pro german poland

how could the germans make the polish their allies instead of enemies ,maybe give the polish the territory that they claimed from the soviets in a german soviet war?
 

Deleted member 1487

how could the germans make the polish their allies instead of enemies ,maybe give the polish the territory that they claimed from the soviets in a german soviet war?
Short of ASBs the Poles did not want to be saddled to either Germany or the USSR because they knew it would be effective slavery. They were more than happy to ride Germany's coattails in the mid-late 1930s because they got territory out of it (Teschen), they broke with Hitler when he offered an alliance and were willing to suffer the sanctions and threats that he started to issue.

I guess they could become an 'ally' if Hitler let Goering work on the British negotiators again to get them to convince Poland to give up Danzig and part of the corridor (a couple of sources I've seen state that it looked like it would have worked too), which means economically Poland would largely be dependent on Germany for access to the sea, though not totally due to Gdynia; in that case they'd be slowly squeezed until they did what Germany wanted, like with Hungary.
 
Most likely if Poland agrees for Hitler's demands Sanacja regime would be overthrown. With government's growing unpopularity (regime faced massive peasant strikes) such decision would be nail in the coffin for Sanacja.
 

Deleted member 94680

Well there’s a historical window of opportunity...

9-C89-B245-F1-CC-46-B8-B16-F-67-E9-BBE94394.jpg
 

Deleted member 1487

Well there’s a historical window of opportunity...

9-C89-B245-F1-CC-46-B8-B16-F-67-E9-BBE94394.jpg
How do you figure?
The Poles insisted on stating that it did not nullify any previous international agreements, in particular the Franco-Polish Military Alliance. Nevertheless, by easing Poland's disputes with Germany bilaterally, the treaty weakened France's diplomatic position against Germany.

To allay any fears of a war against the Soviet Union, on May 5, 1934, Poland renewed the Soviet–Polish Non-Aggression Pact, which had been first signed on July 25, 1932. It was extended until December 31, 1945, ignoring Hitler’s repeated suggestion to form a German-Polish alliance against the Soviets. [8]

Piłsudski distrusted German intentions on the whole but perceived Hitler's origins as an Austrian rather than a Prussian as a mitigating factor and stated that Hitler should stay in power as long as possible. [11]
 
I seem to remember an alternate history written by a Pole in Polish about Poland siding with the Germans, defeating the USSR, and then turning on the Germans. I think I read about it somewhere on this forum - albeit a number of years ago. I always wish it had been translated into English.
 

Deleted member 109224

Have the Briande-Stresemann attempts at a European Confederation succeed. Then have France convince the Poles to be the third leading partner in this European Confederation.
 

Deleted member 94680

How do you figure?

Because it’s a window of opportunity? You know, a chance for something to occur: ie, if things were done differently (more intelligently?) results may have been different?
 
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Deleted member 1487

Because it’s a window of opportunity? You know, a chance fir something to occur: ie, if things were done differently (more intelligently?) results may have been different?
That's my point, what window? Pilsudski was repeatedly offered and alliance and turned it down.
 

Deleted member 94680

That's my point, what window? Pilsudski was repeatedly offered and alliance and turned it down.

OTL, yes. But there were negotiations for the non-aggression pact, no? If the negotiations had gone differently (i.e. the window of opportunity had been taken) then maybe something could have been agreed to build upon. ATL as opposed to OTL.

I don’t understand how this is a difficult concept to grasp.
 

Deleted member 1487

OTL, yes. But there were negotiations for the non-aggression pact, no? If the negotiations had gone differently (i.e. the window of opportunity had been taken) then maybe something could have been agreed to build upon. ATL as opposed to OTL.

I don’t understand how this is a difficult concept to grasp.
That's the thing, the Poles were only interested in a non-aggression pact; if that was contingent on an alliance they wouldn't take that in 1934. That's the problem.
 
CountofDooku's TL "Co-Prosperity Sphere" has Poland join the axis powers. Long story short, Hitler and his cohorts are either removed or have their powers severely reduced after a military coup in 1938 restores the monarchy. Poland is basically blackmailed by the restored imperial government into giving up all lands which formerly used to be part of the German Empire, in turn the Poles would maintain their "independence" against the Soviet Union which they fear more as well as being promised land east in Belorussia. May not be the most plausible but it's something.
 
CountofDooku's TL "Co-Prosperity Sphere" has Poland join the axis powers. Long story short, Hitler and his cohorts are either removed or have their powers severely reduced after a military coup in 1938 restores the monarchy. Poland is basically blackmailed by the restored imperial government into giving up all lands which formerly used to be part of the German Empire, in turn the Poles would maintain their "independence" against the Soviet Union which they fear more as well as being promised land east in Belorussia. May not be the most plausible but it's something.
Link to timeline?
 
CountofDooku's TL "Co-Prosperity Sphere" has Poland join the axis powers. Long story short, Hitler and his cohorts are either removed or have their powers severely reduced after a military coup in 1938 restores the monarchy. Poland is basically blackmailed by the restored imperial government into giving up all lands which formerly used to be part of the German Empire, in turn the Poles would maintain their "independence" against the Soviet Union which they fear more as well as being promised land east in Belorussia. May not be the most plausible but it's something.
Completly ASB. Poland would not give western provinces to Germany without a war. And after such war Poland by default would not be friendly towards Germany.
 
Maybe if Poland has both Upper Silesia with Cieszyn and Pomerellia and has a population exchange with germany it is possible.

Only an Austrian ruled Germany can give that.
 
Completly ASB. Poland would not give western provinces to Germany without a war. And after such war Poland by default would not be friendly towards Germany.

I agree, but I would also add that even if Poland gave Pomerania, Danzig etc. without a fight, because blackmailed, they then would not be friendly towards Germany. It seldom happens that blackmail victims are sincerely friendly to the blackmailers.

We even have an OTL example. Romania was blackmailed by Germany, the only difference being that they had to give up territory not directly to Germany but to Hungary. They did cave in without a fight. But when the opportunity came, Romania turned against Germany and Hungary, and entered Transylvania again. They still lost the territory they had to give to the SU, but Cluj today is in Romania.
 
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Deleted member 1487

I agree, but I would also add that even if Poland gave Pomerania, Danzig etc. without a fight, because blackmailed, they then would not be friendly towards Germany. It seldom happens that blackmail victims are sincerely friendly to the blackmailers.

We even have an OTL example. Romania was blackmailed by Germany, the only difference being that they had to give up territory not directly to Germany but to Hungary. They did cave in without a fight. But when the opportunity came, Romania turned against Germany and Hungary, and entered Transylvania again. They still lost the territory they had to give to the SU, but Cluj today is in Romania.
In 1944 Romania was being blackmailed by the USSR in effect and still ended up effectively a colony of the USSR despite their wartime alliance.
 
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