What would it take for the Allies to kick out the SU?

As it says what would cause the allies to kick out the SU? A couple of major spy rings? Revelation of the SU massacre in Poland?
 

Garrison

Donor
Something that would make FDR and Churchill to say bug off to Stalin
Can't think of anything, its not like they weren't aware of some of the atrocities committed by the Soviets and given the Red Army was tying down the bulk of the Wehrmacht they are more likely to sweep things under the carpet until the war is won.
 
Think it would take more than that, out of pragmatic military necessity. Churchill was was willing to make considerable concessions to the Russians - I'm reminded of that map that shows "zones of influence" among the nations of Eastern Europe, each with a percentage marked (in Churchill's writing), of the relative influence of the west compared to the influence of the Soviets in a post-war settlement... Churchill was prepared to concede quite a bit...
 
They would have had to obtain the atomic bomb in like 1942 and a good way to deliver it. Without the SU who pays the butcher bill to topple the third reich?
 
Think it would take more than that, out of pragmatic military necessity. Churchill was was willing to make considerable concessions to the Russians - I'm reminded of that map that shows "zones of influence" among the nations of Eastern Europe, each with a percentage marked (in Churchill's writing), of the relative influence of the west compared to the influence of the Soviets in a post-war settlement... Churchill was prepared to concede quite a bit...
Churchill is persuadable.
 
As it says what would cause the allies to kick out the SU? A couple of major spy rings? Revelation of the SU massacre in Poland?

The Allies knew about Katyn (which was in Russia, by the way). They either just didn't care or they believed the Soviet lie that it was the Nazis who perpetrated the act.

All along Stalin was intent on installing his Polish creatures based in Lublin as a postwar communist government. The Polish government in exile in London, by contrast, wanted to investigate the Katyn massacres. Roosevelt's response? "I am inclined to think that Prime Minister Churchill will find a way of prevailing upon the Polish government in London in the future to act with more common sense,"

"We have been obliged to . . . restrain the Poles from putting their case clearly before the public, to discourage any attempts by the public and the press to probe the ugly story to the bottom," wrote Owen O'Malley, Britain's ambassador to the Polish government in exile, in a May, 1943 letter. "We have in fact perforce used the good name of England like the murderers used the conifers to cover up a massacre."

 
What is it here?
Are the allies quitting the war and letting Stalin deal with Hitler?

Or are we just having two wars but no big three alliance?
 
You sit Stalin down, you look him dead in the eyes, and you tell him “Dude, don’t occupy anyone else’s country”.

He would have to be awfully evil if that doesn’t work.
 
You could have the Japan try blockading Russian ports in the far east, since most of the Lend-Lease aid arrived via that route, but that wouldn't be the western allies abandoning the USSR. Also there would still be some aid via other trade routes, not to mention the right POD to get Japan to focus more on Russia or at least be more hawkish towards them.
 
You sit Stalin down, you look him dead in the eyes, and you tell him “Dude, don’t occupy anyone else’s country”.

He would have to be awfully evil if that doesn’t work.
That would be like showing up for dinner at Hannibal Lecter house and not bringing a bottle of good wine.

The most likely response would be:
"It's comrade Dude to you. How many nazis have you killed?"

Fact is, the Wallies were perfectly happy to let the USSR do most of the land fighting, and would let Stalin do whatever he wanted until Germany was defeated. Then. Like captain Renault in Casablanca, they could say: I just found out there is a Gulag at the back of this café, it's unaceptable"

One should remember that after the end of the war the allies handed over a lot of people back to the Soviets to be killed.
 
The Allies knew about Katyn (which was in Russia, by the way). They either just didn't care or they believed the Soviet lie that it was the Nazis who perpetrated the act.





We knew, we had ENIGMA intercepts from when the German units who found the execution site and initial details of their investigation. We knew it wasn't the Germans which meant it certainly was the Russians unless the Poles shot themselves and buried themselves in a proverbial shallow grave.

The only way the WALLIES would have done anything about the Russian seizure of Eastern Europe is if they had absolute proof that Stalin had no intention of stopping anywhere other than the Spanish border.
 

Well, FDR was replaced--by Truman, who like any conceivable American president at the time believed that the alliance had to continue for the time being, whatever his disagreements with Stalin. (One can even argue that Truman made more unnecessary concessions to Stalin at Potsdam than FDR did at Yalta.)

And as for Churchill, I'll repeat a recent post of mine:

***


A good corrective to the stereotypes many people have about Churchill and FDR: https://winstonchurchill.org/the-life-of-churchill/war-leader/yalta-1945/

"...Churchill himself had been the sponsor, if not the author, of many of the concessions on Poland. When, at the Teheran Conference, he took matchsticks and demonstrated to Stalin how the Poles and Russians could each move westward at Germany’s expense by executing the parade ground maneuver “left close,” he had, as in 1942, accepted Stalin’s solution. Details such as the fate of Lvov, or which river boundary to follow, were just that—details. A few weeks later the Prime Minister told Roosevelt that Soviet proposals for their frontier with Poland gave “the Poles a fine place to live,” with ample space and a coastline on the Baltic. Poland’s responsibility to the great powers was, Churchill insisted, to accept the “duty” of guarding “against further German aggression upon Russia...

"Churchill and Roosevelt had, for their own reasons—whether or not we agree with those reasons is beside the point—acquiesced throughout the war to Soviet domination of Eastern Europe."
 
Simple.

Convince the American, Australian, British, Canadian, et al people it's totally cool millions of their sons and fathers will die so the nation's morals are preserved.
 
Simple.

Convince the American, Australian, British, Canadian, et al people it's totally cool millions of their sons and fathers will die so the nation's morals are preserved.
Exactly. To the Western allied politicians of the time, every German soldier the Soviets kill is one that isn't going to kill "our boys". More cynically every Soviet soldier the Germans kill is one "our boys" aren't going to have to face later, let the B******s bleed each other white.
 
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