If some Central or Eastern European country somehow became Muslim, what animals would be best to replace pigs (if any)?
Replacement for pigs in Europe?
- Thread starter Otto Kretschmer
- Start date
In terms of the amount of offspring, and thus available meat, it can produce over its lifetime?
Rabbits, probably.
Rabbits, probably.
A Central or Eastern European Muslim society's cuisine would probably look a lot like premodern Ashkenazi Jewish cuisine. Instead of pigs, Ashkenazi Jews ate (and still eat) poultry (chickens and geese), mutton (lamb/sheep, and goat), beef, and fish. A Muslim society would eat all of those things, as well as horse and camel and rabbit and shellfish - animals which are Halal but not Kosher.
Turkeys are a New World animal that did not exist in Eurasia before the Columbian Exchange.
Would Bactrian camels be a good addition? They are very resistant to both frigid cold and extreme heat and can survive a long time without water (not an issue in Europe)
I would presume their role would be placed with waterfowl, and given enough time chickens. Chickens were not really kept as devoted meat animals prior to the 1900s (meat production occurring as something more on the side, a way to make use of surplus roosters/cockerels and hens past laying age), and before the Columbian Exchange you have no turkeys. At the same time, no other domestic hoofstock than pigs are able to make use of the type of foodstuffs that pigs can process - galliform and anseriform birds are your closest domestic analogues. Chickens and ducks are better suited as a direct analogue than geese, which are essentially obligate grazers (and not terribly efficient on their own).
Most likely ducks are kept for meat in direct lieu of pigs, and in time it is possible that meat-specific landraces of chickens - which are less reliant upon water, and far less messy - are developed centuries before OTL.
Most likely ducks are kept for meat in direct lieu of pigs, and in time it is possible that meat-specific landraces of chickens - which are less reliant upon water, and far less messy - are developed centuries before OTL.
Certainly not the horse, it is too precious an animal to be eaten, it cannot be part of the diet of a European population of the Middle Ages.
Carp. Aside from meat, the role of pigs is one of waste disposal; they're fattened off of kitchen scraps, forage, and human waste - so are carp. They'll take kitchen scraps just fine, they'll forage in the pond, and just as there are pig toilets there are pond toilets. They also happen to have a long history of cultivation in Central and Eastern Europe.
Utter nonsense. Horse meat was eaten throughout Europe, and particularly in Central and Eastern Europe. What taboo existed was Christian and won't apply here at all (not that it ever did much in Easter Europe anyways).
Pigs serve two purposes as a domesticated animal; garbage disposal which can somewhat be taken over by chickens (not one to one, pigs are far more efficient at it[1]) and as a way to get calories out of woodland. In the latter case no animal can replace pigs removing the pig from the diet simply means that far fewer calories can be extracted from woodland.
[1] even in Middle East pigs were and are used for this purpose, which have made garbage removal a Christian niche in the region.
[1] even in Middle East pigs were and are used for this purpose, which have made garbage removal a Christian niche in the region.
Tbh pigs were kept in Sennar Sudan and boar were hunted in Northern African mountains up until like the post WWII era they’d always have a place and secretly eaten.
however pigs more than most other animals were kept for their fat and save for geese the only animal I can think of that had large amounts of fat were fat tailed sheep whose tails could grow to enormous sizes and who’s thick wool could keep them around central and Eastern Europe with ease.
however pigs more than most other animals were kept for their fat and save for geese the only animal I can think of that had large amounts of fat were fat tailed sheep whose tails could grow to enormous sizes and who’s thick wool could keep them around central and Eastern Europe with ease.
There is one animal that can replace pigs in the woodland, but it's not domestic: deer. A Muslim European country may see pigs relegated to a purely urban animal, managed by the Christian minority, and domestic pigs kept out of the woods to leave more mast for wild deer.
Before the turkey there was the guinea fowl, which is a Sub-Saharan Africa domesticate sold in the markets of North Africa. Everything from Islamic lands were assumed to be from Turkey at the time. The American turkey was mistakenly identified as the more common African bird and that’s how turkey got it’s name.
Not really deer extract different calories from woodland than pig, it’s in fact why deer have survived because we don’t have a domesticate which feed in similar manner to deer. In MENA countries with heavy woodland you also see wild boar survive while in Europe the wild boar had gone extinct many places and have only begun to expand its range again after pigs was removed from the forests.
As far as I've understood, their hooves are quite sensitive to fungal infections in humid climates. So it'll be rain rather than cold that will cause problems.
Potatoes are a new world food, so it would be a bit dependent on the time frame.