican nationalism and anti-American sentiment, which for various reasons was peaking right around then.)

Anyway.


Doug M.

 

[thevaliant]

It's kind of you to say so.

I had Garner presiding over a somewhat worse Depression, with a much closer election in '36 (but still a Democratic win).

I've still got the doc file, which I might attach if you'd give me permission (I'm a lover of collecting the various parts of good TL and saving them as one easy to read documents)?