IOTL, she died in 1536, eleven years before her estranged ex-husband. But what if, despite being locked in damp castles for years, she survived long enough to see her daughter become queen?
WI: Katherine of Aragon outlives Henry
- Thread starter ordinarylittleme
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Why wouldn't Henry let them live? After all, Katherine could not be executed without risking war. He could threaten and bully, but he couldn't execute, just pray they died lol. That being said, if Katherine and Mary keep denying the annulment, perhaps Henry gets sick of his daughter and banishes her off with her mother. (He thinks it's a punishment and Mary couldn't be happier.) I wonder if he will just marry Katherine Howard and Parr earlier ITTL
He could have her murdered, though. Indeed, there were rumours IOTL that he did (although it's now considered more likely that Catherine died of heart cancer).
The problem is that Mary would pose a potential threat to Henry's chosen heir. Just think of the de la Poles going round Europe trying to get support for a takeover of England, or (in later years) the Jacobite rebellions.
Catherine died before the dissolution of the monasteries, so maybe Henry might decide to keep at least a few religious houses around so he can force Catherine and Mary to become nuns. That was, after all, the traditional way of removing threats whom you didn't want to kill.
Forcing Mary to become a nun is the stupidest idea he could ever have. See: OTL's Portuguese "cardinal-king".
He only became king because there was literally nobody else left. Normally, being retired to a monastery or nunnery meant the end of political influence.
Not to mention that forcibly retiring someone to a nunnery nullified the whole point in the first place. There was a case in France a few years into Elizabeth's reign where the Comte de Candale's daughter in France was forced to become a nun by her father/sister in order to avoid a partition of the inheritance. The minute her father died, she popped out of the convent and both the civil and ecclesiastical courts (as well as the Roman Rota) ruled that her vows were null and void due to the fact they were made under duress.
There is a big difference between being in the Church as priest (specially an influential and powerful one like Cardinal Henry) and being a monk or nun, who lived in monasteries or nunneries and not in the secular world
Mary will not be able to escape from that…
Assuming Henry still has a male heir ITTL, I reckon it'd be very difficult for Mary to achieve something similar. Aside from anything else, she'd be a potential threat to the succession, even if she publicly disavows any ambitions in that regard (and I'm not sure she would), so the new King/his Regency Council would be leaning pretty heavily on the courts to rule her confinement legal.
except this isn't like OTL. Because OTL Edward was born after Katherine of Aragon's death. Regardless of what you thought of whether Henry's break with Rome was legal or not, Edward was legitimate. With Katherine still alive...it's going to be more like Anne Boleyn having a son. Which is enough to make one wonder if Katherine lives, if Anne isn't safe-adjacent? Mostly because Henry can't divorce Anne (like OTL) without it being expected of him to have to take Katherine back*. Yes, OTL he was supposedly in talks to find a way to get out of marriage to Anne without taking Katherine back, but marrying a widower is one thing, marrying a divorced man who has two ex-wives (neither of which he's treated well after he tired them) is a whole different ball game.
*ISTR that in Anne of a Thousand Days, when Henry's mentioning "being rid" of Anne, he suggests the whole "I had sex with her sister" excuse. Cromwell points out to him that it won't work a second time. Which means Henry has to find another way of getting rid of Anne
Exactly, plus, Mary still has her maternal relatives to support her. Just exile her if necessary
I don't think Anne will be any safer if she still fails to produce a son. Henry does not need to "annul" his marriage, just declare she was a traitor and behead her, then add in a line about KoA also being a traitor due to witchcraft or some shit? Maybe exile/marry off Mary if he has to come to that? Voila, instantly not expected to take her back.
Problem is that Katherine’s nephew was the King of Spain and Holy Roman Emperor if Henry executes her that starts a blood feud with a power much more powerful than England.
As for marrying Mary off after killing Katherine. Well even if he finds a nice Protestant husband for her probably in northern Germany if she can find a way to bust out of her glorified house arrest with her husband and make it to a catholic german state and from their to Vienna she is basically at large to plot her revenge. Wether she decides to make her way to Castile and Charles’s court or stay in Ferdinand’s court in Vienna I couldn’t tell you.
The whole WI is that she dies AFTER Henry, ofc he will not execute her, just state she is a traitor so he will not take her back.