When the Wind Blew: a P&S Open Thread

I would not expect the San Andreas to be triggered by realistic nukes, but the Canaries megatsunami seems more plausible to me.
It’s perfectly sensible. Making tea involves boiling water, which kills water borne diseases. Moreover, tea itself has anti-bacterial qualities.
You may have noticed someone in that Twitter thread making that very same point. Not that I know who that would be. ;)
Finnish Defence Forces training before the War of 1984:




All photos from the archives of the Finnish National Administration via the Finnish State Information Office in Mikkeli, FNA.

...ahem, I mean they are from the Finnish Defence Forces Instagram account.
Hello, everybody. Can I ask something from every Turk(if there is)? Can any of you make a Protect and Survive spinoff which sets in Turkey?
Somebody would ask: Why you don't do it? Here is the answer. I tried to do one, but it was really bad. I am not angry to myself, as I was fourteen at that time but I want people to forget my disgusting story by someone making a great (or at least good) Turkish spinoff about Turkey. I also love my country and I think, if people remember Turkish Protect and Survive as my bad spinoff, it would be bad for it(or I will became sad for few days and then I would forget it.)
So, can any of you make a Turkish Protect and Survive spinoff?
Note:I hope this is the right place to write it.
Hello everybody. Well, today, while rereading the Protect and Survive, I suddenly had a idea. And HOI4 mod about Protect and Survive Universe. I plan it to be set in 2007. I can do the icon making and modding stuff. But, I need good writers and plannerd. Oh, I also need the blessings of P&S higher ups. Well, what do you think about it?
Well, given that SultanArda is really interested in my old Czechoslovak concept, I've decided to provide a summary. A synopsis.



The Sun Sets Behind the High Hill

Survivor Stories from Protect & Survive Czechoslovakia

(synopis of an unrealised concept by Petike)​

The trouble is, I didn't plan it out in detail. Just general ideas that I never got to work on. I ran into the issue that I'd need a Czech co-writer to really do it justice, given the Czechoslovak context, and also later abandoned the plans for the timeline, because writing about a nuclear war and its horrific consequences isn't exactly amusing. I will try to recap the general idea I had, though I don't guarantee I remember everything, despite my good memory.

The general idea was that Czechoslovakia would be badly hit, particularly the Czech lands. Airbases, rocket bases, airports, military bases and most bigger cities and industries would be wiped out, many major road and rail connections would be severed and take a while to repair (if enough people survived in the region and had enough of a capability to repair them). Most of the ČSLA would be obliterated on the frontline in Germany and fallout from Germany would spread to the east, over Bohemia, affecting many of the most densely-populated parts of Czechoslovakia, in addition to the fallout that would already be kicked up from the blasts in Czechoslovakia itself. Once some resources could be spared, the remnants of the government would attempt diplomatic contact with Munich, as described in my posted backstory. Things would not be over, though.

One aspect of the storyline was that part of the surviving Soviet forces stationed in Czechoslovakia, unable to return to the destroyed USSR, would essentially instigate a coup d'état against the surviving Czechoslovak government and its local and regional underlings, forming a military junta of sorts and de facto live off the land as warlords. The ideological argument being that Czechoslovakia "deserved" this as part of their "punishment" after 1968 and now that the USSR is gone, its remains represented by Soviet officers and soldiers "have the right" to create a Soviet government-in-exile. Though part of the forces do this, part of the Soviet soldiers see the writing on the wall, and similarly to the Soviet soldiers in Münich, decide to basically renounce any loyalty to the USSR and go completely over to the remnants of the civilian government and the ČSLA. These, along with whatever civilians decide to arm themselves or provide intel, essentially form a resistance against the soldiers-turned-warlords. Some people in the state administration, some of the civilians and some of the ČSLA soldiers would decide to collaborate with the warlords. Either out of fear or out of convenience.

What would ensue would be a gradually developing open war, with the warlords increasing their retalliation against civilians and resistance movement members, and the resistance also committing some crimes out of anger. This would be an ugly tragedy. Finally, after western nations got wind of the scale of the disaster, some military reserves would be organised and an expeditionary force sent to Czechoslovakia, to help defeat and eject the warlords and their turncoat allies. This would occur about a year or two after The Exchange. The last warlord pockets would be defeated, the warlords internationally tried in Munich (or elsewhere), some executed, some merely given a life sentence and imprisoned abroad. This period between The Exchange, the rebellion against the remnant government (by the mostly Soviet deserters-turned-warlords) and its eventual restoration as a provisional government would come to be nicknamed "The Days of the Wolf" (Dni vlka or Vlčí dny/Vlčie dni, sort of similar to the OTL expression "Years of Lead"). This is why one of my point-of-view characters still has traumatic flashbacks where he name-drops "The Days of the Wolf".

The remnant Czechoslovak government would then slowly restore power throughout the country, though it would take time to regain people's trust. However, most people would be disappointed by the remaining government hardliners and seeing that the USSR and its power have ceased to exist (and offended that so many occupying Soviet soldiers behaved like killers, bandits and thugs), they would openly start calling for regime change. This would happen by the late 1980s or the first years of the 1990s, at the latest. The end result would be that the weakened provisional government would eventually give in to the demands of remaining Czechoslovak citizens and begin a process of transition from a communist regime to a democratic regime. There wouldn't be a Czechoslovak dissolution by the 2010s, but this would largelly be due to the collapsed population of former Czechoslovakia and the lack of resources needed for the economic base of the two countries in a potential ATL Velvet Divorce. Czechoslovakia would, in a sense, partly cease to exist, as it would be now known as the Czech and Slovak Federation, or the Federation of Czechia and Slovakia. I imagine the ATL flag after the restoration of democracy and rebuilding in the post-Exchange period would be similar to this concept.

Predictably, the events of these years leave the citizens of former Czechoslovakia highly traumatised (on top of trauma from WWII, 1950s persecutions and collectivisation, and the 1968 invasion). With the help of the surviving western European states, including Switzerland and remaining parts of Hungary, Austria and Poland, Czechoslovakia is capable to start slowly rebuilding. Nevertheless, they're in an ugly situation. Most of the industry has been destroyed, they've suffered through a huge loss of life, many cities, cultural heritage treasures and institutions have been obliterated, and they had to live through another war led by military warlords (and, to an extent, had to fight some of their local lackeys who chose to be quislings out of convenience).

One of the sad ironies of The Exchange in former Czechoslovakia is that some of the biggest surviving towns and cities in the country would be smaller and often quaint historical towns that don't have much military and economic significance. As I have implied in the only drafts I've posted, Bardejov would become the replacement capital city of the federal land Slovakia. It would be one of the biggest surviving towns that is also remote enough to rebuild easily and was far enough away from any fallout or other negative effects. :p Also, it's a rather pretty city and worthy of being a capital until Bratislava is rebuilt one day, along with the other bigger cities. :) And, during the more strained months and years of the initial crisis, you could theoretically reuse its reconstructed fortifications for defence (Bardejov and Levoča are often seen as the Carcassone of Slovakia). :cool:

Tourist centres in the mountains and remote rural areas would also be mostly fine, though the fallout from the war would be as dangerous as in any European country. I bet people (especially close to the hard-hit areas) would have to rely on canned goods for at least a year before bothering to eat fruit again. It is very difficult to estimate what the refugee situation would be in the spring of The Exchange, but some people might flee in advance and you'd see refugee camps at the relatively safe areas and the potential issues that could emerge from it. The rest of the people, especially if they don't get the news about The Exchange soon enough and remain in the cities ? Yeah, they'll be better off perishing in the blasts... :(

An economic aspect I thought about would be the lack of fuel stores after the first few months. Czechoslovakia barely has any fossil fuels of its own, and not adequate to power vehicles. With imports disrupted possibly forever, they will have to find other solutions for the time being. First planes and armoured vehicles would have to be grounded, then increasingly whatever cars are left. I think the last fuel reserves would be used for tractors and undemanding multi-purpose trucks like the sturdy V3S (granted, the V3S is a pretty big gas-guzzler, so it wouldn't last in service forever either). The resistance would also be forced to stealthily blow up a fuel store or two to limit the warlords from using vehicles to terrorize people. Electricity would also be rare, because virtually all of the large power stations were either blown up, or escaped, but couldn't be kept going and couldn't utilise a severely damaged grid. Most electricity is provided by whatever small local powerplants are available, including local hydroelectric plants, often old ones dating back to from before WWII or even WWI. I think the town of Kežmarok would be one of the few to have its own supply of electricity, since they have one such entirely local and isolated old-school powerplant. In the later phase of the Days of the Wolf, civilians and soldiers would often be forced to use horse-drawn wagons and carts, and the war would have to be largelly fought by infantry and maybe some mounted infantry on horses. Pretty much guerilla style fighting, sort of a Slovak National Uprising, but with some 1980s technology, instead of 1940s tech. Things wouldn't regress to some medieval level, but 19th century is a distinct possibility, what with the lack of fuel for cars, trains and planes, and the lack of reliable electricity and severely destroyed industrial infrastructure and energy networks around the country. Ironically, the liberated and transitioning Czechoslovakia might attempt early forays into simpler renewable energy, until they can rebuild the energy sector.

One of several storylines I had planned for the timeline (to show multiple perspectives, i.e. various civilians, various soldiers, etc.) was a group of young conscript soldiers and NCOs who were part of an engineer company equipped with SKOT APCs. After The Exchange happened, they all decided "Screw this !" and deserted the ČSLA along with their APC, at the right opportunity. Hilarity ensues (as much at it can after a nuclear war), when they run into a village terrorised by bandits and inadvertently fall into a "Robin Hood" or "The Magnificent Seven" sort of role, saving the locals. Later in the story, they are forced to abandon the SKOT, as it has no more fuel and they can't get any. Some of them travel to their homes on foot (even hundreds of kilometres away), some stay among locals and settle down for a while if they have no other place to go.

The working title of my timeline was The Sun Sets Behind the High Hill, because ČSLA conscript soldiers of the 1970s and 1980s, doing their two-year basic military service, tended to sing this bawdy little song:

The Sun sets behind the high hill
Another day has gone down the shitter
Oh, thank God !

We wait for another day
On and on we wait
Wait for us until we return as civilians


So that probably concludes everything I would have or could have said about my former plans for my own spinoff.

I don't think my heart is really in it these days, and I have some big delays in some of my other stories already. I have to be picky with projects.

Draft of the epilogue, Part I + note, Draft of the epilogue, Part II - both posted in January and February 2013

Let us, as ever, cherish the fact that for all the flaws of our contemporary world and the recent decades, we still live in a world that did not have to go through The Exchange.
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Hello, everybody. Can I ask something from every Turk(if there is)? Can any of you make a Protect and Survive spinoff which sets in Turkey?
Somebody would ask: Why you don't do it? Here is the answer. I tried to do one, but it was really bad. I am not angry to myself, as I was fourteen at that time but I want people to forget my disgusting story by someone making a great (or at least good) Turkish spinoff about Turkey. I also love my country and I think, if people remember Turkish Protect and Survive as my bad spinoff, it would be bad for it(or I will became sad for few days and then I would forget it.)
So, can any of you make a Turkish Protect and Survive spinoff?
Note:I hope this is the right place to write it.

If you're knowledgeable about Turkish history in the early 1980s, feel free to write your own story. :)

Yes, it takes some initial research and consideration, but there's a lot you can do in an established setting like this one, even while keeping consistency in mind. Turkey and the Mediterranean have barely been covered or even much mentioned, so you have a golden opportunity.
Has anyone come up with ideas for stories involving Japan and/or both Koreas in the P and S Universe?
I was interested in doing a P&S for the Philippines but I lack ideas. Japan and Korea get mentions in some of the spin-offs. One thing is certain Japan is hammered with Soviet nuclear attacks on both JSDF and USFJ bases. The same could be said for South Korea. I'm interested to know how the reignited Korean War occurs here.
I think its been discussed but no written story comes to mind. I think it was one of those "everyone dies in WW3 but like, seriously, everyone here dies" type situations.
Just a quick response while I see it and am actually on this site for a change:

South Korea gets hammered like Heilongjiang and Jilin Provinces in the Chinese Northeast, but nastier. The DPRK had already embedded enough heavy artillery on retracting firing mechanisms in the hillsides above the DMZ to turn downtown Seoul into a firestorm by the late 1970s, and that was with Soviet assistance. Once you're getting into P&S levels of strategic exchange, the likelihood of the DPRK pulling out its chemical warheads increases to approximately 100%. Kim Il-Sung knew that the North would be a viable target for theater and tactical warheads stationed in Okinawa and the Japanese Home Islands, so odds are good that he'd cause collateral damage to the tune of most of Seoul.

My bet would be that he'd quickly pull out the white phosphorous and high explosive rounds in the first round of bombardment, followed by a few waves of Sarin, Mustard Gas, and Phosgene after to clear the outer suburbs of Seoul for invasion. Follow that with a ground assault over the DMZ against the South Korean military and remaining UN forces. They're not going to capture Seoul; the US had enough air support in the Home Islands to guarantee South Korea's survival until the strategic exchange and stop the North Korean invasion. Seoul will be a shattered ruin before the final exchange, likely as will be Incheon. Busan is too far away to hit with artillery and too well guarded by Home Islands USAF, Navy, and Marine air cover, so it'll probably soak up a medium theater warhead from the Soviets.

The killer for the Korean Peninsula won't be the exchange; other than Pyongyang, Seoul, Busan, and maybe Chongjin, there's not a whole lot on either side of the DMZ in 1984 worthy of anything more than a larger theater warhead (100-450 KT). Their problem will be when the winds shift, they're going to get fallout blown south from the Chinese Northeast, east from the major strikes in Beijing, Tianjin and the Shandong Peninsula, and west from the Japanese Home Islands. That, plus atmospheric migration of heavy smoke from the fires will carry ungodly amounts of radiation in the soot that will fall either as ashes or as the infamous black rain from the Hiroshima and Nagasaki strikes. If it falls on the snowpack, the worst of the transported radiation could end up melting into the peninsula's water supply during spring thaw.

Plus, the Korean Peninsula is the recipient of a local environmental process known in Korean as "Hwangsa" (Kosa in Japanese). It is a seasonal process where Gobi Desert dust is lofted by early spring winds coming off the Taklamakan Desert and Tibetan Plateau and blown out over the Peninsula and the Japanese Home Islands. It's actually an important process for delivering high amounts of iron-rich soil to the area which aids in providing nutrients to the soil which assists in growing high yield crops like rice, wheat, and barley. If you remember my one-off chapter on strikes in Mongolia, the Gobi Desert was the site of a few large battles and heavily radioactive dirty bombs used by the Soviets and PLA. When the Hwangsa picks up in April, it's going to loft both the usual dust as well as some of the heavier radiation patches and carry that out over the Korean Peninsula.

So, in short: Both Korea's are going to get the short end of the stick; Pyongyang and Seoul are gone in the strikes, Busan by a Soviet theater warhead. Neither government will survive the war, and the Peninsula is going to be ground zero for the worst instance of international fallout migration outside of Czechoslovakia, Austria, and Hungary. They're going to get fallout from three of four cardinal directions, from natural environmental transportation mechanisms, and the food supply from the East China Sea will have low levels of radiation if it's a shallow water species and goes anywhere near the coastal strikes in China or Japan.

In summation: You don't want to live in Korea after the war.
Just keep in mind: South Korea's economic miracle didn't take place quite yet. The economic reforms were just taking hold in the country, and the military junta was still in control after the 1980 coup d'etat by General Chun Doo-Hwan. Seoul, Busan, and Incheon weren't big modern cities at that point, and South Korea had just overtaken the North in terms of GDP and Gini Coefficient standings in the mid-1970s. Most manufacturing was still small scale and the big tech powerhouses like Samsung and LG were just getting on their feet. Not a lot of viable targets for Soviet strikes and largely an agrarian country.
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I always had a question in my mind about this timeline's Albania. Did it join to war or did it stay away from it? If it did stay away from it, did it try to take unhurt, Albanian majority lands from Yugoslavia's corpse?
I have more questions actually(which I ask because I want to use this for mod project I plan)
I. Who can be the Prime Minister of UK in 2007? I want a One Nation Conservative but I don't know who can be good (or alive) for it.
II. What will be the economic policies in UK? I don't except Thatcherite policies due to nuclear war but I don't expect full communism either. So, what could it be?
III. Which parties can survive the nuclear storm? I was thinking the Liberals and Conservatives with a small Social Democrat presence.
IV. What will happen to coal industries? I think, they will survive thanks to the war and no Thatcher.
Well, that is some of the questions, I can think. I will write a lot more question, later.
Note:I know I asked the same questions to pretty much every big names in P&S universe but I will still ask these questions to the thread as well.
The launching of total war against Ukraine tonight by Russia after a slow-boiling crisis in the same days as our fictional world seemed too on the nose to not remark about.

May God keep this from going any further than Ukraine.