Romanov Ascendant: What if the Soviet Union survived?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Overall I think that the most realistic outcome is further and increased integration economically on either side of the iron curtain. In the west, the Communist movement would he definitely strongly resurgent in France but even stronger in Italy. I suspect Franco-German capitalists may drift towards the unthinkable, in doing what capitalism tends to do in crisis.
For curiosity sake; why were West Germany and Italy not mentioned as either in support or against the Gulf War/Kuwait War?
Turning to fascism? This would give the Eastern Bloc the clear moral high ground.
I don't think outright fascism but surely more populist than in OTL. I however am not very sure about it since in OTL the West is supporting extreme far-right (to be honest Nazis; they even wear swastikas) paramilitary groups in both Ukraine and Belarus,
Honestly yes I agree but Honestly, it's just practically the best point. But I do agree the current version of the USSR could weather the storm unscathed. If anything it's more likely internal influence is the only thing that can push this USSR to any reform. Though I would argue China survived the gfc for entirely different reasons why this USSR would.
I agree with you; TTL USSR will more than likely weather the early 2000s (*)recession almost unscathed not because it is a manufacturing hub like OTL PRC was but because it would be somewhat isolated from the World Markets.
*It is highly likely that TTL Great Recession will take place earlier than in OTL for the simple fact that the West would NOT have new markets to expand into in the early 1990s. Maybe 2004/2005 instead of 2007/2008.
Small side note: I also think that TTL PRC will grow slightly slower than in OTL for the fact that a Sino-Soviet rapprochement will likely scare the West of possible technology threats
 
Last edited:
I'll definitely address them, Venezuela is at a tipping point and Cuban isn't active in Angola now. But they also have a new idea to gain hard western currency and pressure Colombia.
Neat, I'll be waiting patiently. Though I wonder how Romanov will deal with the Shining Path in Peru, or the Zapatistas in Mexico.
 
Neat, I'll be waiting patiently. Though I wonder how Romanov will deal with the Shining Path in Peru, or the Zapatistas in Mexico.
Beside nominal support i doubt he would do much as he is more focused on closer nation to him and he is unlikely to poke USA to much
 

Justinian

Banned
Turning to fascism? This would give the Eastern Bloc the clear moral high ground.
That of course depends on your outlook, although I wouldn't call what they would be tuned to neonazism.

I was wondering what words?The most earliest speech i was able to find by Milosevic is in 1988
Now i personally dont think at this time he wanted collapse of Yugoslavia or greater Serbia as one can see in speech it self so i dont think he should get blow back for saying how Yugoslavian socialism and Serbian nationalism were one and the same.I could be wrong on this and could be me not knowing some part i hope you shall respond,also i want to add there is something i think this Soviet would love to get their hands on
That was a typo but I was referring to that speech where he alluded to Serbian nationalism. He was still obviously paying respects to the Titoist ideal but that pragmatist nationalist element is obvious to me in both his speech and his behavior in the Kosovo scenario. But that's my interpretation. Regardless what I meant is that he had originally started to shift to nationalism as per the OTL, but when it becomes clear his path to political success is non sectarian socialism, he immediately withdraws and switches to extreme pro Romanov, slightly pro Tito rhetoric.

Yugoslavia definitely has a lot to offer, it has a really well educated workforce, western technology, it's a great vacation destination, beautiful women (personal experience), and overall getting it into the WP is a massive historical victory. The high level of computer tech is just the icing in on the cake.


Considering China managed to navigate the rough waters of the GFC well, and that they are much more integrated than this USSR model, even after computers being introduced, I believe it would be realistic that the Soviets can deal with this crisis more or less unscathed.
By the time of the GFC, I would say it would be safe to say that the 2nd world or COMECON economy would be mostly unaffected, other than by slightly reduced demand for its goods by the fluctuations of the capitalist market. In fact I'd argue the GFC presents the Soviets a massive propaganda opportunity.
Though I would argue China survived the gfc for entirely different reasons why this USSR would.
Why would you say that?
 
Why would you say that?
So, unless China goes down a radically different path it will be for similar reasons to why otl China wasn't overly bothered in long term by gfc but in the short term took a substantial hit dropping to 6% in the early quarter and 9. 7 growth in 2008 as a whole but ended 2007 with 14% growth that year so all in perspective the crash for China was more a road bump. This relates not to the economic system though that did help prop up certain sections but rather the ever growing global role of Chinese manufacturing and its role in the global economic system. In short because of the fallout of the gfc vast swathes of the global market basically got primed for Chinese takeover as the western manufacturing sector was much more reliant on the financial institutions then the growing Chinese industry which could easily out compete the western industry especially now its financial legs had taken a hit. Compare this to China where it's financial institutions took pretty serious damage however, the manufacturing element of the economy was able to shoulder it all the while exploiting the new market openings. Compare this to this tl ussr which from an economic standpoint is neither anywhere as integrated into the global market nor is its financial institutions even compatible for the gfc aftershock to significantly effect it.

Tldr: where this USSR is separated enough and built up enough to ingore the financial meltdown China otl just brute forced it with pure manufacturing growth and exploitation of the collapsing western markets
 
I think China would be quite different OTL. After the Tiananmen Square massacre the West imposed an arms embargo. With the Cold War still on I don't see any reason that the West, particularly the US would export it's industry to China. The end of the Cold war and the optimistic atmosphere allowed the US to send it's industry to China and import back so without it the growth of China while still fast would not be as spectacular as OTL. The US rustbelt would not be so hard hit but decline gradually and America retains more industrial jobs and local products. If NAFTA happens then probably a major share of the investment goes to Mexico. If India gets a stable government then it draws out some more steam out of China's growth, India due to its political instability in the 90s failed to get industrial investment on a large scale and by the time stable governments returned in the 2000s China was already too entrenched as an investment destination.

Sino Soviet relations improving also slows down its growth due to even fewer investments. These won't be that apparent soon but by 2020 China could be ten years behind what it is today economically.

Militarily the Gulf war was a turning point after which China began to earnestly work on quality of both it's equipment and personnel. They believed that sheer quantity would carry the day. But how the Iraqi army was simply wiped out destroyed that assumption. They believed that the Iraqi Military was superior to theirs and if it failed so miserably their army too would fail. ITTL the Iraqi Military fought such a vast coalition to a draw so it would reinforce their doctrine.

If the global financial crises occurs along with the Asian financial crisis of OTL then it would be truly spectacular to see with the west reeling from economic woes while the Eastern bloc has recovered and is going strong.
 
I think China would be quite different OTL. After the Tiananmen Square massacre the West imposed an arms embargo. With the Cold War still on I don't see any reason that the West, particularly the US would export it's industry to China. The end of the Cold war and the optimistic atmosphere allowed the US to send it's industry to China and import back so without it the growth of China while still fast would not be as spectacular as OTL. The US rustbelt would not be so hard hit but decline gradually and America retains more industrial jobs and local products. If NAFTA happens then probably a major share of the investment goes to Mexico. If India gets a stable government then it draws out some more steam out of China's growth, India due to its political instability in the 90s failed to get industrial investment on a large scale and by the time stable governments returned in the 2000s China was already too entrenched as an investment destination.

Sino Soviet relations improving also slows down its growth due to even fewer investments. These won't be that apparent soon but by 2020 China could be ten years behind what it is today economically.

Militarily the Gulf war was a turning point after which China began to earnestly work on quality of both it's equipment and personnel. They believed that sheer quantity would carry the day. But how the Iraqi army was simply wiped out destroyed that assumption. They believed that the Iraqi Military was superior to theirs and if it failed so miserably their army too would fail. ITTL the Iraqi Military fought such a vast coalition to a draw so it would reinforce their doctrine.

If the global financial crises occurs along with the Asian financial crisis of OTL then it would be truly spectacular to see with the west reeling from economic woes while the Eastern bloc has recovered and is going strong.
Yes but China it self might change,one cant forget the reason the changes where supported due how fast the they where working,but now whit cold war still going on and western nation not wanting to invest in China its politic will start to switch,now the biggest question to what it will switch will it adopt new Soviet politic or will they try something new.It will be interesting to see author take on it!
Edit:Also one of things that pushed those current politic is collapse of Soviet union.I got that from this video
so do take it whit grain of salt as they say,as iam not sure how true that is
 
Last edited:
ITTL the Iraqi Military fought such a vast coalition to a draw so it would reinforce their doctrine.
I don't think that makes much sense, the iraqis managed to do that with soviet help in eletronic warfare and in the small modernezation of some of its forces with MiG-29s, Mi-28s, modern SAM systems, etc. The soviets themselfs are going trough a downseizing IIRC and focusing in modern equipment that it's slowing making its way to the rear units that border the PRC. The Sino-Soviet reapproachment would make China use less western tech and comeback to develop more soviet based tech and license built things.
 
What would africa look like with a surviving USSR? How long would Ethiopia be a communist state or other states that were communist in Africa? I also suggest for an alternate wikipedia infobox of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War_(1985–1991) or it could be (1985–XXXX) Its your choice.
 
What would africa look like with a surviving USSR? How long would Ethiopia be a communist state or other states that were communist in Africa?
I would assume Romanov would try to course correct a few of them. Because, if I remember correctly, they had disastrous domestic policies.
 
Did Sankara die or the butterflies can save him? Also with soviet equipment proving itself in combat against western equipment I can see a bigger demand for it from neutral nations. And did Romanov managed to bring back Albania? Hoxha broke with the PRC after Deng's reforms and since Romanov is going the Stalin route Hoxha might decide to rejoin the Warsaw Pact.
 
Last edited:

Justinian

Banned
Sorry about delays everyone due to some recent events I've been delayed greatly by personal and professional requirements. However I think I'll be back to updating the timeline very soon.

I also want to say I appreciate the nomination for best timeline and everyone who voted that was very nice to see!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top