Socialist America brainstorming thread

Yesterday I posted a map about the rise of a socialist party in the United States. After getting some feedback from there and other places I concluded that while I'm satisfied with my PoD and events that happen in the USA, I'm not so happy with how I handled the rest of the world. I guess I was so focused on a socialist America in WWII that I chose to minimize the impact up until that point. Normally I would just keep any post thoughts in my head but I feel that there are so many variables in areas that I need to study more that I find it too much to do it on my own.

These are the main points I think need more worldbuilding.
  • How Roosevelt changes WWI (I've seen various threads about topic but I don't see a consensus)
  • What happens during and after Versailles?
  • What is the impact of the US being in the League of Nations?
  • How should I handle an alt Pacific War? (I want to delay the progress of operation Manhatten because I'm assuming the British wouldn't want to collaborate with socialists)
  • What will the post alt WWII look like in Europe, is there a Marshall plan equivalent, questions of colonies, etc.
Plot points that I prefer to keep.
  • I want to keep events that happen in the US roughly the same. (I'm willing to change some of the characters, but nothing too drastic.)
  • Roosevelt's Progressive party collapses after his death.
  • The Nazis take control of Germany.
  • Stalin is in charge of the USSR.
  • An event at least resembling WWII and I'd like to keep the original outline somewhat intact (Germany overruns Poland > France falls > the UK signs a white peace > Germany invades the USSR > the UK rejoins the war against Germany > the US joins the war after being attacked by Japan.
William Jennings Bryan threatened to run as an independent if free silver wasn’t put into the Democratic platform. Free silver was put into the 1900 Democratic platform by a one-vote margin. In this timeline that vote changes and the Democratic party rifts into two factions. Bryan dies during a winter accident in 1904 prolonging the rift while allowing the Bourbon faction to gain more influence. Meanwhile, the Republican party would run an "anti-corruption" campaign against the Democratic political machines that controlled many northern cities such as Tammany Hall. This was really an excuse to eliminate their chief rivals, but with the absence of the political machines, many of the urban poor who depended on their patronage were left without support as the Republicans, in their infinite wisdom, refused to replace those support networks with nothing. Which left a vacuum that would be filled by third parties such as the Socialists.

With the Democratic Party in tatters, Theodore Roosevelt wins the 1912 election as a Progressive candidate. His entry into the first world war fractures his party as many of them were isolationists who already accused him of not being a true Progressive but only using the party for his own agenda. With the death of Roosevelt and the defeat of Hiram Johnson against Fairbanks in 1920, the Progressive Party disbanded with many either going to the Democrats or Socialist parties.

Fairbanks worked to undo much of the social programs that Roosevelt had passed which quickly made him unpopular. Only made worse when members of his cabinet became involved with the Teapot Dome scandal. His unpopularity nearly cost him the 1924 election and was only saved when the Democratic candidate, Charles W. Bryan, agreed to give his delegates to Fairbanks in exchange for cabinet positions for his people and to deny victory to La Follette and his Progressive-Socialist Alliance party. Many Democrats were inflamed by Bryan's betrayal, most notably William Randolph Hearst who in his bitterness over the defeat and paranoia of communism, increasingly took radical strongman positions inspired by Benito Mussolini.

It was with this platform that Hearst took over the Democratic party and narrowly win the 1928 election through the electoral collage despite losing the popular vote. But rhetoric alone proved ineffective against the stock market crash in 1929 and the following Great Depression. With his policies failing to improve the economy he increasingly resorted to authoritarian tactics to maintain power. Despite this, Hearst still lost the 1932 election to the Progressive-Socialist candidate Eugene Debs, and the Democratic party was set to lose its majority. This drove Hearst beyond the pale and instead of conceding he attempted a self-coup of his government. His plan was to arrest the opposition and declare martial law. But he only succeeded in capturing Debs while Congress fled the capitol. He also found that many in the military had Socialist sympathies and refused to recognize his orders. With only his paramilitary loyalists and the Governors of South Carolina and Alabama recognizing his authority, Hearst dug in the capitol and a week-long siege that became known as the November Revolution. The crisis ended with Hearst's capture but not before the ex-president had brutally executed Debs.

To prevent this from happening again, a national convention was held in an emergency session of congress. They adopted a new constitution that reduced the executive branch to a figurehead, combined the Senate and House into one body, put term limits on the Supreme Court Justices, established the US Constabulary (popularly known as Rangers) as a gendarmerie force, moved the capitol to a new city to be constructed in Wyoming named Debs City, and abolished prohibition.

The European powers reacted with alarm to this development as it seemed the Americans fell to a communist regime. Neville Chamberlin refused to recognize the new government and enacted the Imperial Preference tariff in the British Empire and stopped paying WWI debts to the new US regime. Tensions were high as the British feared an invasion of Canada during the heightened tensions in Europe due to the concurrent rise of Hitler.

The new US government was a de-facto parliamentary republic and the first leader to emerge from the still evolving body was Huey Long who established the Speaker of the House as the head of government by employing the tactics he honed as the governor of Louisiana. He was a controversial figure in the socialist party, but his reforms were popular and despite his critics concerns of him becoming another Hearst or Stalin, they did not want to plunge the US into turmoil when many Americans desired stability and were still reeling from the tramatic events of November. During this time, the US was effectively a one-party state but only because the Democrats were shattered and the Republicans were so impotent that a non-Socialist government would only unseat them thirty years later. Long had isolationist tendencies in regard to Europe and felt contempt after the Twilight War which saw the fall of France and Britain signing an embarrassing white peace with Germany. But his views changed as conflict in China escalated and threatened the Philippines, he ceased selling oil to the Japanese to stop their aggression in China.

The Germans launched operation Barbarossa against the USSR in 1941, the British having spent a year rearming, declared war on Germany in support of the USSR. A year later, the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor and drew Socialist America into the Second World War. The war lasted in Europe until 1945 and saw the downfall of Hitler and the Nazi's, but the war in Japan would drag on after the failure of the American Operation Overlord. Speaker Long wouldn't live to see its end as he died from liver failure and was replaced by Norman Thomas. Speaker Thomas sought negotiations rather than repeat Overlord, and his pacifist ethics excluded the use of experimental weapons that wouldn't be ready until 1946 anyway. The Japanese agreed to a conditional surrender that stripped them of most of their territory except for Taiwan, south Sakhalin, and other islands.

Thomas worked against Long's style of Socialism and favored implementing more orthodox Marxist policies and ceasing the authoritarianism that featured heavily in Long's administration. He also sought to retreat from Europe after the war by reunifying Germany as a neutral state. But his idealism backfired as Stalin kept his forces in Eastern Europe and he became a new aggressor to the American public. Thomas reversed his initial position and sent financial aid to Britain and France albeit reluctantly.

View attachment 890081

Years later, Americans became tired of decades of Socialist leadership. The Liberal-Republican Coalition had finally won enough seats in Congress to form a government, electing the popular Joseph F. Kennedy Jr. to the Speakership with Bill Nixon as his chief deputy. His first challenge is the discovery of Soviet warheads in the Dominican Republic and Speaker Kennedy contemplates warning the Soviets with nuclear demonstrations in New Mexico of the missiles the Americans currently have stationed in Turkey.
Thoughts?
 
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You'd need to kill TR instead of McKinley and by extension the progressive movement to open the ecological niche for laborite/socdem politics.
I don't agree with this because progressives will just vote for the Democrats if conservative Republicans continue to favor business interests. And I don't see ecological issue as that big a factor that could push the pendulum. A collapse of the progressive wing of the Democratic party is the only way I can see a third party becoming a viable option.
 
You'd need to kill TR instead of McKinley and by extension the progressive movement to open the ecological niche for laborite/socdem politics.
I thought McKinley had good relations with both the business and labor interests of the country? It seems to me more likely that McKinley goes Bull Moose on reforms, though maybe without the force of nature that is Theodore Roosevelt.
 
You'd need to kill TR instead of McKinley and by extension the progressive movement to open the ecological niche for laborite/socdem politics.
I don't agree with this because progressives will just vote for the Democrats if conservative Republicans continue to favor business interests. And I don't see ecological issue as that big a factor that could push the pendulum. A collapse of the progressive wing of the Democratic party is the only way I can see a third party becoming a viable option.
I’ve been brainstorming a “World Communism” scenario with a “McKinley lives” POD for a while now - and this was one of the road blocks that I hit.

One of the ways I’ve justified this and preventing Progressives from coming to power is that Mark Hanna or some other pro-business Republican succeeds McKinley and entrenches the corporate GOP’s dominance of American politics through extreme gerrymandering and other dubious means of winning elections (both the Presidency and the legislature). This prevents Progressives from coming to power in either the Democratic or Republican Party.

Another thing I had was that with Roosevelt not President - Russia wins the Russo-Japanese War and Britain stays out of the war - causing Germany to win. But then I realized that winning in Japan might embolden Russia to act during the First Balkan War and start World War I earlier. This would create a totally different conflict from OTL.
 
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Additionally, in the old lore - the victory of the Central Powers sees not only Russia - but France and Italy - fall to communism.[1] Germany isn’t able to cripple any of them because they were busy stabilizing the newly-formed United States of Greater Austria and the Ottoman Empire. Trotsky comes to power in the Soviet Union and starts aggressively funding the American left.

Also, under McKinley’s successors America turns Cuba, Haiti, the Dominican Republic and all of Central America into territories and this leads to a Vietnam-style conflict by the 1920s.

[1] As in they become socialist states in transition to communism. The reason why you hear the phrase “that wasn’t real communism” thrown around is because socialist states according to Marxists are in the “dictatorship of the proletariat” (when Marx spoke of this term, “dictatorship” didn’t have a negative connotation yet) stage before the abolition of class differences sees the state as eventually useless.
 
Yesterday I posted a map about the rise of a socialist party in the United States. After getting some feedback from there and other places I concluded that while I'm satisfied with my PoD and events that happen in the USA, I'm not so happy with how I handled the rest of the world. I guess I was so focused on a socialist America in WWII that I chose to minimize the impact up until that point. Normally I would just keep any post thoughts in my head but I feel that there are so many variables in areas that I need to study more that I find it too much to do it on my own.

These are the main points I think need more worldbuilding.
  • How Roosevelt changes WWI (I've seen various threads about topic but I don't see a consensus)
Specifically on this point, the only major change I see happening is Roosevelt gets the USA involved after the sinking of the Lusitania instead of the unrestricted submarine warfare. As far as prosecuting the war goes, Roosevelt wouldn't have been too different from Wilson especially with regard to protests from people like Eugene V. Debs. From what I could see on their campaigns, Roosevelt agreed with about 85% of Wilson's platform, just differed immensely as far as foreign policy was concerned. I think one thing that Roosevelt might do is prop up the Diaz Regime in Mexico as Taft seemed to gravitate toward that, which if the crackdowns on Pancho Villa and Eugene Debs bear any fruit, you could see them becoming comrades in arms against the United States.

The main wrinkle here is you have to overcome the fact that Roosevelt was the spearhead of the labor movement from a reformist angle. Same with Wilson, even if his legacy is murky at best. So it's hard to really see Roosevelt doing anything that agitates the American laborer to the point that they move against the federal government. Though admittedly the idea of Samuel Gompers trying to manage a caretaker provisional government akin to Kerensky's Republic sounds kinda cool if I'm being honest.
 
Specifically on this point, the only major change I see happening is Roosevelt gets the USA involved after the sinking of the Lusitania instead of the unrestricted submarine warfare. As far as prosecuting the war goes, Roosevelt wouldn't have been too different from Wilson especially with regard to protests from people like Eugene V. Debs. From what I could see on their campaigns, Roosevelt agreed with about 85% of Wilson's platform, just differed immensely as far as foreign policy was concerned.
I still don't see Roosevelt entering the war before 1916 because a. it was unpopular, b. Unless the Bull Moose Progressives absolutely sweep in the House and Senate during the 1912 general or 1914 midterms then I don't see who will support pushing a declaration of war through Congress, c. I'm not convinced that he would prioritize unpopular foreign policy issues over his domestic agenda.

But the thing I've learned about alternate history is that you can never "prove" a negative. I won't dismiss the possibility and @lukedalton pointed out in the map thread that the outcome of TTL' WWI was too similar to OTL, particularly the topics of Wilson's fourteen points and the US in the League of Nations. Rather than change these I think I see a way to have my cake and eat it too. For TTL I'll have Roosevelt win in 1912, joins WWI in may 1915, loses the 1916 election to Wilson who goes on to Versailles to mostly do what he did in OTL.

Taking a page from an older TL by Jello_Biarfa, an earlier US entry doesn't do much except through more men into the meat grinder. He argued that OTL' American entry was only a moral blow to the Germans because of starvation and fresh troops. This stirs greater resentment from disillusioned soldiers and a worse bonus army incident than OTL. However, my version of WWI does end earlier in 1917.

Also of note
  • Bulgaria might not join in 1915, if at all, as the US entering would cause some shock to the Central Powers.
  • Asquith doesn't resign as PM and the UK Liberal party survives.
  • No Balfour Declaration as that was Lloyd George's idea of getting American Zionists to lobby the US into joining the Entente.
  • The Ottoman Empire "survives" as Asquith is stated to have favored reforming the empire as opposed to George's plan of partitioning it. Whether that's feasible or not I don't know, but I do know that the British hadn't captured Damascus or Mosul until 1918. Unfortunately, I'm not confident with my sources from Wikipedia or the History-Map.com site as neither of them cite where this claim comes from.
I think one thing that Roosevelt might do is prop up the Diaz Regime in Mexico as Taft seemed to gravitate toward that, which if the crackdowns on Pancho Villa and Eugene Debs bear any fruit, you could see them becoming comrades in arms against the United States.
Interesting, why didn't Taft do this in OTL?
The main wrinkle here is you have to overcome the fact that Roosevelt was the spearhead of the labor movement from a reformist angle. Same with Wilson, even if his legacy is murky at best. So it's hard to really see Roosevelt doing anything that agitates the American laborer to the point that they move against the federal government. Though admittedly the idea of Samuel Gompers trying to manage a caretaker provisional government akin to Kerensky's Republic sounds kinda cool if I'm being honest.
That's why I deem it necessary for Roosevelt's party to win in 1912 and collapse without him. This leaves the Bull Moose Progressives without a home, some could go back to the Republican party but I think that some might radicalize. Similar situation with Democratic Progessive's as my PoD fractures the Democrats and revitalizes the Bourbon Democrat faction.
 
That's why I deem it necessary for Roosevelt's party to win in 1912 and collapse without him. This leaves the Bull Moose Progressives without a home, some could go back to the Republican party but I think that some might radicalize. Similar situation with Democratic Progessive's as my PoD fractures the Democrats and revitalizes the Bourbon Democrat faction.
Wihtout McAdoo moves, the USA risk an economic recession/depression in 1914 due to the action of the european calling the debt to get gold, this mean for the Entente much less debt towards the USA that can translate in an somewhat more stable postwar situation and less influence for Wilson (but the latter can be covered up with an earlier capacity of the USA to enter the war due to Teddy unlike OTL Wilson, making effective move to keep the armed forces ready to intervene) and a more unstable situation on the Homefront that the postwar economic problem can make it worse expecially if mismanaged
 
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