WI: Charles of Bourges left the France

[Emperor Lucas I]

This thread was mostly inspired by discussion about succesful.

Let's say that Charles Valois, also known as Charles the Well-Served or King of Bourges(also, OTL as Charles the Victorious) concludes, that and all hope for his cause is lost. Before Joan is able to reach him, Charles is already on his way to Iberian Peninsula. With Valoisian King running for his life, things are not looking good for the French. How much Joan and other leaders of France could achieve without royal support? Is there anyone among French Lords able to replace son of a previous king as "official" rival of Lancasters? Is it possible, that after eventual French victory, Charles of Bourges and his eventual sons will be excluded from French succesion in favor of someone, who did more to defeat the English?

 

[material_boy]

I think the course of the war continues to turn on the Siege of Orléans. Does the Bastard of Orléans surrender the city on Bedford's terms when he gets word that his cousin has fled?

It's almost impossible to overstate the importance of the siege at this time. Basically Charles's entire council believed that Bedford would conquer the whole of France if Orléans fell. They were ignorant of a spat between Bedford and Burgundy, though. The Bastard of Orléans had offered to surrender the city to Burgundy on terms that would eventually secure the release of his half-brother, the duke of Orléans. Bedford believed he city was close to falling and refused to allow Burgundy to accept the offer. This insulted Burgundy enough that he withdrew his men from the campaign and spent the year in his own lands. This left the English severely undermanned. Coincidentally, the Maid of Orléans showed up at this exact moment in OTL, allowing her to relieve the city and chase the English out of the Loire.

The timing of this is everything. If Charles's flight leads the Bastard of Orléans to surrender without condition, as Bedford demanded, then there's nothing for Joan to do. She doesn't have siege weapons so she can't retake the now-Lancastrian city and England's skeleton garrisons dotting the Loire after the Burgundian withdrawal are now safe -- Joan can't cross the river to attack them when the city is in English hands, as Orléans controls the bridge of the river. The whole the valley basically comes under English control.

Is there anyone among French Lords able to replace son of a previous king as "official" rival of Lancasters? Is it possible, that after eventual French victory, Charles of Bourges and his eventual sons will be excluded from French succesion in favor of someone, who did more to defeat the English?

I just don't see how this is possible. By this point in the HYW, it really was just a straight fight between Plantagenet and Valois. There weren't other candidates for the throne or other major players from outside the Francosphere or even any other major considerations, like the schism or English interest in trading their claim for suzerainty over certain lands. In that sense, the conflict was really much simpler after the Treaty of Troyes than it was at any point during the Edwardian or Caroline Wars or even in the early years of the Lancastrian War.

If the Dauphinists continue to cling to the fiction of the Salic Law, then Orléans is next in line if Charles and his children are disinherited -- and the duke of Orléans is a childless prisoner of the English. After Orléans is Louis III, duke of Anjou, who is in Italy pursuing the crown of Naples at this time. After Louis and his brothers is the duke of Burgundy, who -- despite his spat with Bedford -- is still an ally of the English.