List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II

Nova_Philomena

Dragonboy said:
So Mary of Teck still ends up with his brother, now the Duke of York. Nice.

Next idea: Joseph Bonaparte stays in naples and his brother wins.
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Joseph I of Naples and Sicily (b. 1768 d. 1844) m. Julie Clary (b. 1771 d. 1822) and Archduchess Maria Carolina of Austria (b. 1801 d. 1850) [1]
  1. Princess Zénaïde (Bonaparte) of Naples and Sicily (b. 1801 d. 1854) m. Ferdinand VII of Spain (b. 1784 d. 1833)
  2. Princess Charlotte (Bonaparte) of Naples and Sicily (b. 1802 d. 1839) m. Louis I of Holland (b. 1778 d. 1846)
  3. Joseph II of Naples and Sicily (b. 1824 d. 1900) m. Princess Paula of Brazil (b. 1823 d. 1902) [2]
  4. Stillborn Twins (b. 1825 d. 1825)
  5. Princess Carolina Maria (Bonaparte) of Naples and Sicily (b. 1826 d. 1908) m. Francis V, Duke of Modena (b. 1819 d. 1875)
Zenaide was actually offered as a bride to Ferdinand in OTL albeit during his exile due to Napoleon's liking to connect himself to previously established Houses like the Romanovs, Habsburgs and Bourbons.

[1] Daughter of Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor and Maria Theresa of Naples and Sicily, Napoleon chose this match for his brother not only because he was married to Marie Louise (Maria Carolina's sister) but also because she was the granddaughter of the King of the Two-Sicilies.
[2] Lives Longer.
 
DrakeRlugia

DrakeRlugia

Dragonboy said:
Yep, and Napoleon II winds up supporting his brother carlos in striking a deal when Ferdinand dies: His eldest son Carlos will marry isabel II and rule as her equal after their first child is born.
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I can't say I see Napoleon II supporting Carlos in a situation like that. It's quite possible that Ferdinand VII might succeed in having a son, even if marries his OTL wives... though that doesn't have to happen.

Nova_Philomena said:
Joseph I of Naples and Sicily (b. 1768 d. 1844) m. Julie Clary (b. 1771 d. 1822) and Archduchess Maria Carolina of Austria (b. 1801 d. 1850) [1]
  1. Princess Zénaïde (Bonaparte) of Naples and Sicily (b. 1801 d. 1854) m. Ferdinand VII of Spain (b. 1784 d. 1833)
  2. Princess Charlotte (Bonaparte) of Naples and Sicily (b. 1802 d. 1839) m. Louis I of Holland (b. 1778 d. 1846)
  3. Joseph II of Naples and Sicily (b. 1824 d. 1900) m. Princess Paula of Brazil (b. 1823 d. 1902) [2]
  4. Stillborn Twins (b. 1825 d. 1825)
  5. Princess Carolina Maria (Bonaparte) of Naples and Sicily (b. 1826 d. 1908) m. Francis V, Duke of Modena (b. 1819 d. 1875)
Zenaide was actually offered as a bride to Ferdinand in OTL albeit during his exile due to Napoleon's liking to connect himself to previously established Houses like the Romanovs, Habsburgs and Bourbons.

[1] Daughter of Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor and Maria Theresa of Naples and Sicily, Napoleon chose this match for his brother not only because he was married to Marie Louise (Maria Carolina's sister) but also because she was the granddaughter of the King of the Two-Sicilies.
[2] Lives Longer.
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Might I suggest Filistine Charlotte Bonaparte as a wife for Ferdinand VII instead? Daughter of Lucien Bonaparte and Christine Boyer, she was born in 1795. There were negotiations for her to marry Ferdinand VII in 1806-1808. She'd be available much sooner. That would be one way to keep Joseph in Naples and Ferdinand on the throne. Just give him some more brains when he overthrows his dad in 1808—marrying the emperor's niece and becoming his nephew would immediately bring him into the French alliance and orbit, and preserve his throne.
 

Nova_Philomena

DrakeRlugia said:
I can't say I see Napoleon II supporting Carlos in a situation like that. It's quite possible that Ferdinand VII might succeed in having a son, even if marries his OTL wives... though that doesn't have to happen.


Might I suggest Filistine Charlotte Bonaparte as a wife for Ferdinand VII instead? Daughter of Lucien Bonaparte and Christine Boyer, she was born in 1795. There were negotiations for her to marry Ferdinand VII in 1806-1808. She'd be available much sooner. That would be one way to keep Joseph in Naples and Ferdinand on the throne. Just give him some more brains when he overthrows his dad in 1808—marrying the emperor's niece and becoming his nephew would immediately bring him into the French alliance and orbit, and preserve his throne.
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Napleon almost did a Habsburg when he considered her as a bride for himself following his annulment with Josephine, but I think it's possible. Though judging by the numerous Habsburg marriages going around here, Filistine might end up marrying Ferdinand von Habsburg, Duke of Wurzburg (Future Grand Duke of Tuscany).

Filistine is a great option though, and due to the Carlist Problem that would plague Spain later on, it may be better to have the in power Bonapartes on his side if he fails to get a Prince of Asturias.
 

Nova_Philomena

Dragonboy said:
@Nova_Philomena Great work! ANother tree: Louis II wins mohacs and has children with Mary
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Louis II of Hungary (b. 1506 d. 1539) m. Mary of Austria (b. 1505 d. 1558)
  1. Louis III of Hungary (b. 1527 d. 1595) m. Maria of Austria (b. 1528 d. 1601)
  2. Maria Jagiellon (b. 1528 d. 1604) m. Sigismund Augustus II of Poland (b. 1520 d. 1572)
  3. Anna Jagiellon (b. 1529 d. 1533)
  4. Stillborn Son (b. 1530 d. 1530)
  5. Maximilian of Hungary (b. 1531 d. 1573) [1]
[1] Don't know what to do with him, haha.
 

Dragonboy

Nova_Philomena said:
Louis II of Hungary (b. 1506 d. 1539) m. Mary of Austria (b. 1505 d. 1558)
  1. Louis III of Hungary (b. 1527 d. 1595) m. Maria of Austria (b. 1528 d. 1601)
  2. Maria Jagiellon (b. 1528 d. 1604) m. Sigismund Augustus II of Poland (b. 1520 d. 1572)
  3. Anna Jagiellon (b. 1529 d. 1533)
  4. Stillborn Son (b. 1530 d. 1530)
  5. Maximilian of Hungary (b. 1531 d. 1573) [1]
[1] Don't know what to do with him, haha.
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Amazing work!

idea: William III and Mary II have a son.
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

Louis VII m. Eleanor of Aquitaine d. 1150[1](a) Constance of Castile(b) Adela of Champagne(c)
1a. Maria, Duchess of Aquitaine b. 1145 m. Raymond V, Count of Toulouse
2a. Alix b. 1150 m. Bohemond III of Antioch
3a. Eleanor b. 1150 m. Alfonso VIII of Castile
4b. Margaret b. 1158 m. Henry the Young King[2](a)
5b. Alys b. 1160 m. Bela III of Hungary
6c. Philip II of France b. 1165 m. Constance of Brittany
7c. Agnes b. 1171 m. Alfonso IX of Leon

1. Eleanor of Aquitaine dies due to her difficulty in Pregnancy with twins, this allows her daughter Maria to marry her enemy, Raymond V of Toulouse.
2. Son of Henry II with another woman.
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

Henry I of Champagne m. Beatrice of Burgundy(a)

1a. Beatrice of Champagne b. 1162

2a. Henry II, Count of Champagne b. 1164

3a. Renaud of Champagne b. 1165

4a. Scholastica of Champagne b. 1168

5a. Eudes of Champagne b. 1170

6a. Eleanor of Champagne b. 1172
 

Gevher

Crazy idea, Anne Boleyn marries François I instead of Henry VIII

François I of France (1494-1547) m.¹ Claude of France (1499-1524) in 1514 | m.² Anne Boleyn (1501-1568) in 1524

1¹) Louise (1515-1518)
2¹) Charlotte (1516-1524)
3¹) Dauphin François, Duke of Brittany (1518-1536)
4¹) Henri II of France (1519-1559)
5¹) Madeleine (1520-1537)
6¹) Charles, Duke of Orleans (1522-1545)
7¹) Marguerite (1523-1574)
8²) Georges, Duke of Angoulême (1525-1579)
9²) Elisabeth (1533-1603)
10²) Anne (1534-1540)
11²) Marie (1535-1568)
12²) Louis, Duke of Berry (1536-1587)
13²) Yolande (1538-1545)
14²) Thomas, Duke of Alençon (1540-1597)
 

Nova_Philomena

Gevher said:
Crazy idea, Anne Boleyn marries François I instead of Henry VIII

François I of France (1494-1547) m.¹ Claude of France (1499-1524) in 1514 | m.² Anne Boleyn (1501-1568) in 1524

1¹) Louise (1515-1518)
2¹) Charlotte (1516-1524)
3¹) Dauphin François, Duke of Brittany (1518-1536)
4¹) Henri II of France (1519-1559)
5¹) Madeleine (1520-1537)
6¹) Charles, Duke of Orleans (1522-1545)
7¹) Marguerite (1523-1574)
8²) Georges, Duke of Angoulême (1525-1579)
9²) Elisabeth (1533-1603)
10²) Anne (1534-1540)
11²) Marie (1535-1568)
12²) Louis, Duke of Berry (1536-1587)
13²) Yolande (1538-1545)
14²) Thomas, Duke of Alençon (1540-1597)
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Interesting tree, but what drove Francois away from Mary Boleyn 🤣
 

Nova_Philomena

Gevher said:
I guess it never happened and François fell in love with Anne even though he was married to Claude but he was never her lover.
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Henry Tudor may end up with Bessie Blount in this scenario if he is adamant on divorcing Catherine.

Does Francois start the official French Reformation? Though I doubt the Pope would fight him if he tried to get a divorce from Claude.
 

Gevher

Nova_Philomena said:
Henry Tudor may end up with Bessie Blount in this scenario if he is adamant on divorcing Catherine.

Does Francois start the official French Reformation? Though I doubt the Pope would fight him if he tried to get a divorce from Claude.
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No, I think there would be no English reform. Anne and François married after Claude's death, and even if Anne were a Protestant she would be secret or so I imagine.

Oh! Bessie Blount as queen is interesting, especially if she can give Henry another male child.
 

Nova_Philomena

Gevher said:
No, I think there would be no English reform. Anne and François married after Claude's death, and even if Anne were a Protestant she would be secret or so I imagine.

Oh! Bessie Blount as queen is interesting, especially if she can give Henry another male child.
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If not Bessie, then one of the Shelton Sisters or maybe Elizabeth Carew.

I wonder how the French People will feel to see their King marrying a mere English Noblewoman instead of a foreign Princess.
 

Gevher

Nova_Philomena said:
If not Bessie, then one of the Shelton Sisters or maybe Elizabeth Carew.

I wonder how the French People will feel to see their King marrying a mere English Noblewoman instead of a foreign Princess.
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I don't think Anne will be well received, even if she gives the kingdom three healthy princes and securing the line, it's more respect but no affection really.
 

Gevher

Nova_Philomena said:
I think she'd be treated the same way the Portuguese treated Carlota Joaquina
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I imagine that if François II, Charles IX and Henri III die as in history, Anne's grandson or eldest son would be king of France <3 and I like to think that Elisabeth became queen consort of England
 

Nova_Philomena

Gevher said:
I imagine that if François II, Charles IX and Henri III die as in history, Anne's grandson or eldest son would be king of France <3 and I like to think that Elisabeth became queen consort of England
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Either Catherine of Aragon's 1518 pregnancy wasn't a miscarriage, or Hal reproduces with someone else is the only way I can see ITL Liz (Or Elisabeth de Valois) becoming Queen.
 

isabella

Nova_Philomena said:
Joseph I of Naples and Sicily (b. 1768 d. 1844) m. Julie Clary (b. 1771 d. 1822) and Archduchess Maria Carolina of Austria (b. 1801 d. 1850) [1]
  1. Princess Zénaïde (Bonaparte) of Naples and Sicily (b. 1801 d. 1854) m. Ferdinand VII of Spain (b. 1784 d. 1833)
  2. Princess Charlotte (Bonaparte) of Naples and Sicily (b. 1802 d. 1839) m. Louis I of Holland (b. 1778 d. 1846)
  3. Joseph II of Naples and Sicily (b. 1824 d. 1900) m. Princess Paula of Brazil (b. 1823 d. 1902) [2]
  4. Stillborn Twins (b. 1825 d. 1825)
  5. Princess Carolina Maria (Bonaparte) of Naples and Sicily (b. 1826 d. 1908) m. Francis V, Duke of Modena (b. 1819 d. 1875)
Zenaide was actually offered as a bride to Ferdinand in OTL albeit during his exile due to Napoleon's liking to connect himself to previously established Houses like the Romanovs, Habsburgs and Bourbons.

[1] Daughter of Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor and Maria Theresa of Naples and Sicily, Napoleon chose this match for his brother not only because he was married to Marie Louise (Maria Carolina's sister) but also because she was the granddaughter of the King of the Two-Sicilies.
[2] Lives Longer.
Click to expand...
DrakeRlugia said:
I can't say I see Napoleon II supporting Carlos in a situation like that. It's quite possible that Ferdinand VII might succeed in having a son, even if marries his OTL wives... though that doesn't have to happen.


Might I suggest Filistine Charlotte Bonaparte as a wife for Ferdinand VII instead? Daughter of Lucien Bonaparte and Christine Boyer, she was born in 1795. There were negotiations for her to marry Ferdinand VII in 1806-1808. She'd be available much sooner. That would be one way to keep Joseph in Naples and Ferdinand on the throne. Just give him some more brains when he overthrows his dad in 1808—marrying the emperor's niece and becoming his nephew would immediately bring him into the French alliance and orbit, and preserve his throne.
Click to expand...
Nova_Philomena said:
Napleon almost did a Habsburg when he considered her as a bride for himself following his annulment with Josephine, but I think it's possible. Though judging by the numerous Habsburg marriages going around here, Filistine might end up marrying Ferdinand von Habsburg, Duke of Wurzburg (Future Grand Duke of Tuscany).

Filistine is a great option though, and due to the Carlist Problem that would plague Spain later on, it may be better to have the in power Bonapartes on his side if he fails to get a Prince of Asturias.
Click to expand...
OTL Pauline and other Bonapartes proposed Filistine as replacement bride for Napoleon, but he was absolutely not interested. I can not see Lucien‘s daughter being involved in Napoleon’s matrimonial politics as they (or at least Filistine) OTL refuted to be married off. That is the reason for which the matches with Ferdinand VII and Ferdinand of Tuscany do not got ahead. Can I suggest to keep alive Julie Joséphine Bonaparte (Joseph and Julie’s eldest daughter) who was born in 1796 and marry her to Ferdinand VII?
 

Kellan Sullivan

Dragonboy said:
Yep, and Napoleon II winds up supporting his brother carlos in striking a deal when Ferdinand dies: His eldest son Carlos will marry isabel II and rule as her equal after their first child is born.
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uh, if Napoléon reaches a deal with Fernando, then that deal involves Nando marrying Lucien's eldest daughter (OTL Princess Gabrielli). The chances of an "Isabel II" to marry Carlos of Molina (who would never forgive his brother for this "betrayal")'s son is slim
 
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