Remember the Rainbow: An Alternate Royal Canadian Navy TL

I doubt any treaty era cruiser would want to fight even a slightly modernized I class, 6x 12" (post war) shells will hurt a lot with any good director and 6"belt/1.5" deck isn't bad by CA standards.....

The coal would be replaced with an oil TDS along with the new boilers......

That is true however, it comes down to the point of why keep such ships around? In the list of all RN capital ships waiting for upgrades, the Invincibles would essentially be at the very bottom, below even the Revenge class. Even if they are allowed to be retained by Canada, you are left with a very strange ship. It's too slow even with a full machinery transplant to effectively chase even remotely modern cruisers, the armor scheme is excessively poor (lack of upper decks, large unarmored freeboard, thin deck armor and a short 6" belt) to a point where modern 8" guns nullify your armor within effective combat range and while 12" guns are fine against cruisers, you only have six extremely vintage guns of questionable quality even with post war shells (which are an improvement over the previous shells but are still not great). The extremely poor underwater protection is also a major threat.

Sure it's fine for coastal defense however, the ship is extremely dated and would be very expensive to operate for their actual effectiveness.

Wouldn't capital ships be wasteful from a crewing standpoint?

To be fair, Invincible in her WWI configuration is somewhat similar to a County class cruiser in her crew compliment.
 
That is true however, it comes down to the point of why keep such ships around? In the list of all RN capital ships waiting for upgrades, the Invincibles would essentially be at the very bottom, below even the Revenge class. Even if they are allowed to be retained by Canada, you are left with a very strange ship. It's too slow even with a full machinery transplant to effectively chase even remotely modern cruisers, the armor scheme is excessively poor (lack of upper decks, large unarmored freeboard, thin deck armor and a short 6" belt) to a point where modern 8" guns nullify your armor within effective combat range and while 12" guns are fine against cruisers, you only have six extremely vintage guns of questionable quality even with post war shells (which are an improvement over the previous shells but are still not great). The extremely poor underwater protection is also a major threat.

Sure it's fine for coastal defense however, the ship is extremely dated and would be very expensive to operate for their actual effectiveness.

Although is would be cool in a steampunk timeline to keep Invincibles around into the '30s and '40s, they really lose any purpose when they can be described as "too slow."

I think the Admiralty might think it hilarious if someone like Argentina or Chile bought I class BCs in the inter-war years. But they have an interest in keeping the militaries of the Dominions of the Empire useful to the Royal Navy.

Wow that sounds so good I almost convinced myself. But I don't know how that explains the Rainbow and the Niobe.
 
Although is would be cool in a steampunk timeline to keep Invincibles around into the '30s and '40s, they really lose any purpose when they can be described as "too slow."

I think the Admiralty might think it hilarious if someone like Argentina or Chile bought I class BCs in the inter-war years. But they have an interest in keeping the militaries of the Dominions of the Empire useful to the Royal Navy.

Wow that sounds so good I almost convinced myself. But I don't know how that explains the Rainbow and the Niobe.

It is somewhat interesting to think about it however, it's just a terrible idea from every aspect I look at. The Admiralty likely would have never sold what amounted to their own naval branches some second hand worn out death traps. What do you mean about Rainbow and Niobe?
 
It is somewhat interesting to think about it however, it's just a terrible idea from every aspect I look at. The Admiralty likely would have never sold what amounted to their own naval branches some second hand worn out death traps. What do you mean about Rainbow and Niobe?
Rainbow and Niobe were second hand worn out death traps...sold to the Canadians....
 

Lusitania

Donor
the close proximity to GB and USA has played a significant part in Canada’s relative small size of its military. Even a more progressive Canadian government can only build its navy to a certain point as there was no need for Canada to have a large navy due to our relative smaller coast and for fact the navy need to be split to protect both Atlantic and pacific.

Now if Canada was located where Australia is there would of been a natural requirement to have a larger military including navy.

While a progressive or different attitude government can make sure that Canada has a better navy and armed forces its relative position and relationship with both GB and US hinders its growth.

Also consider that some British Canadians felt it anti British empire for Canada to have its own navy and felt Canada should be supporting the BN.

So wonder to provide the impetuous about both navy and military beyond iotl levels if we need different British attitude one that will request Canadian involvement and participation in the administration of the empire. This of course might also translate to South Africa and Australia/New Zealand taking a more active role in the own sphere of influence.

Helping Canada would be a US that is perceived as more hostile or antagonist towards Canada British empire. Thus providing an natural reason for Canada to go it alone or together with GB and not be reliant on US for protection.
 
the close proximity to GB and USA has played a significant part in Canada’s relative small size of its military. Even a more progressive Canadian government can only build its navy to a certain point as there was no need for Canada to have a large navy due to our relative smaller coast and for fact the navy need to be split to protect both Atlantic and pacific.

Now if Canada was located where Australia is there would of been a natural requirement to have a larger military including navy.

While a progressive or different attitude government can make sure that Canada has a better navy and armed forces its relative position and relationship with both GB and US hinders its growth.

Also consider that some British Canadians felt it anti British empire for Canada to have its own navy and felt Canada should be supporting the BN.

So wonder to provide the impetuous about both navy and military beyond iotl levels if we need different British attitude one that will request Canadian involvement and participation in the administration of the empire. This of course might also translate to South Africa and Australia/New Zealand taking a more active role in the own sphere of influence.

Helping Canada would be a US that is perceived as more hostile or antagonist towards Canada British empire. Thus providing an natural reason for Canada to go it alone or together with GB and not be reliant on US for protection.

Exactly right. One of the main foes of the Canadian Navy historically has been the people themselves. There wasn't the same amount of patriotism or faith placed in them as something such as the Army/Militia. It really didn't help that for years, the Navy was a barely functional claptrap of second hand ships hanging by a shoe string of a budget. A few sprinkles of naval disaster alongside the accompanying political fallout may prove enough to wake the people out of their blissful ignorance and realize that papa Britain won't always be there for them.

But I don't want to get ahead of myself ;)
 
HMCS Bluenose Article, July 1st 2019
July 1st, 2019

HMCS Bluenose Celebrates Canada's 152nd Birthday!

From fisheriesmuseum.novascotia.ca

Join the staff of the Fisheries Museum of the Atlantic and the people of Lunenburg for our yearly July 1st celebrations. Retired Royal Canadian Navy personnel from the Royal Canadian Legion Branch #23 and Wayne Walters, grandson of Bluenose's famous Captain Angus Walters, will be hosting tours and a ceremonial firing of the 4 inch gun of Bluenose, "the Queen of the North Atlantic". Bluenose is one of the most well known and admired ships ever to be built on Canadian shores, her sterling service through her years as both a racing vessel, a hardworking fishing schooner and eventually as a vessel of war against Germany during the Second World War has earned her the admiration of many nationwide. Admission to the museum is free for the day, make sure to stay for the evening to watch the fully rigged schooner strut her stuff with a ceremonial sail in Lunenberg harbor followed by fireworks to end the day.

I4B8WjE.jpg

Bluenose happily cutting her way through the surf.
 
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I apologize for the lack of updates in the last few days, here's a little tidbit to hopefully tide you all over. Happy Canada Day to my fellow Canadians, the next update will be coming either today or tomorrow depending on my free time. Have a good one!
 
The things you learn reading Alt.Hist.

Didn't know that July 1st was Canada Day. - What's the tie in to the date ?

FYI: On January 26th 1788, Captain Arthur Phillip formally took possession of New Holland / New South Wales, in the name of the King, then unloaded the passengers off his transports, mainly convicts.

On July 1st, 1851 the Port Phillip District of New South Wales became the Colony of Victoria.
 
The things you learn reading Alt.Hist.

Didn't know that July 1st was Canada Day. - What's the tie in to the date ?

FYI: On January 26th 1788, Captain Arthur Phillip formally took possession of New Holland / New South Wales, in the name of the King, then unloaded the passengers off his transports, mainly convicts.

On July 1st, 1851 the Port Phillip District of New South Wales became the Colony of Victoria.
1867, Upper Canada (Ontario), Lower Canada (Quebec),Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick signed articles of Confederation that came into effect July 1. So the Dominion of Canada was created from 4 formerly separate colonies. Motive: the Union had just won the American Civil War and had this huge mobilized army looking for something to do. It was hoped that one big Dominion would look like too big a mouthful.
 
1867, Upper Canada (Ontario), Lower Canada (Quebec),Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick signed articles of Confederation that came into effect July 1. So the Dominion of Canada was created from 4 formerly separate colonies. Motive: the Union had just won the American Civil War and had this huge mobilized army looking for something to do. It was hoped that one big Dominion would look like too big a mouthful.

Thank you

Our union was Federation, on January 1, 1901, when six disparate colonies became the Commonwealth of Australia.

Not greatly celebrated though, as first settlement on January 26th is Australia Day.
 
Thank you

Our union was Federation, on January 1, 1901, when six disparate colonies became the Commonwealth of Australia.

Not greatly celebrated though, as first settlement on January 26th is Australia Day.

Interesting, I'd personally wager that the founding of the Commonwealth would be a more important date. I guess every nation has it's quirks.
 
Some of those photos are new to me. You have one captioned as the crew of the Niobe marching through the streets of Halifax. I'm pretty sure those men are Royal Marines.

Any plans to have Royal Canadian Marines in this timeline?
 
Not HEMA whatever that might be? Did a weeks cutless training with an old time CPO PTI (he was over 65, never did tell us how much over! fitter than a butchers dog still) from Whale Island way back in 1980 whilst working on a film unit.
 
Some of those photos are new to me. You have one captioned as the crew of the Niobe marching through the streets of Halifax. I'm pretty sure those men are Royal Marines.

Any plans to have Royal Canadian Marines in this timeline?

They very likely are Royal Marines, Niobe was sent to Canada with a decent number of Royal Navy. I also have photos of Rainbows mess decks where personnel in Marine uniforms seem to be mingling with the crew.

I would imagine Royal Canadian Marines would be founded during or after WWII as an amphibious force if they are going to happen ;)
 
They very likely are Royal Marines, Niobe was sent to Canada with a decent number of Royal Navy. I also have photos of Rainbows mess decks where personnel in Marine uniforms seem to be mingling with the crew.

I would imagine Royal Canadian Marines would be founded during or after WWII as an amphibious force if they are going to happen ;)
More like a commando force like the RM. We just don't have the population to sustain a USMC type force.
 
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