The Queen is Dead!: Katherine of Aragon dies in 1518

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FalconHonour

FalconHonour

curlyhairedhippie said:
Wonderful as always! Have I mentioned how much I love your use of older Plantagenet names? Especially Jacquetta! Though it would’ve been nice to see a Matilda or Philippa Tudor, considering that they would be actually descended from the most famous women of those names. Also, nice to see the Brandon and Fitzroy lines surviving ITTL.
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I know, but I have a head canon that Philippa of Hainault was Anne's favourite Queen of England, hence her pinching that name. Matilda's name wrote itself after I realised how much her parents were going to struggle for a family, and Marie and Henry's daughter was slated to be a Katharine from the very beginning.
 
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FalconHonour

FalconHonour

I suppose I could have had the cousins share names, but I didn't really want to. Maybe Matilda and Philippa go back into the name pool for the senior line in a few generations :)
 
HortenseMancini

HortenseMancini

FalconHonour said:
I know, but I have a head canon that Philippa of Hainault was Anne's favourite Queen of England, hence her pinching that name. Matilda's name wrote itself after I realised how much her parents were going to struggle for a family, and Mary and Henry's daughter was slated to be a Katharine from the very beginning.
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Well, it’s not like Mary and Henry’s firstborn girl could be anything else. And I like that you have backstories for the names! It gives so much depth. And I guess I’ll just have to finagle a Philippa Tudor into a TL of my own one day.
 
HortenseMancini

HortenseMancini

FalconHonour said:
I suppose I could have had the cousins share names, but I didn't really want to. Maybe Matilda and Philippa go back into the name pool for the senior line in a few generations :)
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No no, cousins not sharing names is always better if you can help it...I’m kind of driving myself crazy with all the Marys I have floating around in my Margaret of Austria TL.
 
FalconHonour

FalconHonour

curlyhairedhippie said:
Well, it’s not like Mary and Henry’s firstborn girl could be anything else. And I like that you have backstories for the names! It gives so much depth. And I guess I’ll just have to finagle a Philippa Tudor into a TL of my own one day.
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Any other random bits of trivia you wish to know? If I know the answer, or have a story behind my reasoning, I'll tell you :)
 

isabella

FalconHonour said:
Here's the Boleyn Family Tree as far as I know it - Katharine definitely has children with James V, but I never named any of them or decided on dates of birth for them. And yes, Pippa's husband does survive, so she does become Duchess of Suffolk in 1545.

I'll do the Tudor one in a day or two - this is more complicated than it looks!
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This is great... Scottish tree would be also interesting (but I can understand why it is missing)
I think my suggestion was maybe Pippa for Lincoln as I proposed Kitty for Fitzroy, then placed a daughter of Anne (or George) above her in my list of brides for Fitzroy
 
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Tudor Family Tree
  • Index
    • FalconHonour

    FalconHonour

    Henry VIII (1491-1551) m 1509 Katherine of Aragon (1485-1518) (a) m 1520 Mary 'Marie' Boleyn (1500-1553) (b) exm. Elizabeth 'Bessie' Blount (c) and Honour Fitzgerald (d)

    1a) Princess Mary, Marchioness of Clarence (1516-1558) m 1533 Henri, Dauphin of France (marriage annulled 1550)
    • Jeanne, Fille de France (b. 1537)
    • Diane, Fille de France (b.1542)
    • Louise, Fille de France (b.1546)
    2c) Henry Fitzroy, Duke of Richmond and Somerset (b.1520) m 1536 Lady Margaret 'Maggie' Percy (b.1523)
    • Henry Fitzroy (b.1537)
    • Arthur Fitzroy (b.1538)
    • Charles Fitzroy (1540-1542)
    • Christina Fitzroy (b.1540)
    • Miscarriage (1542)
    • Blanche Fitzroy (b.1543)
    • Charles Fitzroy (b.1546)
    • Alice Fitzroy (b.1548)
    • Miscarriage (1549)
    • Eleanor Fitzroy (1551)
    • Gilbert Fitzroy (b.1551)

    3b) Lionel, Prince of Wales (1521-1575) m 1535 Christina of Denmark (b.1521)
    • John, Duke of Monmouth (1536 -1562) m 1555 Magdalena of Austria (b.1532)
    - Lady Christina Tudor of Monmouth (b.1557)​
    - Lord George Tudor of Monmouth (1559-1586) m 1578 Joan of York and Normandy (b.1563)​
    Anne Tudor (b.1579)​
    Lionel, Prince of Wales (b.1581)​
    Henry, Duke of York and Normandy (b.1582)​
    Christina Tudor (1583-1584)​
    Miscarriage (1584)​
    Joan Tudor (b.1586)​
    - Lady Elizabeth Tudor of Monmouth (b.1563)​
    • Lord William Tudor (b.1538)
    • Lady Mary Tudor (b.1541) m 1554 João Manuel of Portugal (b.1537)
    • Stillborn girl (b.1543)
    • Lord Henry Tudor (b.1545)
    4b) William, Duke of York and Normandy (1522)

    5d) Lady Grace Fitzroy, Baroness of Upper Ossory (b.1523) m 1539 Edmund Boleyn, Viscount Rochford and Branksome (b.1522)
    • 12 children, nine surviving
    6b) Richard, Duke of York and Normandy (1524-1562) m 1538 Beatrice of Portugal (b.1521)
    • Miscarriage (1542)
    • Cateline FitzYork (b.1543)(by Anne Cecil)
    • Edward, Duke of York and Normandy (b. 1544) m 1560 Anna of Saxony (b.1544)
      - Joan of York and Normandy (b.1563)
    • Henry FitzYork, Captain of Calais(b.1546) (by 'Minette')
    • Madeleine FitzYork (b.1549)(by 'Minette') m.1567 George 4th Earl Hastings(b.1552)
    • Francis FitzYork(b.1551) (by 'Minette')

    7b) Katharine, Queen of Scotland (1524-1554) m 1538 James V of Scotland (b.1512)
    • James, Duke of Rothesay (1539-1544)
    • Marjorie (b.1540)
    • Mary (b.1542)
    • Alexander, Duke of Rothesay (b.1543)
    • Arabella (1545-1547)
    • Miscarriage (1547)
    • James, Duke of Ross (b.1548)
    • Stillborn daughter (1551)
    • Alice (b.1553)
    • Isobel (b.1554)

    8b) Jacquetta (1524-1570)

    Notes: Joan isn't Edward's only child by Anna of Saxony, just his only surviving child. I imagined Joao Manuel of Portugal living until 1556/1557 ITTL, just long enough to have a child by Mary of Monmouth.
     
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    • FalconHonour

    FalconHonour

    isabella said:
    This is great... Scottish tree would be also interesting (but I can understand why it is missing)
    I think my suggestion was maybe Pippa for Lincoln as I proposed Kitty for Fitzroy, then placed a daughter of Anne (or George) above her in my list of brides for Fitzroy
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    Yes, that makes sense, which is why Kitty went to Algernon Percy and Pippa became Countess of Lincoln and Duchess of Suffolk.

    No Scottish tree, but a slightly more in depth Tudor Tree. @BlueFlowwer gets the credit for suggesting an Imperial match for John of Monmouth.
     
    HortenseMancini

    HortenseMancini

    Not to be too picky, but I think Eléonore (after Eleanor of Austria) would be a much better name than Diane for Henri and Mary's second daughter. I just can't see Mary naming her daughter after her husband's mistress.
     
    FalconHonour

    FalconHonour

    curlyhairedhippie said:
    Not to be too picky, but I think Eléonore (after Eleanor of Austria) would be a much better name than Diane for Henri and Mary's second daughter. I just can't see Mary naming her daughter after her husband's mistress.
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    Oh, I know. That was definitely Henri's choice. He chose it deliberately to punish Maria for not giving him a son - but his father tore him a new one for disrespecting Maria's maternal family *quite* so much, hence the more diplomatic choice of Louise for the third daughter.
     
    Ogrebear

    Ogrebear

    Banned
    FalconHonour said:
    Probably, but none I have names or dates for. If you can come up with them, I'll add them. Same goes for Katharine and James V.
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    Obvious one for a boy would of course be Henry, with perhaps Arthur, Edward, Alfred?
    For a daughter? Katherine, Mary, Joan, Agnes

    As for order? It is often said Fitzroy was similar to this dad, but lets give him a bit more luck...

    2c) Henry Fitzroy, Duke of Richmond and Somerset (b.1520) m 1536 Lady Margaret 'Maggie' Percy (b.1523)
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    Henry b.1536
    Arthur b. 1538
    Katherine and Edward b.1540
    Miscarriage 1542
    Joan b. 1544 (a surprise baby)
    Alfred b. 1546
    Agnes b. 1548
    Mary b. 1550
     
    FalconHonour

    FalconHonour

    Ogrebear said:
    Obvious one for a boy would of course be Henry, with perhaps Arthur, Edward, Alfred?
    For a daughter? Katherine, Mary, Joan, Agnes

    As for order? It is often said Fitzroy was similar to this dad, but lets give him a bit more luck...



    Henry b.1536
    Arthur b. 1538
    Katherine and Edward b.1540
    Miscarriage 1542
    Joan b. 1544 (a surprise baby)
    Alfred b. 1546
    Agnes b. 1548
    Mary b. 1550
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    Looks good. I might tweak the dates a tad, but that seems fair enough to me.
     
    FalconHonour

    FalconHonour

    Kerney said:
    Now all you have to do is trace the genealogy to the 21th century and the current Queen and everyone will be happy. Don't forget cadet branches and fifth cousins!
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    :p
    I do know the Brandons and the Boleyns make it through to the 21st Century, and the Boleyn line is unbroken male descent, but how the Brandons get there, don't ask me. There is also a branch of quasi-royal cousins called the 'Fillreins' floating around after one particular Queen had an affair before her marriage and claimed the kids, but didn't/couldn't legitimise them, so the throne went to her legitimate child instead (or possibly her younger sister/nephew, not sure which).

    I think the Greys take the Brandon fate of OTL, so dying out very early after some epidemic or other. But that really is as far as I've got in my thinking.
     
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