Your Ideal South America Borders?

Skallagrim

Banned
Okay, here we go. This needed a bit of a background scenario (as my stuff typically does). The idea is that Tawantinsuyu never actually gets destroyed. You can't just avoid the Europeans showing up, but in this TL, rather than the destruction of the empire, its elite is converted (leading, later on, ton the conversion of the populace). Sure, it was probably under duress, but it's still better than having your entire empire smashed to bits. From there on out, colonialism happens in generally the same way, with the Portuguese in Brazil, the British, French and Dutch in the Guyanas, and the Spanish everywhere else. The borders of Brazil end up being a little different, mostly because I like them that way.

Eventually, the age of revolutions comes around, largely as per OTL, and independent states get formed. Their borders end up being different, too-- and for the same reason. In general, I'm separating by both culture and ecoregion/climate.

-- Up top, in orange, we have Gran Colombia. Doesn't extend as far land-inward as OTL's Colombia and Venezuela do, but has managed to grab up some formerly Dutch islands.

-- To its right, in deep purple, we have the Confederation of Guyana. The various colonies joined forces to secure their independence, and things got a bit out of hand. Now it's a highly decentralised union, with inhabitants speaking Spanish, English, French, Dutch, Portuguese and a plethora of other languages. It's one of the most diverse countries on earth.

-- South of the Confederation, in light green, is Amazonia. Formerly part of Brazil, the Native american inhabitants didn't really enjoy that arrangement. A secessionist movement wasn't very succesful in spite of its enthousiasm, but when Brazil entered a severe economic depression, events conspired to separate Amazonia. The ecological movement got stronger in this ATL, and got some very wealthy backers. A consortium of philanthropists arranged to bail out Brazil by investing heavily in its economy, in return for a binding referendum on Amazonian independence. Brazil agreed, and the Amazonians went Amexit. Nowadays, Amazonia is one of the most ecologically-minded countries on earth.

-- The Empire of Brazil, in turquoise, managed to abolish slavery without abolishing the monarchy in the process. It has recovered wonderfully from that aforementioned economic crisis, and isn't really suffering from the loss of Amazonia. Brazil is booming.

-- The Liga Federal, or "alt-Uruguay", did a bit better in this ATL than in OTL. This confederal league of free peoples had lasting power here, and is known as a quiet, peaceful country. It tends towards neutrality, and is sometimes called the Switzerland of the Western Hemisphere.

-- Inland Upper Platinea and coastal Lower Platinea, in shades of blue, are two closely associated nations. The former is a loose federation, the latter a close-knit confederation. In practice, they are nearly identical in their political structure. It is often asked why they don't just join. Both sides are far too proud to even consider it. A heated football rivalry is often brought up.

-- Patagonia, in that somewhat unappealing shade of mauve, was at one point associated with Platinea, but never fully annexed outright. Nowadays, it treasures its independence and stays out of the way.

-- Even more out of the way, whether they like it or not, are the Southern Provinces. Spain and Britain got into a rather heated argument over this rather chilly corner of the world, and eventually they solved it by turning it into a neutral-by-treaty area, sort of like a South American Svalbard. Spain administred it, but a number of treaty nations has full access. The area has since become fully independent, though it's still bound by strict rules of neutrality. It's trying to invite eco-tourists, with moderate success, and has some interesting banking laws. (If the Liga Federal is South America's Switzerland, then the Southern Provinces are South America's Liechtenstein.)

-- Chile, pictured dark green, is quite a bit smaller than in OTL. On the other hand, its decision to bet big on the digital revolution paid out handsomely. In this ATL, the "digitally savvy Chilean" is a bit of a stock character. So is the "fabulously wealthy Chilean tech magnate", by the way.

-- Last by not least, the point where we began: Tawantinsuyu, surving to the present day. Although very catholic these days, still very proud of its long history.



ideal-south-america-borders.png
 

IFwanderer

Banned
Awesome map. Just a small nitpick: A successful Liga Federal is more likely to expand westwards (if not become Argentina outright) than to it's north, owning at least OTL Entre Ríos and Corrientes (because they were members of the league), and maybe even part of Santa Fe.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
Awesome map. Just a small nitpick: A successful Liga Federal is more likely to expand westwards (if not become Argentina outright) than to it's north, owning at least OTL Entre Ríos and Corrientes (because they were members of the league), and maybe even part of Santa Fe.

True. My cop-out is "something-something, POD around 1500, something-something, butterflies". ;)

The true reason is that I wanted a country that essentially corresponds to the northern pampas ecoregion. (Upper and Lower Platinea, meanwhile, essentially cover the southern pampas and the chaco, respectively.)
 

IFwanderer

Banned
United with the rest of the New World as a part of the USA.
You mean, "as part of the Estados Unidos", with that many Spanish speakers you're definitely going to get a "conquering their conquerors" situation. Spanish speakers in the continent outnumber English speakers by about 100 million.
 
You mean, "as part of the Estados Unidos", with that many Spanish speakers you're definitely going to get a "conquering their conquerors" situation. Spanish speakers in the continent outnumber English speakers by about 100 million.
Not really, Spanish would be spoken by 420 million and English speakers at about 355 million, but there is still 210 million Portuguese speakers and some flimsy 12 million Francophones, so Hispanics are a plurality rather than a dominant majority.
 

IFwanderer

Banned
Not really, Spanish would be spoken by 420 million and English speakers at about 355 million, but there is still 210 million Portuguese speakers and some flimsy 12 million Francophones, so Hispanics are a plurality rather than a dominant majority.
I wasn't even mentioning the other languages because the point was that English speakers would be a minority, so this furthers my point.
 
Green: Empire of Brazil
Red: Suriname - Netherlands
Orange: Gran Colombia
Grey: Confederation of the Andes
Yellow: United Provinces of The River Plate (U.P)

History:

1812: The United Provinces of The River Plate are born. They include all the Chaco between the River Mamore and Paraguay up to the latitude of Santa Cruz de La Sierra.

1820: After the Napoleonic Wars Portugal can keep the French Guiana.

1825: Gran Colombia and the United Kingdom agree to not settle people in the territory disputed between them in Guiana. Settlers of both parties ignore the treaty and settle there anyway.

1827: Brazil wins the War of the Cisplatina and requires the U.P to give them navigation rights in perpetuity over the River Paraguay and Parana.

1828: Confederation of the Andes (Peru and Bolivia).

1829 – 1832: Rebellion in Guiana, a republic is declared. The UK tries to smash the rebellion, but the tensions rise with Gran Colombia and other nations. In 1831 the UK recognizes the right of Gran Colombia over the region west of the Essequibo and finally is able to destroy the Republic of Guiana.

1830 – 1845: Brazil and U.P have strained relations, many crises happened for a decade and a half.

1841: Chile entered to the Confederation of the Andes

1845 – 1852: In 1845 the crisis become war. The U.P closed the Parana River, locking the transit from the Atlantic to the province of Mato Grosso. Brazilians bombard Buenos Aires and blockade the U.P, meanwhile Paraguay, as an ally of the U.P, declares war on Brazil. The war ended in 1852 with a Brazillian victory. Now Brazil has direct control over the River Parana.

1850: Guiana is traded by the UK and goes back to the Netherlands in exchange for some islands in the Pacific.

1855: War of Quito. The Confederates attacked and invaded Gran Colombia, the war ends in a Confederate victory.

1868 – 1871: Tensions over the Patagonia and the Chaco. The U.P and the Confederation of the Andes start a war in 1868. Brazillian intervention in favor of the U.P in 1870. Treaty of Montevideo in 1871, the U.P gain the disputed territories and Brazil annexes a good chunk of Bolivia.

1880-1915: Many treaties over borders in the Amazon.



ideal borders.png
 
Green: Empire of Brazil
Red: Suriname - Netherlands
Orange: Gran Colombia
Grey: Confederation of the Andes
Yellow: United Provinces of The River Plate (U.P)

History:

1812: The United Provinces of The River Plate are born. They include all the Chaco between the River Mamore and Paraguay up to the latitude of Santa Cruz de La Sierra.

1820: After the Napoleonic Wars Portugal can keep the French Guiana.

1825: Gran Colombia and the United Kingdom agree to not settle people in the territory disputed between them in Guiana. Settlers of both parties ignore the treaty and settle there anyway.

1827: Brazil wins the War of the Cisplatina and requires the U.P to give them navigation rights in perpetuity over the River Paraguay and Parana.

1828: Confederation of the Andes (Peru and Bolivia).

1829 – 1832: Rebellion in Guiana, a republic is declared. The UK tries to smash the rebellion, but the tensions rise with Gran Colombia and other nations. In 1831 the UK recognizes the right of Gran Colombia over the region west of the Essequibo and finally is able to destroy the Republic of Guiana.

1830 – 1845: Brazil and U.P have strained relations, many crises happened for a decade and a half.

1841: Chile entered to the Confederation of the Andes

1845 – 1852: In 1845 the crisis become war. The U.P closed the Parana River, locking the transit from the Atlantic to the province of Mato Grosso. Brazilians bombard Buenos Aires and blockade the U.P, meanwhile Paraguay, as an ally of the U.P, declares war on Brazil. The war ended in 1852 with a Brazillian victory. Now Brazil has direct control over the River Parana.

1850: Guiana is traded by the UK and goes back to the Netherlands in exchange for some islands in the Pacific.

1855: War of Quito. The Confederates attacked and invaded Gran Colombia, the war ends in a Confederate victory.

1868 – 1871: Tensions over the Patagonia and the Chaco. The U.P and the Confederation of the Andes start a war in 1868. Brazillian intervention in favor of the U.P in 1870. Treaty of Montevideo in 1871, the U.P gain the disputed territories and Brazil annexes a good chunk of Bolivia.

1880-1915: Many treaties over borders in the Amazon.



View attachment 352249

Loved it. A plausible Brazilian wank.
 
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