The Swastika is a symbol that has been used in every continent and meant as universal symbol of piece. What if was used as a symbol of or nod to the pro-Communist societies that used it?
WI: Actual Socialist Movements adopted the Swastika instead of the Far Right?
- Thread starter Oba Cahokia
- Start date
It would still be banned in Germany for the same reason that the hammer and sickle symbol was banned, but it won't be a symbol of evil.
It would be hilarious if the Soviet Union adopted the Swastika, while Nazi Germany actually just used old Kaiserreich flags.
It would still be banned in few Eastern European countries today, but for another reasons entirely.
What if the Soviets adopted the Swastika, while Nazi Germany adopted the Hammer and Sickle?
The Hammer and Sickle has been a symbol of the Socialist movement a hell of a lot longer than the existence of the Nazi party. Almost no way in hell they would adopt it.
Well, it still doesn't make sense.
You see all emblems and symbols adopted by socialist groups were designed to reflect Marxist principles and the ideals the proletariat. For example, themost common symbol is the hammer and sickle: the hammer for workers and the sickle for the peasants.
The GDR's emblem was a compass superimposed on a hammer, all surrounded be a circle of wheat: the hammer for the workers, the wheat instead represents the peasants, and the compass representing skilled workers.
The WPK's emblem consists of a hammer and sickle, separated by a brush: the hammer and sickle are self evident but the brush represents intellectuals and lower level bureaucrats.
A swastika does not fit in this socialist symbolism. Furthermore it may even contradict those dogmas. Marxism advocates for a revolution of workers to overthrow the upper classes.
Placing a swastika there could be misinterpreted to mean the working class making peace with the upper class.
Big no-no.
Well the OP said "actual socialists".
I know what he was trying to infer, but a significant portion of leftist discourse after Lenin's death is socialist groups accusing one another of not being true socialists.
But most main factions seem to agree that socialist movements that anchor themselves to religion are not true socialists.
So I think what you propose falls out of the OPs scope.
They could adopt the Hammer and Sword which I think Strasserists used. In which case the Hammer and Sword is banned in more place than the Swastika, and that's literally it.
Tell that to most socialists.
My point is that "actual socialists" is a very subjective term.
The Nazis IOTL picked the swastika because it looked cool and was a lucky charm(which, funnily enough, they inverted like a upside-down cross) so I dont think it is that absurd for other socialist movements to have adopted it but it is still as likely as they adopting the a luck clover as their symbol, meaning not at all - the hammer and sickle is just better period
Now if the center of socialist in the world stopped being the Anglo-French axis(heh) and didnt become Russia like IOTL but instead India then I could absolutely see the swastika becoming THE left symbol under a India-led socialist movement
Though that would be a enormous POD in and on itself and good luck figuring out how to make socialism not only popular there but strong enough to beat the British Empire and take the USSR's place in the Sun
Now if the center of socialist in the world stopped being the Anglo-French axis(heh) and didnt become Russia like IOTL but instead India then I could absolutely see the swastika becoming THE left symbol under a India-led socialist movement
Though that would be a enormous POD in and on itself and good luck figuring out how to make socialism not only popular there but strong enough to beat the British Empire and take the USSR's place in the Sun
The swastika for the longest time was the symbol of luck and a lot of Germans thought it was a cultural meme
( that would later allow the far right latched onto..)
But with a bit of luck revolutionaries could use this the same way the French revolutionaries try to use the faces to be the symbol of the republic..
United indivisible for the republic that vows for liberty egality fraternity or death
to that republic
It was an ancient symbol of oppression of the state of Rome, where they sent one a gaggle of troops with sticks beat a person to near death and then cut off the bloody head.
And the French revolutionaries used this meme this cultural symbol, and turned it into something like "the United people, Will stand up. We'll lead the charge with our hundreds of sticks and the ax shall be the finale of the elite to chained and bound us.
Although I will say the swastika is so ubiquitous as a really easy symbol of luck. I think if it had to stay that way it would often be used as a marketing symbol.
I mean that's kind of what it was to the Nazis a very simple marketing symbol. Something very easy to draw. Something to remember. Therefore easy to evolve and duplicate memetic ly
So long as it remains ubiquitous instead of stolen by the far right, I think it could be used by the socialist as a symbol of luck, of hope. .
The hammer and sickle, is actually very simple to explain as a symbol
The hammer for the proletarian hammering away in the cities, foraging items and resources and smelting,
the sickle for the peasant farmer..
Socialist use different tools, and they would have different symbols. For example, in East Berlin notice the flag use a workman's tool
Heck it's actually very easy to come up with alternative socialist symbols
here's an example
See that yellow one? The hammer, the pen, the sickle? Yeah, that can be used as an alternative
The whole reason it's used is because it's considered a combining force of the proletarian (in the city) and the peasant. (The fields)
I would understand. A. Fascist trying to use nationalism to say that both are equally Aryan and thus "should unify against those degenerates that aren't (insert cultural hegemonic group)
Honestly, the hammered sickle is a lot harder to get out of the socialists hands then for them to latch onto the swastika as a symbol of luck and progress.
( that would later allow the far right latched onto..)
But with a bit of luck revolutionaries could use this the same way the French revolutionaries try to use the faces to be the symbol of the republic..
United indivisible for the republic that vows for liberty egality fraternity or death
to that republic
It was an ancient symbol of oppression of the state of Rome, where they sent one a gaggle of troops with sticks beat a person to near death and then cut off the bloody head.
And the French revolutionaries used this meme this cultural symbol, and turned it into something like "the United people, Will stand up. We'll lead the charge with our hundreds of sticks and the ax shall be the finale of the elite to chained and bound us.
Although I will say the swastika is so ubiquitous as a really easy symbol of luck. I think if it had to stay that way it would often be used as a marketing symbol.
I mean that's kind of what it was to the Nazis a very simple marketing symbol. Something very easy to draw. Something to remember. Therefore easy to evolve and duplicate memetic ly
So long as it remains ubiquitous instead of stolen by the far right, I think it could be used by the socialist as a symbol of luck, of hope. .
The hammer and sickle, is actually very simple to explain as a symbol
The hammer for the proletarian hammering away in the cities, foraging items and resources and smelting,
the sickle for the peasant farmer..
Socialist use different tools, and they would have different symbols. For example, in East Berlin notice the flag use a workman's tool
Heck it's actually very easy to come up with alternative socialist symbols
here's an example
See that yellow one? The hammer, the pen, the sickle? Yeah, that can be used as an alternative
The whole reason it's used is because it's considered a combining force of the proletarian (in the city) and the peasant. (The fields)
I would understand. A. Fascist trying to use nationalism to say that both are equally Aryan and thus "should unify against those degenerates that aren't (insert cultural hegemonic group)
Honestly, the hammered sickle is a lot harder to get out of the socialists hands then for them to latch onto the swastika as a symbol of luck and progress.
An agrarian based socialist movement starts out with a windmill as their symbol, slowly it’s simplified and watered down to a swastika.
dcharles
Banned
You did, but what's the point of this question?
Like, do you think that the Nazis choosing the Swastika had some sort of effect on their appeal to the public? Do you think the cool flag was the reason people became Communists/Nazis? Because that's a rather unique take.
If you don't, then what does it matter?
eugenekun
Banned
Given the communists' aversion to traditional religion, and traditional religion having little good to say about communism as an idea, this is highly unlikely, unless the communists are ironybros and the Nazis decided to co-opt a different symbol. The Nazis chose the Swastika specifically because it was a symbol of peace, and therefore made the lie of the Nazi regime much more stark.
If you think that's bad, just wait until you hear about how much Theosophy influenced the Nazi ideology and how prevalent that is today. It is for that reason alone that Eastern religion has a "progressive" veneer into the Anglophone world. In most of the world, the Eastern religions are screamingly reactionary.