WI: All of Katherine of Aragon's children live to adulthood
- Thread starter Dame Violet
- Start date
Perhaps rocky marriage is too strong. I just mean they are going to have their rough patches because I can't see a marriage with King Henry the Eighth going smoothly, sons or no sons. Not to mention Katherine will always have something to say about his foreign policies.
She just might.
Ooooh so Jane will still be queen ITTL? Or perhaps Eleanor of Austria gets to be queen after all?
I actually have no plans on giving Henry a second queen. Forgive me if I am wrong, but a lot of Katherine's health issues will be avoided in this timeline, meaning she might live longer. Granted, she could still get cancer and die. Even in that case, I have no plans, as of yet, giving Henry a second wife.
1516
"There should be no question that God has blessed England," King Henry proclaimed to his courtiers. "For England has been gifted three robust sons and two lovely daughters."
"God has seen fit to give me a precious girl and I could not be more thankful for His gift," Queen Katherine wrote to her sister-in-law, the Duchess of Suffolk who would birth her son, Henry Brandon, a month later.
Much like the birth of Princess Elizabeth, nearly six years ago, Henry was over the moon at the birth of Princess Mary, named for both her paternal and maternal aunts as well as the Virgin Mary. He had longed for a fourth son, but it could not be denied that five healthy children in seven years of marriage was a blessing.
Soon after the birth of their precious daughter, Henry and Katherine spent long hours discussing future marriages for their children. With King Ferdinand of Aragon's death in January, his grandson, Charles had become King of Spain and it was all but assured that he would one day take his grandfather's place as Holy Roman Emperor. He was the perfect candidate.
However, he was currently engaged to Louise of France [1] and while Elizabeth was older (and if rumors were to be believed) healthier than the French Princess, it was a coin toss whether or not Charles would break the betrothal---and after England had broken the engagement between Mary Tudor the Elder just two years previous, Charles might not be inclined to do them any favors.
Although, she would prefer her daughter be the future Holy Roman Empress, Katherine agreed that it would be best to search for another groom, just in case. João of Portugal had been proposed around Prince Henry's birth, but King Manuel was determined to get a Spanish bride for his crown prince. The third candidate was Henry of Navarre who was only seven years older than Elizabeth and although some of his lands had been take by the late King Ferdinand, a match between them would hopefully prevent a French-Navarre alliance. The fourth possible bridegroom was the toddler King of Scots, Henry's own nephew James. However, the battle of Flodden was still fresh on the Scots' mind so it was unlikely it would be accepted.
Still, Henry vowed to send his ambassadors to the four candidates' domains and feel around for whoever might be willing to make his daughter a queen. Katherine vowed to send a message to her nephew, inviting him to spend some time in England.
Much like his sister, Prince Henry had many prospective brides. There was Beatrice of Portugal (b. 1504) Catherine of Austria (b. 1507), Renee of France (b. 1510), and lastly, Isabelle of Navarre (b. 1513). The Navarre princess were thought to be better for the younger sons. That left Beatrice, Catherine and Renee. As the first two were Katherine's nieces, the queen was quite eager for her husband to choose one of them, although she did lean towards Catherine of Austria, feeling she was the granddaughter of the current Holy Roman Emperor and sister of the future emperor, thus the best choice.
The Duke of York and the Duke of Richmond would have domestic matches although they would not be picked for a while. The happy parents agreed to wait until baby Mary was a bit older before searching for a bridegroom.
That would change in October when King François and Queen Claude welcomed Prince Charles [2], Duke of Brittany and Dauphin of France. Not one to look a gift horse in the mouth and eager to make his daughter queen, Henry sent his envoy to make a match between Mary and the newborn Charles. Katherine was not happy about this, hating the idea of French match especially when Charles of Spain and Manuel of Portugal had not become any more receptive to a betrothal for Elizabeth.
Although, he remained silent on whether or not, he would marry Elizabeth, Charles of Spain, had received information that Wolsey was pushing for a double French match (the person who let the information slip was unknown although many suspected the mole was in the queen's household if not the queen herself). Not wanting England to have a French future queen, Charles officially offered his young sister Catherine for the young Duke of Cornwall's future bride [3].
Katherine urged her husband to accept it. Finally, Henry contacted his ambassador [4] in the Netherlands, appointing him to arrange the match.
1. Louise of France was Francois and Claude's first daughter. She died in 1518 at age three.
2. Butterflies have flapped their wings and Princess Charlotte was born a boy. Only time will tell if he will live longer than his historical counterpart.
3. Which means if Manuel wants a Spanish bride for Joao, there can be no wife stealing as Catherine will be off the market.
4. That would be everyone's favorite Lord Thomas Boleyn.
"God has seen fit to give me a precious girl and I could not be more thankful for His gift," Queen Katherine wrote to her sister-in-law, the Duchess of Suffolk who would birth her son, Henry Brandon, a month later.
Much like the birth of Princess Elizabeth, nearly six years ago, Henry was over the moon at the birth of Princess Mary, named for both her paternal and maternal aunts as well as the Virgin Mary. He had longed for a fourth son, but it could not be denied that five healthy children in seven years of marriage was a blessing.
Soon after the birth of their precious daughter, Henry and Katherine spent long hours discussing future marriages for their children. With King Ferdinand of Aragon's death in January, his grandson, Charles had become King of Spain and it was all but assured that he would one day take his grandfather's place as Holy Roman Emperor. He was the perfect candidate.
However, he was currently engaged to Louise of France [1] and while Elizabeth was older (and if rumors were to be believed) healthier than the French Princess, it was a coin toss whether or not Charles would break the betrothal---and after England had broken the engagement between Mary Tudor the Elder just two years previous, Charles might not be inclined to do them any favors.
Although, she would prefer her daughter be the future Holy Roman Empress, Katherine agreed that it would be best to search for another groom, just in case. João of Portugal had been proposed around Prince Henry's birth, but King Manuel was determined to get a Spanish bride for his crown prince. The third candidate was Henry of Navarre who was only seven years older than Elizabeth and although some of his lands had been take by the late King Ferdinand, a match between them would hopefully prevent a French-Navarre alliance. The fourth possible bridegroom was the toddler King of Scots, Henry's own nephew James. However, the battle of Flodden was still fresh on the Scots' mind so it was unlikely it would be accepted.
Still, Henry vowed to send his ambassadors to the four candidates' domains and feel around for whoever might be willing to make his daughter a queen. Katherine vowed to send a message to her nephew, inviting him to spend some time in England.
Much like his sister, Prince Henry had many prospective brides. There was Beatrice of Portugal (b. 1504) Catherine of Austria (b. 1507), Renee of France (b. 1510), and lastly, Isabelle of Navarre (b. 1513). The Navarre princess were thought to be better for the younger sons. That left Beatrice, Catherine and Renee. As the first two were Katherine's nieces, the queen was quite eager for her husband to choose one of them, although she did lean towards Catherine of Austria, feeling she was the granddaughter of the current Holy Roman Emperor and sister of the future emperor, thus the best choice.
The Duke of York and the Duke of Richmond would have domestic matches although they would not be picked for a while. The happy parents agreed to wait until baby Mary was a bit older before searching for a bridegroom.
That would change in October when King François and Queen Claude welcomed Prince Charles [2], Duke of Brittany and Dauphin of France. Not one to look a gift horse in the mouth and eager to make his daughter queen, Henry sent his envoy to make a match between Mary and the newborn Charles. Katherine was not happy about this, hating the idea of French match especially when Charles of Spain and Manuel of Portugal had not become any more receptive to a betrothal for Elizabeth.
Although, he remained silent on whether or not, he would marry Elizabeth, Charles of Spain, had received information that Wolsey was pushing for a double French match (the person who let the information slip was unknown although many suspected the mole was in the queen's household if not the queen herself). Not wanting England to have a French future queen, Charles officially offered his young sister Catherine for the young Duke of Cornwall's future bride [3].
Katherine urged her husband to accept it. Finally, Henry contacted his ambassador [4] in the Netherlands, appointing him to arrange the match.
1. Louise of France was Francois and Claude's first daughter. She died in 1518 at age three.
2. Butterflies have flapped their wings and Princess Charlotte was born a boy. Only time will tell if he will live longer than his historical counterpart.
3. Which means if Manuel wants a Spanish bride for Joao, there can be no wife stealing as Catherine will be off the market.
4. That would be everyone's favorite Lord Thomas Boleyn.
Last edited:
Hedwig Jagellion is not marrying a third son of the english king. John is destined for a domestic match.
Okay, it was a long shot anyway, I think. Better stick with Navarre princess for Edward. Any suggestions for John's bride?
An heiress. Most likely Anne Bourchier, 3 years years younger than him or Catherine Willoughby, 4 years and half younger and daughter of Catherine’s maid of honor and great friend
Last edited:
I had made a mistake on the age difference between him and his prospective brides: Anne is older and (likely) richer, but Catherine’s mother is very close to John’s mother
Anne could work for the Duke of York then. She's only four years younger then him and one of the wealthiest heiresses in England.
Catherine Willoughby will do just nicely for John.
Last edited:
Very nice to see all the marriage negotiations, and I think the Duke of Cornwall would find a good match with his Spanish cousin Catherine. As far as John is concerned, I'd love to see him marry Catherine Willoughby.
John and Catherine it is then. Any thoughts about the future fourth son? Everyone is satisfied with the marriage between Catherine of Austria and Prince Henry though right?
Last edited:
Well if Henry VIII and Catherine will have four sons then Anne Bourchier for John and Catherine Willoughby for “Edmund”
The 1517 pregnancy is unlikely. We know it didn't happen due to Wolsey's notes...
You know what, there is no proof that there was a pregnancy in 1517, and I think three sons is a enough.
I hope Henry Prince of Wales marries Renee of France tbh, just because...PLEASE no cousin matches...