Question: Sigismund Jagiellon for Austria?

[Mccdtk]

Having come back to my old idea of Prince Albert, Bona Sforza's tragically-lost child, surviving and inheriting Poland I was doing research on Sigismund II the Old. I stumbled upon a mention of Elisabeth Habsburg (his mother) hoping for him to inherit Austria.
Is there any more information on this? After whom would he be to inherit? The only dates that make sense are that he'd inherit it after HRE Frederick III, but he had a son, so it doesn't exactly match.

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

Having come back to my old idea of Prince Albert, Bona Sforza's tragically-lost child, surviving and inheriting Poland I was doing research on Sigismund II the Old. I stumbled upon a mention of Elisabeth Habsburg (his mother) hoping for him to inherit Austria.
Is there any more information on this? After whom would he be to inherit? The only dates that make sense are that he'd inherit it after HRE Frederick III, but he had a son, so it doesn't exactly match.

Sigismund's grandfather (maternal) was Albert II of Austria who didn't have surviving male grandchildren (Albert's son, Ladislaus V died young and childless) so Elizabeth thought that her sons are rightful heirs to his share of Austria, maybe if there was some massive Jagiellon-wank like idk, Casimir IV listening to Zbigniew Oleśnicki, bishop of Kraków to gather mercenary army before striking on TO instead of confirming noble's privileges and dunked on TO fast, than managed to supress noble opposition in Poland and somewhat restore his power over Lithuania, he could bully Frederick III into awarding parts of Austria to his son.

 

[isabella]

Sigismund's grandfather (maternal) was Albert II of Austria who didn't have surviving male grandchildren (Albert's son, Ladislaus V died young and childless) so Elizabeth thought that her sons are rightful heirs to his share of Austria, maybe if there was some massive Jagiellon-wank like idk, Casimir IV listening to Zbigniew Oleśnicki, bishop of Kraków to gather mercenary army before striking on TO instead of confirming noble's privileges and dunked on TO fast, than managed to supress noble opposition in Poland and somewhat restore his power over Lithuania, he could bully Frederick III into awarding parts of Austria to his son.

Elizabeth’s claim had no legal base as Austria belonged explicitly to the Habsburg in male line-only. A better way for getting a Jagiellon as ruler of Austria would be kill off Charles and Ferdinand before they had children, while Louis II of Hungary had heirs by Mary. This way Spain would be inherited by Eleanor, Burgundy by either Eleanor or Isabella and Louis II would get Austria for the mutual succession pact between his father and Maximilian I.

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

Elizabeth’s claim had no legal base as Austria belonged explicitly to the Habsburg in male line-only. A better way for getting a Jagiellon as ruler of Austria would be kill off Charles and Ferdinand before they had children, while Louis II of Hungary had heirs by Mary. This way Spain would be inherited by Eleanor, Burgundy by either Eleanor or Isabella and Louis II would get Austria for the mutual succession pact between his father and Maximilian I.

Yeah, but OP wanted Sigismund to inherit Austria, so I made scenario aimed to do exactly that.

 

[isabella]

Yeah, but OP wanted Sigismund to inherit Austria, so I made scenario aimed to do exactly that.

The OP asked ONLY for some clarification about that info who he had found, not a scenario in which that could happen…

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

The OP asked ONLY for some clarification about that info who he had found, not a scenario in which that could happen…

Ah Ok, I misinterpreted OP's intention but I gave source of Sigismund's claim and Elizabeth of Austria wasn't exactly most legalistic person around (she applied the laws that suited her).

 

[ordinarylittleme]

(she applied the laws that suited her).

?

 

[Jan Olbracht]

?

Elizabeth claimed Hungarian and Bohemian throne for her sons. But:

1) Hungarian and Bohemian thrones were semi-elective.

2) Elizabeth had older sister.

She ignored first point completly and for second point her response was, that woman can't inherit but can pass her claims to her sons, and Elizabeth's sister had no sons.

 

[isabella]

Ah Ok, I misinterpreted OP's intention but I gave source of Sigismund's claim and Elizabeth of Austria wasn't exactly most legalistic person around (she applied the laws that suited her).

Elizabeth claimed Hungarian and Bohemian throne for her sons. But:

1) Hungarian and Bohemian thrones were semi-elective.

2) Elizabeth had older sister.

She ignored first point completly and for second point her response was, that woman can't inherit but can pass her claims to her sons, and Elizabeth's sister had no sons.

I suspected something like that…

 

[kasumigenx]

Elizabeth claimed Hungarian and Bohemian throne for her sons. But:

1) Hungarian and Bohemian thrones were semi-elective.

2) Elizabeth had older sister.

She ignored first point completly and for second point her response was, that woman can't inherit but can pass her claims to her sons, and Elizabeth's sister had no sons.

Maximilian can marry Margaret of Thuringia, the niece of the Polish Queen instead of Mary of Burgundy which would antagonize the Jagiellons.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Maximilian can marry Margaret of Thuringia, the niece of the Polish Queen instead of Mary of Burgundy which would antagonize the Jagiellons.

Burgundian match was more valuable

 

[isabella]

Maximilian can marry Margaret of Thuringia, the niece of the Polish Queen instead of Mary of Burgundy which would antagonize the Jagiellons.

The Burgundian match was much more valuable and Margaret far too old for Maximilian

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

?

She thought that somehow her sons are rightful heirs to Hungary and Bohemia despite throne in that countries being semi-elective and her having older sisters, also she wanted to get parts of Austria for her sons despite it having male-line only inheritance.

 

[Mccdtk]

Sigismund's grandfather (maternal) was Albert II of Austria who didn't have surviving male grandchildren (Albert's son, Ladislaus V died young and childless) so Elizabeth thought that her sons are rightful heirs to his share of Austria, maybe if there was some massive Jagiellon-wank like idk, Casimir IV listening to Zbigniew Oleśnicki, bishop of Kraków to gather mercenary army before striking on TO instead of confirming noble's privileges and dunked on TO fast, than managed to supress noble opposition in Poland and somewhat restore his power over Lithuania, he could bully Frederick III into awarding parts of Austria to his son.

Oh that is interesting. There was a possibility of Casimir IV cutting down the nobles' position in size?

 

[ordinarylittleme]

She thought that somehow her sons are rightful heirs to Hungary and Bohemia despite throne in that countries being semi-elective and her having older sisters, also she wanted to get parts of Austria for her sons despite it having male-line only inheritance.

I wonder how she planned to do that

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

Oh that is interesting. There was a possibility of Casimir IV cutting down the nobles' position in size?

Well, for first 10 years of his reign he refused to confirm privileges, so if either there would be no war with TO or had he listened to Oleśnicki and waited to collect money for mercenaries outright instead of asking nobles for help, he could at least curb their position yes.

I wonder how she planned to do that

She didn't have plan per se, while she was loyal to her family, fertile and ambitious, she was subpar politician.

 

[Mccdtk]

Well, for first 10 years of his reign he refused to confirm privileges, so if either there would be no war with TO or had he listened to Oleśnicki and waited to collect money for mercenaries outright instead of asking nobles for help, he could at least curb their position yes.

I wonder if he could've pulled off the mercenary strat. I mean surely the nobles would've realised what was going on if he started raising the funds, right?

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

I wonder if he could've pulled off the mercenary strat. I mean surely the nobles would've realised what was going on if he started raising the funds, right?

Well, one of the biggest landowners in country, aforementioned bishop Oleśnicki already started gathering funds for that when Casimir decided to be impatient and instead ask nobles for participation in war.

 

[Mccdtk]

Well, one of the biggest landowners in country, aforementioned bishop Oleśnicki already started gathering funds for that when Casimir decided to be impatient and instead ask nobles for participation in war.

Well, as I read about Oleśnicki, it seems that Casimir and the Bishop would have to reconcile first. Casimir didn't really seem to like him much

 

[Mccdtk]

Elizabeth’s claim had no legal base as Austria belonged explicitly to the Habsburg in male line-only. A better way for getting a Jagiellon as ruler of Austria would be kill off Charles and Ferdinand before they had children, while Louis II of Hungary had heirs by Mary. This way Spain would be inherited by Eleanor, Burgundy by either Eleanor or Isabella and Louis II would get Austria for the mutual succession pact between his father and Maximilian I.

While a lot of death all round, do you recon Austria could pass through Louis, John and Alexander to Sigismund following Charles' and Ferdinand's deaths? I know the treaty only included Vladislaus' progeny but maybe there was some wiggle room?