What would it take for the Allies to kick out the SU?
- Thread starter docfl
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Garrison
Donor
Can't think of anything, its not like they weren't aware of some of the atrocities committed by the Soviets and given the Red Army was tying down the bulk of the Wehrmacht they are more likely to sweep things under the carpet until the war is won.
Think it would take more than that, out of pragmatic military necessity. Churchill was was willing to make considerable concessions to the Russians - I'm reminded of that map that shows "zones of influence" among the nations of Eastern Europe, each with a percentage marked (in Churchill's writing), of the relative influence of the west compared to the influence of the Soviets in a post-war settlement... Churchill was prepared to concede quite a bit...
They would have had to obtain the atomic bomb in like 1942 and a good way to deliver it. Without the SU who pays the butcher bill to topple the third reich?
The Allies knew about Katyn (which was in Russia, by the way). They either just didn't care or they believed the Soviet lie that it was the Nazis who perpetrated the act.
The Katyn Massacre Cover-Up
Churchill and Roosevelt helped Stalin hide mass murder.
nationalinterest.org
You sit Stalin down, you look him dead in the eyes, and you tell him “Dude, don’t occupy anyone else’s country”.
He would have to be awfully evil if that doesn’t work.
He would have to be awfully evil if that doesn’t work.
You could have the Japan try blockading Russian ports in the far east, since most of the Lend-Lease aid arrived via that route, but that wouldn't be the western allies abandoning the USSR. Also there would still be some aid via other trade routes, not to mention the right POD to get Japan to focus more on Russia or at least be more hawkish towards them.
That would be like showing up for dinner at Hannibal Lecter house and not bringing a bottle of good wine.
The most likely response would be:
"It's comrade Dude to you. How many nazis have you killed?"
Fact is, the Wallies were perfectly happy to let the USSR do most of the land fighting, and would let Stalin do whatever he wanted until Germany was defeated. Then. Like captain Renault in Casablanca, they could say: I just found out there is a Gulag at the back of this café, it's unaceptable"
One should remember that after the end of the war the allies handed over a lot of people back to the Soviets to be killed.
We knew, we had ENIGMA intercepts from when the German units who found the execution site and initial details of their investigation. We knew it wasn't the Germans which meant it certainly was the Russians unless the Poles shot themselves and buried themselves in a proverbial shallow grave.The Allies knew about Katyn (which was in Russia, by the way). They either just didn't care or they believed the Soviet lie that it was the Nazis who perpetrated the act.
The Katyn Massacre Cover-Up
Churchill and Roosevelt helped Stalin hide mass murder.
The only way the WALLIES would have done anything about the Russian seizure of Eastern Europe is if they had absolute proof that Stalin had no intention of stopping anywhere other than the Spanish border.
Well, FDR was replaced--by Truman, who like any conceivable American president at the time believed that the alliance had to continue for the time being, whatever his disagreements with Stalin. (One can even argue that Truman made more unnecessary concessions to Stalin at Potsdam than FDR did at Yalta.)
And as for Churchill, I'll repeat a recent post of mine:
***
A good corrective to the stereotypes many people have about Churchill and FDR: https://winstonchurchill.org/the-life-of-churchill/war-leader/yalta-1945/
"...Churchill himself had been the sponsor, if not the author, of many of the concessions on Poland. When, at the Teheran Conference, he took matchsticks and demonstrated to Stalin how the Poles and Russians could each move westward at Germany’s expense by executing the parade ground maneuver “left close,” he had, as in 1942, accepted Stalin’s solution. Details such as the fate of Lvov, or which river boundary to follow, were just that—details. A few weeks later the Prime Minister told Roosevelt that Soviet proposals for their frontier with Poland gave “the Poles a fine place to live,” with ample space and a coastline on the Baltic. Poland’s responsibility to the great powers was, Churchill insisted, to accept the “duty” of guarding “against further German aggression upon Russia...
"Churchill and Roosevelt had, for their own reasons—whether or not we agree with those reasons is beside the point—acquiesced throughout the war to Soviet domination of Eastern Europe."
Exactly. To the Western allied politicians of the time, every German soldier the Soviets kill is one that isn't going to kill "our boys". More cynically every Soviet soldier the Germans kill is one "our boys" aren't going to have to face later, let the B******s bleed each other white.