Started reading this and I was surprised by this sudden dark turn
As for President Lieberman...Welp...Lets hope he does a good job.
To the Edge and Maybe Over: An Alternate 21st Century
- Thread starter Anarcho-Occultist
- Start date
Started reading this and I was surprised by this sudden dark turn
As for President Lieberman...Welp...Lets hope he does a good job.
Part 11
Part 11
US AIRCRAFT SHOT DOWN IN PERSIAN GULF
-Headline of The Washington Post, March 2, 2005
"Let me clear: I am 100% confident that Iran was the perpetrator of this attack. Our aircraft was en route to Iraq from a base in Qatar and was over international waters at the time of the attack. This act of aggression by Iraq is in my opinion an act of war by the Islamic Republic of Iran."
-Secretary of State John McCain, March 6, 2005
"The Americans should be careful about what they say on these matters. We are a proud country and we will not simply bow. Their aircraft was in violation of sovereign Iranian airspace-to us, this is an act of unprovoked aggression."
-President Mahmoud Ahmedenijad, March 6, 2005
"There is a struggle within the Lieberman administration over how to proceed in the wake of this attack. In an unusual reversal of expected dynamics, it is the State Department under McCain that is advocating for a military response to the incident. The Secretary of State is convinced that the Iranian regime is a paper tiger that will crumble quickly, paving the way for a democratic Iran that is favorable to the US. Meanwhile, the Defense Department is considerably more reluctant, expressing concern that a military action against Iran would take considerably manpower and face severe difficulties."
-Excerpt from the Atlantic article 'How Iran is dividing the White House', published March 13, 2005
"My fellow Americans, I do not make this decision lightly. However, the Iranian regime has consistently proven to be a threat to American interests and a booster of terrorist threats to our country. This recent attack on us cannot go unchallenged. As of today, I am launching military action against Iran, on the basis that the Authorization for the Use of Military Force we passed in 2002 granted military authorization to address 'any terrorist threats to the United States.' As of today, we consider the Iranian armed forces to be such a terrorist threat."
-President Joe Lieberman, April 29, 2005
US AIR FORCE BEGINS BOMBING IRANIAN MILITARY INSTALLATIONS
LIEBERMAN ORDERS DRAWING UP OF RESERVISTS TO PREPARE FOR GROUND INVASION OF IRAN
IRANIAN-ALIGNED MILITIAS IN IRAQ SEIZE IRAQI ARMY DEPOTS THANKS TO MASS DEFECTIONS
ANTIWAR RALLY ON WASHINGTON MALL DRAWS 30,000 PEOPLE
REPRESENTATIVE RON PAUL INTRODUCES IMPEACHMENT RESOLUTION CLAIMING LIEBERMAN ADMINISTRATION IS OVERRIDING CONGRESSIONAL WAR AUTHORITY
AMPHIBIOUS LANDING OF 10,00O TROOPS CARRIED OUT IN PERSIAN GULF
-Headlines of The Washington Post, April-August 2005
"At the time, I had no idea how Qom was supposed to look-I had seen few images of the city. Even so, while I walked through the streets of the ruined city, I could see how horribly we had destroyed it. The buildings were crumbling. We only used conventional munitions, but the thing it reminded me the most of was photos I had seen of Hiroshima after the bombings. We took the city-but in the process we killed it. I think that was the moment I decided we were doing the wrong thing."
-Excerpt from An Appalachian Life by Governor Richard Ojeda, published April 16, 2019
"Initially, I was supportive of this invasion. The Ayatollah's regime has inflicted mass suffering upon the people and imposed a totalitarian theocracy on the country. However, in the wake of the images coming out of Qom, I have come to reconsider my position. I will never support or condone the actions of the Ayatollahs-who even now order their people to die for a perverted version of Islam. But I am deeply concerned by the US's actions in my home country."
-Reza Pahlavi after the 'Desolation of Qom', September 2, 2005
"The Shiraz massacre was a mass murder carried out in the Iranian city of Shiraz by members of the US Army. On September 11, 2005, a group of 22 US soldiers rounded up dozens of civilians residing within the city of Shiraz and proceeded to gun them down in the streets. The massacre carried on for 23 minutes before it was interrupted by the intervention of a Navy SEAL team under the command of Dan Crenshaw, who forced the perpetrators to back down. The massacre was originally kept under wraps until details of it were leaked by Corporal Tulsi Gabbard in January of 2006.
-Excerpt from the Wikipedia article on the Shiraz massacre
"It was the revelation of the Shiraz massacre that finally ensured the Iran War would conclude. The grounds for the war were still under dispute and the president was unable to provide proof that the US narrative was correct. The insurgency in Iran remained as strong as ever and the core of the Iranian government retained control of Tehran and the bulk of the Iranian interior. Members of Congress-on both sides of the aisle-were arguing the war was illegal and threatened to impeach the president. While the impeachment failed thanks to the president's allies, public opinion shifted against the war far quicker than it had for Iraq or Afghanistan. For this reason, on March 2, 2006, Lieberman announced the US had negotiated a ceasefire with Iran's government. Unlike the other wars he had started, Lieberman would end this one, but it would be the first war that the country saw as a loss since Vietnam."
-Excerpt from the epilogue of the book The Iran War: A Brief History by Edward Snowden, published April 2020
US AIRCRAFT SHOT DOWN IN PERSIAN GULF
-Headline of The Washington Post, March 2, 2005
"Let me clear: I am 100% confident that Iran was the perpetrator of this attack. Our aircraft was en route to Iraq from a base in Qatar and was over international waters at the time of the attack. This act of aggression by Iraq is in my opinion an act of war by the Islamic Republic of Iran."
-Secretary of State John McCain, March 6, 2005
"The Americans should be careful about what they say on these matters. We are a proud country and we will not simply bow. Their aircraft was in violation of sovereign Iranian airspace-to us, this is an act of unprovoked aggression."
-President Mahmoud Ahmedenijad, March 6, 2005
"There is a struggle within the Lieberman administration over how to proceed in the wake of this attack. In an unusual reversal of expected dynamics, it is the State Department under McCain that is advocating for a military response to the incident. The Secretary of State is convinced that the Iranian regime is a paper tiger that will crumble quickly, paving the way for a democratic Iran that is favorable to the US. Meanwhile, the Defense Department is considerably more reluctant, expressing concern that a military action against Iran would take considerably manpower and face severe difficulties."
-Excerpt from the Atlantic article 'How Iran is dividing the White House', published March 13, 2005
"My fellow Americans, I do not make this decision lightly. However, the Iranian regime has consistently proven to be a threat to American interests and a booster of terrorist threats to our country. This recent attack on us cannot go unchallenged. As of today, I am launching military action against Iran, on the basis that the Authorization for the Use of Military Force we passed in 2002 granted military authorization to address 'any terrorist threats to the United States.' As of today, we consider the Iranian armed forces to be such a terrorist threat."
-President Joe Lieberman, April 29, 2005
US AIR FORCE BEGINS BOMBING IRANIAN MILITARY INSTALLATIONS
LIEBERMAN ORDERS DRAWING UP OF RESERVISTS TO PREPARE FOR GROUND INVASION OF IRAN
IRANIAN-ALIGNED MILITIAS IN IRAQ SEIZE IRAQI ARMY DEPOTS THANKS TO MASS DEFECTIONS
ANTIWAR RALLY ON WASHINGTON MALL DRAWS 30,000 PEOPLE
REPRESENTATIVE RON PAUL INTRODUCES IMPEACHMENT RESOLUTION CLAIMING LIEBERMAN ADMINISTRATION IS OVERRIDING CONGRESSIONAL WAR AUTHORITY
AMPHIBIOUS LANDING OF 10,00O TROOPS CARRIED OUT IN PERSIAN GULF
-Headlines of The Washington Post, April-August 2005
"At the time, I had no idea how Qom was supposed to look-I had seen few images of the city. Even so, while I walked through the streets of the ruined city, I could see how horribly we had destroyed it. The buildings were crumbling. We only used conventional munitions, but the thing it reminded me the most of was photos I had seen of Hiroshima after the bombings. We took the city-but in the process we killed it. I think that was the moment I decided we were doing the wrong thing."
-Excerpt from An Appalachian Life by Governor Richard Ojeda, published April 16, 2019
"Initially, I was supportive of this invasion. The Ayatollah's regime has inflicted mass suffering upon the people and imposed a totalitarian theocracy on the country. However, in the wake of the images coming out of Qom, I have come to reconsider my position. I will never support or condone the actions of the Ayatollahs-who even now order their people to die for a perverted version of Islam. But I am deeply concerned by the US's actions in my home country."
-Reza Pahlavi after the 'Desolation of Qom', September 2, 2005
"The Shiraz massacre was a mass murder carried out in the Iranian city of Shiraz by members of the US Army. On September 11, 2005, a group of 22 US soldiers rounded up dozens of civilians residing within the city of Shiraz and proceeded to gun them down in the streets. The massacre carried on for 23 minutes before it was interrupted by the intervention of a Navy SEAL team under the command of Dan Crenshaw, who forced the perpetrators to back down. The massacre was originally kept under wraps until details of it were leaked by Corporal Tulsi Gabbard in January of 2006.
-Excerpt from the Wikipedia article on the Shiraz massacre
"It was the revelation of the Shiraz massacre that finally ensured the Iran War would conclude. The grounds for the war were still under dispute and the president was unable to provide proof that the US narrative was correct. The insurgency in Iran remained as strong as ever and the core of the Iranian government retained control of Tehran and the bulk of the Iranian interior. Members of Congress-on both sides of the aisle-were arguing the war was illegal and threatened to impeach the president. While the impeachment failed thanks to the president's allies, public opinion shifted against the war far quicker than it had for Iraq or Afghanistan. For this reason, on March 2, 2006, Lieberman announced the US had negotiated a ceasefire with Iran's government. Unlike the other wars he had started, Lieberman would end this one, but it would be the first war that the country saw as a loss since Vietnam."
-Excerpt from the epilogue of the book The Iran War: A Brief History by Edward Snowden, published April 2020
Well, that's a sad waste of life. Still, liking those tidbits with recognizable names.
Glad you liked the recognizable people!
Indeed, this conflict is probably the saddest element of the timeline. It was ultimately a senseless conflict that neither side truly won-Iran was devastated and the US failed to overthrow the regime they were targetting. This conflict is pretty much the low point of the Lieberman administration-not that what's coming is going to be sunshine and roses either, it's just economic problems and issues in Iraq and Afghanistan are less catastrophic than this war was.
That said, it could have easily become way worse. If the US had actually ousted the government in Tehran they'd be stuck in this conflict for the long haul lest they leave a disasterous power vacuum. And if someone like Dick Cheney or Giuliani or McCain himself were in office instead of Lieberman, the withdrawel might not have happened.
I'm glad! That's the intended impact.
Of course, Crenshaw in this case is heavily inspired by a real-world figure-Hugh Thompson, Jr., who helped halt the My Lai massacre in the Vietnam War. He gets a better reception than Thompson did at the least-no treason accusations for instance.
Additionally the whole affair has also ensured TTL's Crenshaw is disillusioned enough by this incident that his politics are going to end up quite different as well (and he might not end up an elected official at all... ).
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So even in TTL there's still a war in Afghanistan and now Iran. Some things don't change. I still live President Lieberman better than Bush and I'm interested to see how he will deal with this attempted impeachment and eventually international support turning against the US.
Part 12
Part 12
"I was grateful for the support of the Republican leadership in our efforts against Iran. They stood up to pressure from some of the more radical elements of their party to pursue impeachment efforts against my administration-something I remain thoroughly grateful for. Speaker Hastert demonstrated the true meaning of 'loyal opposition' in those moments. Unfortunately, the time was fast approaching for them to act as the 'opposition' part."
-Excerpt from President Joe Lieberman's autobiography An Amazing Journey, published 2014
"Senator Hutchison can criticize the Lieberman administration all she wants, but when it comes down to it she has marked lockstep with this president on civil liberties, on foreign policy-I don't think that reflects what Texas wants from their Senator."
-Congressman Ron Paul announcing his primary challenge for US Senate, November 2, 2005
ANTIWAR PROTESTORS INTERRUPT PELOSI TOWNHALL IN SAN FRANCISCO
REPRESENTATIVE BERNIE SANDERS ANNOUNCES BID TO SUCCEED JEFFORDS AS SENATOR
BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, DCCC AND NRCC WORRY ABOUT ANTIWAR PRIMARY CHALLENGERS TO INCUMBENTS
DEM CANDIDATES IN KEY SENATE RACES DISCOURAGE LIEBERMAN APPEARANCES AS PRESIDENTIAL APPROVAL DROPS TO 40%
FORMER PRESIDENTIAL SPEECHWRITER AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE PAT BUCHANAN ANNOUNCES 'NEW AMERICA FIRST COMMITTEE' TO DRAFT ANTIWAR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES
-Headlines of The Washington Post, December 2005-February 2006
"Kurt Bills is not the sort of man you would expect to be a major figure in this year's midterm elections. Bills, a 36-year-old teacher-turned-city councilor, is the sort of political novice you would suspect would be weeded out by the primaries. His libertarian viewpoints seem very much out of step with his native Minnesota. However, Bills' passionate antiwar stances and the growing turn of Republicans in the US towards anti-interventionism allowed him to pull off a massively unexpected victory in the Republican primaries for US Senate. The same antiwar energy that allowed Bills to claim the Republican nomination is additionally bolstering the Independence Party campaign of former Ventura staffer Dean Barkley, who is running to the left of Democratic incumbent Mark Dayton. Available polling data indicates the political novice Bills is within striking distance of Dayton, thanks in part to Barkley and in part due to Dayton's support for Lieberman alienating many supporters within Minnesota. Only time will tell if Bills can translate this momentum to victory, but at this point it would not be impossible."
-Excerpt from a Reason article, published April 2006
"Senator Allen can smear me all he wants. When I compare him to the Vietcong soldiers who tried to kill me-well, he can't quite compare."
-Former Assistant Secretary of the Navy Jim Webb in an interview, April 2006. Webb would go on to successfully primary Senator George Allen and be elected Senator from Virginia
"I find the growing tendency of some others in my party towards isolationism to be deeply troubling. I would have thought we realized that head-in-the-sand foreign policy only yields more problems than it solves-9/11 alone should prove that, let alone the likes of World War II. If the isolationists take over the party, I won't be sticking around."
-Secretary of State John McCain, August 9, 2006
"It is totally disgraceful that the Democratic Party has conceded the civil libertarian and antiwar argument almost in its totality to the Republican Party. Granted, it is not universal-but members of the Democratic Party who have sought to stand up against inappropriate governmental interference with our rights and a militaristic foreign policy have been marginalized systematically. I find the bulk of Republican candidates this cycle to be distasteful in one way or another, but we're in a situation where more Republican candidates are willing to stand against the militarists than Democrats."
-Noam Chomsky in an interview, September 9, 2006
"What we have seen in this past election is a stunning rebuke to Lieberman and the War Party. Dozens of Democratic incumbents lost their seats-often to antiwar Republicans. Just a few years ago, this would have been unthinkable-seeing Ron Paul elected Senator, a libertarian win Minnesota and over a dozen new Congressmen winning while promising to work to get the US out of Iraq and Afghanistan. But Lieberman's aggressive foreign policy stances have alienated progressives. Some of them have outright given up on the Democrats and have been backing libertarian or moderate antiwar Republicans like Lincoln Chafee and Jim Webb. The starkest detail of what has happened, however, is the fact we cannot deny that the Old Right is back once again."
-Justin Raimondo, writing for Antiwar.com, November 8, 2006
"I was grateful for the support of the Republican leadership in our efforts against Iran. They stood up to pressure from some of the more radical elements of their party to pursue impeachment efforts against my administration-something I remain thoroughly grateful for. Speaker Hastert demonstrated the true meaning of 'loyal opposition' in those moments. Unfortunately, the time was fast approaching for them to act as the 'opposition' part."
-Excerpt from President Joe Lieberman's autobiography An Amazing Journey, published 2014
"Senator Hutchison can criticize the Lieberman administration all she wants, but when it comes down to it she has marked lockstep with this president on civil liberties, on foreign policy-I don't think that reflects what Texas wants from their Senator."
-Congressman Ron Paul announcing his primary challenge for US Senate, November 2, 2005
ANTIWAR PROTESTORS INTERRUPT PELOSI TOWNHALL IN SAN FRANCISCO
REPRESENTATIVE BERNIE SANDERS ANNOUNCES BID TO SUCCEED JEFFORDS AS SENATOR
BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, DCCC AND NRCC WORRY ABOUT ANTIWAR PRIMARY CHALLENGERS TO INCUMBENTS
DEM CANDIDATES IN KEY SENATE RACES DISCOURAGE LIEBERMAN APPEARANCES AS PRESIDENTIAL APPROVAL DROPS TO 40%
FORMER PRESIDENTIAL SPEECHWRITER AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE PAT BUCHANAN ANNOUNCES 'NEW AMERICA FIRST COMMITTEE' TO DRAFT ANTIWAR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES
-Headlines of The Washington Post, December 2005-February 2006
"Kurt Bills is not the sort of man you would expect to be a major figure in this year's midterm elections. Bills, a 36-year-old teacher-turned-city councilor, is the sort of political novice you would suspect would be weeded out by the primaries. His libertarian viewpoints seem very much out of step with his native Minnesota. However, Bills' passionate antiwar stances and the growing turn of Republicans in the US towards anti-interventionism allowed him to pull off a massively unexpected victory in the Republican primaries for US Senate. The same antiwar energy that allowed Bills to claim the Republican nomination is additionally bolstering the Independence Party campaign of former Ventura staffer Dean Barkley, who is running to the left of Democratic incumbent Mark Dayton. Available polling data indicates the political novice Bills is within striking distance of Dayton, thanks in part to Barkley and in part due to Dayton's support for Lieberman alienating many supporters within Minnesota. Only time will tell if Bills can translate this momentum to victory, but at this point it would not be impossible."
-Excerpt from a Reason article, published April 2006
"Senator Allen can smear me all he wants. When I compare him to the Vietcong soldiers who tried to kill me-well, he can't quite compare."
-Former Assistant Secretary of the Navy Jim Webb in an interview, April 2006. Webb would go on to successfully primary Senator George Allen and be elected Senator from Virginia
"I find the growing tendency of some others in my party towards isolationism to be deeply troubling. I would have thought we realized that head-in-the-sand foreign policy only yields more problems than it solves-9/11 alone should prove that, let alone the likes of World War II. If the isolationists take over the party, I won't be sticking around."
-Secretary of State John McCain, August 9, 2006
"It is totally disgraceful that the Democratic Party has conceded the civil libertarian and antiwar argument almost in its totality to the Republican Party. Granted, it is not universal-but members of the Democratic Party who have sought to stand up against inappropriate governmental interference with our rights and a militaristic foreign policy have been marginalized systematically. I find the bulk of Republican candidates this cycle to be distasteful in one way or another, but we're in a situation where more Republican candidates are willing to stand against the militarists than Democrats."
-Noam Chomsky in an interview, September 9, 2006
"What we have seen in this past election is a stunning rebuke to Lieberman and the War Party. Dozens of Democratic incumbents lost their seats-often to antiwar Republicans. Just a few years ago, this would have been unthinkable-seeing Ron Paul elected Senator, a libertarian win Minnesota and over a dozen new Congressmen winning while promising to work to get the US out of Iraq and Afghanistan. But Lieberman's aggressive foreign policy stances have alienated progressives. Some of them have outright given up on the Democrats and have been backing libertarian or moderate antiwar Republicans like Lincoln Chafee and Jim Webb. The starkest detail of what has happened, however, is the fact we cannot deny that the Old Right is back once again."
-Justin Raimondo, writing for Antiwar.com, November 8, 2006
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Sad to see the Democrats shifting back to the right. And given the timing of this public turn against them in the polls, I'm guessing that Obama won't be elected in '08?
I will say here the Dems have been consistently Clintonist ‘Third Way’ thanks to Lieberman. So they aren’t shifting right so much as staying there.
You would be correct-here Obama got a lower court appointment by Lieberman and is not currently on track to run for or be elected President. Given the recession is nearing and Lieberman’s foreign policy failings, the Democrats have an uphill battle ahead of them...
Part 13
Part 13
"Oh-well, that is certainly not good."
-CNBC host Larry Kudlow reacting the dip on the stock market, February 16, 2007
"The seeds for the 2007 financial crisis had been brewing for years prior to the crisis beginning. The US federal government and its agencies had for decades been tacitly encouraging banks to make risky loans for subprime mortgages. When these loans couldn't be repaid, major losses were incurred. Much blame at the time was placed on the incumbent government of Joe Lieberman, but the fact was Lieberman was probably not in any position to reverse the buildup to recession."
-Excerpt from the book How an Economy Crashes written by economist Tyler Cowen in 2012
"For the past eight years, Lieberman has not governed the country as a progressive. Instead, he has embraced a foreign policy of undue aggression abroad and pro-corporate economics at home. For too long, we have been cowed away from support for the policies America needs in the name of 'centrism' and 'electability.' I am running to put a stop to this."
-Former Senator Paul Wellstone announcing his bid for the presidency, April 2, 2007
"We need stable leadership in these trying times-responsible conservative policies can fix what is wrong with this country. That's what I believe in and what I will provide to the country."
-Florida Governor Jeb Bush announcing his bid for the presidency, April 14, 2007
"We cannot claim to be a party that stands from freedom and limited government and fiscal responsibility if we go along with Lieberman's wars in the Middle East. As president, I would withdraw our forces from Iraq and Afghanistan and focus on repairing our economy. We can't afford to wage an endless war in the Middle East when we have severe problems at home and we can't support getting the government off our backs while maintaining a surveillance state."
-Senator Ron Paul at a campaign rally in Las Vegas, August 10, 2007
"Lieberman's policies are not perfect, but they have kept America safe from threats abroad. I would change some things, sure-but we need consistent leadership in Washington, not radical pie-in-the-sky promises from someone who lost a Democratic seat in Minnesota of all places."
-Senator John Edwards in the Democratic primary debate hosted in September 2007
"Senator Paul's approach in the 2008 primary cycle has shifted somewhat compared to his 2004 campaign. While the passionate railing against an overbearing government and overseas wars remains, Paul has shifted towards discussion of issues involving race and religion. He has carried out outreach to the Muslim-American community and condemned incidents of racial profiling by the federal government. In addition, he has not shied away from highlighting racial disparities in the criminal justice system. It seems likely that these moves are aimed at broadening his electability arguments and highlighting that he would be a break from the previous Republican candidates, as well as a means of distancing himself from the newsletters that dogged him in 2004."
-Nick Gillespie writing in Reason Magazine, October 8, 2007
PAUL & WELLSTONE WIN IOWA
LIEBERMAN TEAM PRIVATELY URGES BIDEN TO DROP OUT BEFORE SUPER TUESDAY, FEARING VICTORY FOR WELLSTONE
HUCKABEE DISTANCES HIMSELF FROM SANTORUM AFTER ENDORSEMENT RUMORS, SAYING 'I'M MY OWN MAN'
FOLLOWING PAUL GAINING FRONTRUNNER STATUS, SECRETARY MCCAIN CHANGES FORMAL PARTY REGISTRATION TO INDEPENDENT
BIDEN DROPS OUT FOLLOWING POOR SHOWING IN SUPER TUESDAY 2, ENDORSING EDWARDS AS HE DEPARTS THE RACE
-Headlines in The Washington Post, January-June 2008
"So, to be clear...your choice this cycle is a guy who has spent the entire campaign going 'I don't know why everyone's so angry, things are fine right now' and the guy who wants to solve every problem by doing nothing. And the lady who thinks Lieberman did 9/11. Well...f***. It's going to be a looong election."
-Jon Stewart on an episode of The Daily Show aired on June 17, 2008
"Oh-well, that is certainly not good."
-CNBC host Larry Kudlow reacting the dip on the stock market, February 16, 2007
"The seeds for the 2007 financial crisis had been brewing for years prior to the crisis beginning. The US federal government and its agencies had for decades been tacitly encouraging banks to make risky loans for subprime mortgages. When these loans couldn't be repaid, major losses were incurred. Much blame at the time was placed on the incumbent government of Joe Lieberman, but the fact was Lieberman was probably not in any position to reverse the buildup to recession."
-Excerpt from the book How an Economy Crashes written by economist Tyler Cowen in 2012
"For the past eight years, Lieberman has not governed the country as a progressive. Instead, he has embraced a foreign policy of undue aggression abroad and pro-corporate economics at home. For too long, we have been cowed away from support for the policies America needs in the name of 'centrism' and 'electability.' I am running to put a stop to this."
-Former Senator Paul Wellstone announcing his bid for the presidency, April 2, 2007
"We need stable leadership in these trying times-responsible conservative policies can fix what is wrong with this country. That's what I believe in and what I will provide to the country."
-Florida Governor Jeb Bush announcing his bid for the presidency, April 14, 2007
"We cannot claim to be a party that stands from freedom and limited government and fiscal responsibility if we go along with Lieberman's wars in the Middle East. As president, I would withdraw our forces from Iraq and Afghanistan and focus on repairing our economy. We can't afford to wage an endless war in the Middle East when we have severe problems at home and we can't support getting the government off our backs while maintaining a surveillance state."
-Senator Ron Paul at a campaign rally in Las Vegas, August 10, 2007
"Lieberman's policies are not perfect, but they have kept America safe from threats abroad. I would change some things, sure-but we need consistent leadership in Washington, not radical pie-in-the-sky promises from someone who lost a Democratic seat in Minnesota of all places."
-Senator John Edwards in the Democratic primary debate hosted in September 2007
"Senator Paul's approach in the 2008 primary cycle has shifted somewhat compared to his 2004 campaign. While the passionate railing against an overbearing government and overseas wars remains, Paul has shifted towards discussion of issues involving race and religion. He has carried out outreach to the Muslim-American community and condemned incidents of racial profiling by the federal government. In addition, he has not shied away from highlighting racial disparities in the criminal justice system. It seems likely that these moves are aimed at broadening his electability arguments and highlighting that he would be a break from the previous Republican candidates, as well as a means of distancing himself from the newsletters that dogged him in 2004."
-Nick Gillespie writing in Reason Magazine, October 8, 2007
PAUL & WELLSTONE WIN IOWA
LIEBERMAN TEAM PRIVATELY URGES BIDEN TO DROP OUT BEFORE SUPER TUESDAY, FEARING VICTORY FOR WELLSTONE
HUCKABEE DISTANCES HIMSELF FROM SANTORUM AFTER ENDORSEMENT RUMORS, SAYING 'I'M MY OWN MAN'
FOLLOWING PAUL GAINING FRONTRUNNER STATUS, SECRETARY MCCAIN CHANGES FORMAL PARTY REGISTRATION TO INDEPENDENT
BIDEN DROPS OUT FOLLOWING POOR SHOWING IN SUPER TUESDAY 2, ENDORSING EDWARDS AS HE DEPARTS THE RACE
-Headlines in The Washington Post, January-June 2008
"So, to be clear...your choice this cycle is a guy who has spent the entire campaign going 'I don't know why everyone's so angry, things are fine right now' and the guy who wants to solve every problem by doing nothing. And the lady who thinks Lieberman did 9/11. Well...f***. It's going to be a looong election."
-Jon Stewart on an episode of The Daily Show aired on June 17, 2008
So, Wellstone randomly didn't die ITTL?
Well, in any case, liking the idea of McCain going independent, and can't wait to see how this election goes down.
Well, in any case, liking the idea of McCain going independent, and can't wait to see how this election goes down.
Wellstone's OTL plane crash was butterflied away ITTL. He did, however, end up losing in the midterms due to being seen as insufficiently supportive of Lieberman in the aftermath of 9/11.
Oh it is going to be a fun one let me tell you.
Part 14
Apologies for the delay-I got very into one of my newer projects! Just a warning there is a good chance following this update I will take even longer to post follow-ups (especially since I'm considering making a separate series/thread for what comes next...)
Part 14
"My critics like to run around calling me 'isolationist' or 'irresponsible.' Well, I disagree with that assessment. Look what us sticking our nose into every place under the sun has gotten us-how many of our sons and daughters died in Iraq? In Iran? And how does the world feel about us after the atrocities perpetrated in Iran? To me, it's the hawks who are irresponsible and are the true isolationists."
-Senator Ron Paul at a rally in Florida, September 8, 2008
"I stand by what I said at the DNC. I obviously have my disagreements with Senator Paul-I do not believe we fix the economy by shattering the welfare state or abolishing the Federal Reserve. But I don't think Edwards' pro-corporate economic policies are the answer either and he will get us into more wars. And the less I say about McKinney the better. In this election, all I can tell my supporters to do is vote their conscience and keep up the fight for positive change."
-Former Senator Paul Wellstone, in an interview with NBC on September 10, 2008
NEARLY 300 FORMER NAT'L SECURITY PROFESSIONALS SIGN A LETTER SUPPORTING EDWARDS OVER PAUL
POLLS SHOW LIEBERMAN APPROVAL RATING AT 34% KEY FACTOR BEHIND EDWARDS DECLINING CAMPAIGN APPEARANCES, SOURCES SAY
POLLS SHOW CRIST BOLSTERING PAUL IN FLORIDA, STATE STILL FAVORS EDWARDS OVERALL
TRADITIONALLY LEFT-WING ANTIWAR GROUP CODE PINK ANNOUNCES SUPPORT FOR PAUL IN PRESS RELEASE
MCKINNEY PROMISES TO 'LOOK INTO VACCINES' IF ELECTED PRESIDENT
SENATOR NORM COLEMAN CROSSES PARTY LINES TO ENDORSE EDWARDS IN MINNEAPOLIS CAMPAIGN APPEARANCE
WHILE PROMOTING UNITED FRONT PUBLICLY, RNC OFFICIALS REMAIN WARY OF PAUL CAMPAIGN'S PROSPECTS IN NOVEMBER
-Headlines of The Washington Post, September-October 2008
"I appreciate Senator Paul's convictions, but there comes a time where you have to concede ground to reality. We tried doing nothing to solve economic crises many times before-and it didn't work. We want to solve this new crisis-we take a page from the book of FDR, not Herbert Hoover."
"Senator Paul, your rebuttal?"
"Well, I would dispute Edwards' characterization. Hoover spent quite a bit of time trying to fix the Depression with stimulus and that didn't work. And the New Deal didn't end the Great Depression either-if anything, it prolonged it. These historical narratives are popular, Senator Edwards, but they are not born out by reality."
-Exchange between John Edwards, Poppy Harlow and Ron Paul at the first presidential debate, October 7, 2008
"There is no good reason for the presidential debates to exclude anyone with enough ballot access to win. That's why I intend to boycott the next presidential debate unless the Commission on Presidential Debates extends invitations to Cynthia McKinney of the Green Party and Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party."
-Senator Ron Paul in a press conference also attended by McKinney and Baldwin, October 11, 2008
"This is nothing but a cynical ploy to try and poach votes from my campaign and I refuse to dignify my campaign by appearing alongside known cranks."
-Senator John Edwards in response to Paul's demands, October 12, 2008
"The beginning of problems for Edwards' campaign was his response to Paul demanding the Green and Constitution Parties be included in the presidential debates. While in the end the CPD did as Edwards demanded, Paul followed through on his ultimatum. Furthermore, the claims of Edwards were seen as illegitimate by many as a result of the fact Paul demanded Chuck Baldwin, who was ideologically much closer to Paul than Edwards, be included. Paul's efforts to stand up for third-party candidates helped strengthen his image as a man of the people targetting a corrupt establishment. And of course, it also helped that the aftermath of the second debate (a de facto Edwards townhall that was televised) was the emergence of a scandal."
-Chaos on the Campaign Trail: 2000-2020 by Nate Silver, published 2023
"I want to be clear: the claims of Miss Hunter that I fathered a child with her are nothing more than a false, malicious smear. I will admit to the fact I carried on an affair with Miss Hunter-an act I deeply and sincerely regret. However, at this time, I do not intend to drop out from the presidential race as I believe it is imperative that we elect someone other than Senator Paul who I fear will lead the US into a new Great Depression."
-Senator John Edwards in a press conference, October 21, 2008
"Goddamn it, John, you're going to cost us everything!"
-David Bonior in a phone call to John Edwards, October 21, 2008
POLLING SHOWS MASSIVE DROP IN SUPPORT FOR EDWARDS FOLLOWING REVELATION OF AFFAIRS
THIRD PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE TO INCLUDE MCKINNEY AND BALDWIN
THIRD-PARTY CANDIDATES, EDWARDS FLOUNDER IN THIRD DEBATE AS PAUL OUTPERFORMS EXPECTATIONS
RON PAUL RALLY IN SAN FRANCISCO DRAWS 9,000 ATTENDEES
GOING INTO ELECTION NIGHT, PAUL FAVORED TO WIN POPULAR VOTE, ELECTORAL COLLEGE REMAINS TOO CLOSE TO CALL
-Headlines of The Hill, October-November 2008
"Of course, the election was a major disappointment to me. Even though John was relatively cold to me personally (as understandable as it is regrettable), at the end of the day he was someone who appreciated the necessity of what we were doing. That I did not seek to wage wars for no reason, but I fought to protect American lives. That I was pushing for bailouts not because I was a corporate puppet, but because I knew we needed to stabilize the economy-and it's worth noting that for all the condemnation President Paul made towards me after the fact, he never did undo them once my signature was on them. To see someone like Senator Paul win the White House stung quite a bit-it was perhaps the biggest rebuke I could have been given short of electing a Nazi. Still, despite everything, I stand by what I did. My administration and the people in it did the right thing. I still believe that."
-Former President Joe Lieberman in his autobiography An Amazing Adventure, published in 2014
Part 14
"My critics like to run around calling me 'isolationist' or 'irresponsible.' Well, I disagree with that assessment. Look what us sticking our nose into every place under the sun has gotten us-how many of our sons and daughters died in Iraq? In Iran? And how does the world feel about us after the atrocities perpetrated in Iran? To me, it's the hawks who are irresponsible and are the true isolationists."
-Senator Ron Paul at a rally in Florida, September 8, 2008
"I stand by what I said at the DNC. I obviously have my disagreements with Senator Paul-I do not believe we fix the economy by shattering the welfare state or abolishing the Federal Reserve. But I don't think Edwards' pro-corporate economic policies are the answer either and he will get us into more wars. And the less I say about McKinney the better. In this election, all I can tell my supporters to do is vote their conscience and keep up the fight for positive change."
-Former Senator Paul Wellstone, in an interview with NBC on September 10, 2008
NEARLY 300 FORMER NAT'L SECURITY PROFESSIONALS SIGN A LETTER SUPPORTING EDWARDS OVER PAUL
POLLS SHOW LIEBERMAN APPROVAL RATING AT 34% KEY FACTOR BEHIND EDWARDS DECLINING CAMPAIGN APPEARANCES, SOURCES SAY
POLLS SHOW CRIST BOLSTERING PAUL IN FLORIDA, STATE STILL FAVORS EDWARDS OVERALL
TRADITIONALLY LEFT-WING ANTIWAR GROUP CODE PINK ANNOUNCES SUPPORT FOR PAUL IN PRESS RELEASE
MCKINNEY PROMISES TO 'LOOK INTO VACCINES' IF ELECTED PRESIDENT
SENATOR NORM COLEMAN CROSSES PARTY LINES TO ENDORSE EDWARDS IN MINNEAPOLIS CAMPAIGN APPEARANCE
WHILE PROMOTING UNITED FRONT PUBLICLY, RNC OFFICIALS REMAIN WARY OF PAUL CAMPAIGN'S PROSPECTS IN NOVEMBER
-Headlines of The Washington Post, September-October 2008
"I appreciate Senator Paul's convictions, but there comes a time where you have to concede ground to reality. We tried doing nothing to solve economic crises many times before-and it didn't work. We want to solve this new crisis-we take a page from the book of FDR, not Herbert Hoover."
"Senator Paul, your rebuttal?"
"Well, I would dispute Edwards' characterization. Hoover spent quite a bit of time trying to fix the Depression with stimulus and that didn't work. And the New Deal didn't end the Great Depression either-if anything, it prolonged it. These historical narratives are popular, Senator Edwards, but they are not born out by reality."
-Exchange between John Edwards, Poppy Harlow and Ron Paul at the first presidential debate, October 7, 2008
"There is no good reason for the presidential debates to exclude anyone with enough ballot access to win. That's why I intend to boycott the next presidential debate unless the Commission on Presidential Debates extends invitations to Cynthia McKinney of the Green Party and Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party."
-Senator Ron Paul in a press conference also attended by McKinney and Baldwin, October 11, 2008
"This is nothing but a cynical ploy to try and poach votes from my campaign and I refuse to dignify my campaign by appearing alongside known cranks."
-Senator John Edwards in response to Paul's demands, October 12, 2008
"The beginning of problems for Edwards' campaign was his response to Paul demanding the Green and Constitution Parties be included in the presidential debates. While in the end the CPD did as Edwards demanded, Paul followed through on his ultimatum. Furthermore, the claims of Edwards were seen as illegitimate by many as a result of the fact Paul demanded Chuck Baldwin, who was ideologically much closer to Paul than Edwards, be included. Paul's efforts to stand up for third-party candidates helped strengthen his image as a man of the people targetting a corrupt establishment. And of course, it also helped that the aftermath of the second debate (a de facto Edwards townhall that was televised) was the emergence of a scandal."
-Chaos on the Campaign Trail: 2000-2020 by Nate Silver, published 2023
"I want to be clear: the claims of Miss Hunter that I fathered a child with her are nothing more than a false, malicious smear. I will admit to the fact I carried on an affair with Miss Hunter-an act I deeply and sincerely regret. However, at this time, I do not intend to drop out from the presidential race as I believe it is imperative that we elect someone other than Senator Paul who I fear will lead the US into a new Great Depression."
-Senator John Edwards in a press conference, October 21, 2008
"Goddamn it, John, you're going to cost us everything!"
-David Bonior in a phone call to John Edwards, October 21, 2008
POLLING SHOWS MASSIVE DROP IN SUPPORT FOR EDWARDS FOLLOWING REVELATION OF AFFAIRS
THIRD PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE TO INCLUDE MCKINNEY AND BALDWIN
THIRD-PARTY CANDIDATES, EDWARDS FLOUNDER IN THIRD DEBATE AS PAUL OUTPERFORMS EXPECTATIONS
RON PAUL RALLY IN SAN FRANCISCO DRAWS 9,000 ATTENDEES
GOING INTO ELECTION NIGHT, PAUL FAVORED TO WIN POPULAR VOTE, ELECTORAL COLLEGE REMAINS TOO CLOSE TO CALL
-Headlines of The Hill, October-November 2008
"Of course, the election was a major disappointment to me. Even though John was relatively cold to me personally (as understandable as it is regrettable), at the end of the day he was someone who appreciated the necessity of what we were doing. That I did not seek to wage wars for no reason, but I fought to protect American lives. That I was pushing for bailouts not because I was a corporate puppet, but because I knew we needed to stabilize the economy-and it's worth noting that for all the condemnation President Paul made towards me after the fact, he never did undo them once my signature was on them. To see someone like Senator Paul win the White House stung quite a bit-it was perhaps the biggest rebuke I could have been given short of electing a Nazi. Still, despite everything, I stand by what I did. My administration and the people in it did the right thing. I still believe that."
-Former President Joe Lieberman in his autobiography An Amazing Adventure, published in 2014
Yeah, I saw it coming that Paul was going to win. Though with how the parties are shifting ideologically ITTL, I'll have to wait and see how this plays out.
Heh, I'll admit Paul winning wasn't the most surprising conclusion. But I will argue it is probably the most fitting one given this timeline's core premise involves an escalated War on Terror presided over by a Democratic President-I have a hard time envisioning a more appropriate response than for the GOP to go Paulite.
I do intend to explore the ramifications of Paul actually being president eventually, though I will need to take time to consider various components-I may also make a new thread & retitle the series 'Empire of Lies' or something.
Looking forward to whatever you do with it. Especially to see if Paul's support of the third parties has any long term effects.