What would have happened if the portuguese had conquered japan?

There dose not exist a time when there was a big enough gap between Portuguese and Japanese weapons/tactics that Portugal (or pretty much any pre-industrial European power) would be strong enough to take Japan, even if it was split up and warring /at the time/ of the Portuguese invasion.
 
Bar a decimated Japan by some sort of catastrophic events, it would definitely not happen. Demographics are clearly not favouring Portugal, critically with a Japan on its way (or already being) the largest manufacturer of gunpowder weapons in the world.
 
Japan has always been larger than France, AFAIK; the Largest Nation in Europe until the 1800, the century Japan /Westernized/

TBH Portugal was, as far as I know never interested (or at least never made much effort at) the far east; they were content with dominating India which they did until the 1600s.

Its not impossible, as most nothing in History is.
However Portugal would need to build up, have alliances within and probably outside but near Japan; and then throw in a Civil War maybe Portugal could get some southern ports from which to expand however the Japanese would probably retake these while Portugal was at war over some Island somewhere...
 
Aztecs and Incas. It's not outside the realm of possibility.

Aztecs-thought Cortes was a God at first, had a huge technological disadvantage, and the Spanish rallied together the Aztecs enemies

Inca-Ravaged by disease and civil war on top of huge technological disadvantage
 
Aztecs and Incas. It's not outside the realm of possibility.

Epidemics killing an awful part of the population, weakening survivors.
Many local allies, pissed off Aztec rule.
Technological edge.

Japan had a demographical advantage, not weakened by epidemics, different Japanese lord states weren't really about paying lip service to Portugal, and Japan mastered weaponry as well.

Edit : Ninja'ed by Gurroruo, even if I'd tone down the "they tought he was a god", that is heavily used by Conquistador chronicles, as "they were gullible, their paganism was their downfall, and we totally look as gods for them" parts.
 
Aztecs and Incas. It's not outside the realm of possibility.

Oh yeah because they're the same people :rolleyes:

One was a primitive stone-age esque culture that was so technologically behind the Europeans it wasn't fair (Mesoamericans had little in the way of metalworking and cavalry and guns were completely new), but the biggest kicker was disease which swept the Meso-American Empires and helped tear the heart out of them. Also note that some of the major Mesoamerican powers were states of decline (eg. Inca) or were hated by their neighbours which the Europeans happily exploited (eg. Aztecs). The Japanese having contact with Eurasia were not affected in the same manner by disease and they were far more technologically advanced than any Mesoamerican culture, advanced enough to make a fight against them much more difficult, too difficult for Portugal barring some huge screw.
 
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A miracle. It would happen a miracle.

At some point in the late 16th century a spanish ship met a group of japanasr small ships (probably privateers) foraging north of Luzon.They rushed to take the news to Manila, and every spaniard in the Philipines shited bricks for a time, including the dispacht of messengers to Madrid asking for reinforcements and money to upgrade (pretty much create) the deffences of Manila. They already knew that japanese demographical superiority alone was enough to sweep any european outspot, let alone the possibility of invading Japan. Also, iberians get very impressed by the samurai warrior code and had great respect fr japanese warring ability and spirit

If you can read spanish, "Hidalgos y Samurais" covers this subject, amibgst ithers sudes of the early iberian-japanese contacts. For the relations between the criwns and subjects of Philip II and Philip III with Japan, "Historia de un desencuentro" by Emilio Sola is probably the mis complete work about the subjet, even if a bit outdated.
 
Bar a decimated Japan by some sort of catastrophic events, it would definitely not happen. Demographics are clearly not favouring Portugal, critically with a Japan on its way (or already being) the largest manufacturer of gunpowder weapons in the world.
But I thought guns were banned in japan at one point.
 
But I thought guns were banned in japan at one point.
Even at the most repressive stages of the Shogunate, that was never really a complete ban on guns. It was more of a gun control thing to prevent citizens from carrying firearms.

Ignoring the fact that that is in the completely wrong time period.
 
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But I thought guns were banned in japan at one point.
At one point, but as Kome said, it was never really applied, and happened in the XVIIth century.

Quoting the Armenian Genocide.

From the mid-17th century, Japan decided to close itself to interaction with the West through its policy of Sakoku. Contrary to popular belief, this did not lead to Japan "giving up the gun." If anything, the gun was used less frequently because the Edo Period did not have many large-scale conflicts in which a gun would be of use. Oftentimes the sword was simply the more practical weapon in the average small-scale Edo Period conflicts. Nevertheless, there is evidence of around 200 gunsmiths in Japan by the end of the Edo Period, indicating that the gun was not in any sense relinquished.
 
Well, could you instead have portugal or another european power invade during the 17th century?

Your missing that point that they still had guns, and Europe wasn't much stronger than them.

They were also as big as France, the country that constantly beat the shit out of all of Europe, as well as had more guns.

As i've said its not impossible but this isn't the Industrial Age where Japan can be defeated by sheer might; there is also no US equivalent even if it was...
 
Well, could you instead have portugal or another european power invade during the 17th century?

Portugal was in no position to invade anyone by the XVIIth century; Dutch would be really pissed at any attempt; England would be pissed that Dutch would be pissed; France wouldn't care about.

It lets Spain, with limited manpower and already trying to not loose European hegemon, against Japanese demographics, that didn't stopped to produce guns (it's not because you're no longer the first worldwide producer that you suddenly gives it up) and in a context where allying with local forces is definitly impossible.

Operation Ashika would probably be fitting.
 
Your missing that point that they still had guns, and Europe wasn't much stronger than them.

They were also as big as France, the country that constantly beat the shit out of all of Europe, as well as had more guns.

As i've said its not impossible but this isn't the Industrial Age where Japan can be defeated by sheer might; there is also no US equivalent even if it was...

Are you really sure japan had more guns than france during the edo priod?
 
Portugal was in no position to invade anyone by the XVIIth century; Dutch would be really pissed at any attempt; England would be pissed that Dutch would be pissed; France wouldn't care about.

It lets Spain, with limited manpower and already trying to not loose European hegemon, against Japanese demographics, that didn't stopped to produce guns (it's not because you're no longer the first worldwide producer that you suddenly gives it up) and in a context where allying with local forces is definitly impossible.

Operation Ashika would probably be fitting.

Okay then lets have spain invade japan
 
Are you really sure japan had more guns than france during the edo priod?
They had a lot. Fabrication slowed down, but you have to count on a really important production in the previous century that dwarfed "national" productions of Europeans.
French production catched up (in numbers and quality), but it doesn't mean that Japan forgot how to use and make them.

Okay then lets have spain invade japan

Okay, they fail miserably, loose a lot of men and ressources, and allows Netherlands, England and France to take their share on Spanish dominions.
 
Catholic missionaries are allowed to come and convert a huge part of the population. Then the emperor gets scary about it forbids it. Large parts of the population rise up and remove the emperor and put a catholic on throne. He invites Portuguese advisors and stuff and basically turns Japan into a Portuguese protectocate. Does this count?
 
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