WI: James IV survived, but Imprisoned

How different history of British would have been had James IV of Scotland survived Battle of Flodden? But here's the- instead of beign killed, James is either recognised or pacified by chance and captured by english forces. Flodden is still enormus defeat for Scots, most of leaders and nobility are dead, and King of Scots is "brought to London in chains".

So James lives, but is imprisoned by his brother-in-law. Quite interesting scenerio if you ask me. What Henry will want in return for his brother-in-law freedom? How James - an invader and oathbreaker will be treated in Englan?. Is there a chance that Margaret will rule as regent in her husband's absence?
 

VVD0D95

Banned
James isn’t ab oath breaker. But he may be released after a hefty fine and a promise not to ally with France again. Maybe this can convince him to abandon the pointless auld alliance
 
James isn’t ab oath breaker.
He agreed on perpetual peace, yet invaded England decade later. I'm pretty sure that English will use this as excuse to demand as high ransom as possible.
But he may be released after a hefty fine and a promise not to ally with France again. Maybe this can convince him to abandon the pointless auld alliance
They already tried that few times, but as XIV and XV centruies showed, capturing King of Scots is not enough to break Auld Aliance, change succesion laws in Scotland. But on the other hand, King of Scots in captivity can be used as propaganda tool in both England and on the continent.
 
He agreed on perpetual peace, yet invaded England decade later. I'm pretty sure that English will use this as excuse to demand as high ransom as possible.

They already tried that few times, but as XIV and XV centruies showed, capturing King of Scots is not enough to break Auld Aliance, change succesion laws in Scotland. But on the other hand, King of Scots in captivity can be used as propaganda tool in both England and on the continent.
Just have him denounce the Auld Alliance
 
How different history of British would have been had James IV of Scotland survived Battle of Flodden? But here's the- instead of beign killed, James is either recognised or pacified by chance and captured by english forces. Flodden is still enormus defeat for Scots, most of leaders and nobility are dead, and King of Scots is "brought to London in chains".

So James lives, but is imprisoned by his brother-in-law. Quite interesting scenerio if you ask me. What Henry will want in return for his brother-in-law freedom? How James - an invader and oathbreaker will be treated in Englan?. Is there a chance that Margaret will rule as regent in her husband's absence?
I don't know about ruling, but it'd make things a bit easier for her because most of Scotland is going to get behind her to get the King back on the throne as quickly as possible, so that's certainly going to give her some proper negotiating power with the Scots thoroughly behind her. After all, it's either have King James die imprisoned, which means a baby King with an ENGLISH Regent (no thanks, as the Scots would say!) or it's Margaret as Regent in her husband's absence (see response to the last possibility), so they'll get behind Margaret just to get her out of power by restoring the King.
 
I don't know about ruling, but it'd make things a bit easier for her because most of Scotland is going to get behind her to get the King back on the throne as quickly as possible, so that's certainly going to give her some proper negotiating power with the Scots thoroughly behind her. After all, it's either have King James die imprisoned, which means a baby King with an ENGLISH Regent (no thanks, as the Scots would say!) or it's Margaret as Regent in her husband's absence (see response to the last possibility), so they'll get behind Margaret just to get her out of power by restoring the King.
Now the fun bit would be if James died WHILE returning to Scotland....
 
James is safe in captivity - he is way to valueable to do anything for him. Especially since he will be both "hostage" and "honorable quest" at the same time. Henry will no doubt let him live in relative comfort. I expect him to have one of the royal castles all to himself,some form of mini-court, full contact with his kingdom. Also, both kingd will both hunt and go to tournaments together. Ransom is not something Henry could just ignore, since his ambitious politics was expensive, also temptation to take King of Scots with you during your next visit in France will be too strong IMO.
Money. Lands in Scotland. Take your pic.
On what basis England could demand some lands? And remember that James will have to answer for any form of agreement they'll make. That's why money are for me obvious choice here - but Scotland will need some time to gather enough money, so James is not leaving England and going home for a while.
 
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VVD0D95

Banned
James is safe in captivity - he is way to valueable to do anything for him. Especially since he will be both "hostage" and "honorable quest" at the same time. Henry will no doubt let him live in relative comfort. I expect him to have one of the royal castles all to himself,some form of mini-court, full contact with his kingdom. Also, both kingd will both hunt and go to tournaments together. Ransom is not something Henry could just ignore, since his ambitious politics was expensive, also temptation to take King of Scots with you during your next visit in France will be too strong IMO.

On what basis England could demand some lands? And remember that James will have to answer for any form of agreement. That's why money are for me obvious choice here - but Scotland will need some time to gather enough money, so James is not living England for a while.
That depends. It won’t be practical to keep James I. Captivity for a long time. The longer he’s a prisoner the greater the threat to Margaret. Henry isn’t a complete fool.
 
The longer he’s a prisoner the greater the threat to Margaret. Henry isn’t a complete fool.
True, but it's not like he can just let King of Scots get away without "punishment" either. Negotiations will start relatively soon, but it's not like Margaret will find enough money like that. I doubt that Henry will push for breaking of Auld Alliance, since he will have no way to enforce it, you can't also just trade monarch's personal freedom for some territory, if you have no rights to it first. And scottish royal couple will not survive if James accept Henry's supremacy.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
True, but it's not like he can just let King of Scots get away without "punishment" either. Negotiations will start relatively soon, but it's not like Margaret will find enough money like that. I doubt that Henry will push for breaking of Auld Alliance, since he will have no way to enforce it, you can't also just trade monarch's personal freedom for some territory, if you have no rights to it first. And scottish royal couple will not survive if James accept Henry's supremacy.
He’d likely demand x amount abd probablt let James go when the first amount of x is paid.
 
It could be a bit like Stephen and Matilda after Stephen managed to get himself captured at the Battle of Lincoln. If the English, hotheaded on triumph after Flodden, pushed north and someone like Surrey was captured through luck or guile, Margaret might be able to trade James IV for the notable English commander as well as a lower ransom...
 
It could be a bit like Stephen and Matilda after Stephen managed to get himself captured at the Battle of Lincoln. If the English, hotheaded on triumph after Flodden, pushed north and someone like Surrey was captured through luck or guile, Margaret might be able to trade James IV for the notable English commander as well as a lower ransom...
I mean...that's only assuming someone like Surrey is captured.
 
If the English, hotheaded on triumph after Flodden, pushed north and someone like Surrey was captured through luck or guile,
OTL, there was no counter-invasion after Flodden, despite how promising it had to be - apperantly there was a panic in Edinburgh, once news about kings's death reached the city. But again, with Henry busy with organising stay of his brother-in-law, lords can have more freedom.

Personaly, I don't see James regaining his freedom for the next few years. If there's no room for something totally unexpected, King of Scots should return home between 1515 and 1520. But of course with later date, it's possible that King of England will do anything he could to take James with him to France, if Field of the Cloth of Gold will happen like OTL.
 
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