Will we see the coronation of an non-orthodox monarch (I read that the Greek Church refused crowning Otto because he didn't convert to orthodoxy, or perhaps it didn't happen because the Religious Establishmment didn't forgive him the forced separation from the Ecumenical Patriarchate) ).

Or maybe our "first choice candidate" chooses to embrace the faith of his new subjects.... something that some protestant prince did to get crowned as Tsar of Russia, by the way...
I believe part of the arrangement Otto made with the Church Establishment in Greece was to make it so all his children, provided he had any, would be brought up as Greek Orthodox Christians as opposed to his Roman Catholic and his wife's Lutheranism.

In OTL, King "First Choice" was a Lutheran ruling a majority Catholic country, and yet it didn't seem to be much of an issue as he was generally open minded about the religious persuasion of his people and he deftly stayed away from religious matters. That said I don't believe he ever converted to Catholicism during his lifetime, but his children were brought up as Roman Catholics. There may be a bit more impetus for King "First Choice" to convert in order to ingratiate himself to his new subjects, at the very least his children will be Orthodox.
 
I believe part of the arrangement Otto made with the Church Establishment in Greece was to make it so all his children, provided he had any, would be brought up as Greek Orthodox Christians as opposed to his Roman Catholic and his wife's Lutheranism.

In OTL, King "First Choice" was a Lutheran ruling a majority Catholic country, and yet it didn't seem to be much of an issue as he was generally open minded about the religious persuasion of his people and he deftly stayed away from religious matters. That said I don't believe he ever converted to Catholicism during his lifetime, but his children were brought up as Roman Catholics. There may be a bit more impetus for King "First Choice" to convert in order to ingratiate himself to his new subjects, at the very least his children will be Orthodox.

Translation from Wikipédia en français.

The majority of Otho approaching, research is carried out in the European archives to find the exact protocol of the coronation of the Byzantine emperors. Holy chrism is brought from Constantinople while regalia, inspired by the art in vogue under the Comneni and Paleologi, are commissioned in Munich for use in the enthronement of Otho. The new regime hopes to establish a kind of filiation between the Byzantine Empire and the Kingdom of Greece, which is not to please either the Ottoman Empire or Tsarist Russia. On the side of the Greeks, it is especially hoped that the young king takes advantage of his coronation to embrace the orthodox religion. It is also the wish of St. Petersburg, which is once again pressing, through its diplomats, for Othon to abjure Catholicism. This, however, is not the desire of the king, who feels oppressed by the various interventions of Russia and refuses to go against his conscience.

The Greek Holy Synod finally refused to consecrate a "schismatic", the coronation ceremony is postponed and the festivities that accompany the enthronement of Othon are reduced to a minimum, without any foreign legation being invited to Athens for the occasion.


That's what I was talking about.....neither Otto nor the rest of Greek monarchs did have a "formal" coronation.
 
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(Translation from Wikipédia en français):


"The majority of Otho approaching, research is carried out in the European archives to find the exact protocol of the coronation of the Byzantine emperors. Holy chrism is brought from Constantinople while regalia, inspired by the art in vogue under the Comneni and Paleologi, are commissioned in Munich for use in the enthronement of Otho. The new regime hopes to establish a kind of filiation between the Byzantine Empire and the Kingdom of Greece, which is not to please either the Ottoman Empire or Tsarist Russia. On the side of the Greeks, it is especially hoped that the young king takes advantage of his coronation to embrace the orthodox religion. It is also the wish of St. Petersburg, which is once again pressing, through its diplomats, for Othon to abjure Catholicism. This, however, is not the desire of the king, who feels oppressed by the various interventions of Russia and refuses to go against his conscience.

The Greek Holy Synod finally refused to consecrate a "schismatic", the coronation ceremony is postponed and the festivities that accompany the enthronement of Othon are reduced to a minimum, without any foreign legation being invited to Athens for the occasion "


That's what I was talking about.....neither Otto nor the rest of Greek monarchs did have a "formal" coronation.
Of all the Wikipedia pages I've seen on Otto, that French Wikipedia article is the most extensive. In that case it probably would make sense for L to convert to Orthodoxy, at least publicly, to ensure his reign doesn't go sideways right from the start.
 
regalia, inspired by the art in vogue under the Comneni and Paleologi
That rather contradicts the information here, and the images contained therein. The regalia of Otto were typically 19th-century European.

Also, the objections of foreign powers to Byzantine connotations aside, there are two other obstacles: finances and the king's constitutional position. For the former, lavish coronation ceremonies are rather out of step with the fiscal situation of the country While Otto was essentially an absolute monarch and could claim (or have claimed on his behalf, as his father did) substantial funds, whoever becomes the king of Greece will be essentially an elected king, forced to operate under a constitutional framework and a formidable chief minister in the person of Kapodistrias. For the same reason, any claims to Byzantine absolutism that a coronation in that style would imply would probably be suspect in the eyes of the more liberal Greek politicians (IOTL the kings simply took an oath of office before parliament partly in order to highlight their constitutional role). Of course, exceptions could be made for especially momentous occasions such as a first monarch (and I suspect that if/when Constantinople is recovered, there is no way in hell that a full imperial coronation will not happen, unless Greece is a republic by then).
 
That rather contradicts the information here, and the images contained therein. The regalia of Otto were typically 19th-century European.

Also, the objections of foreign powers to Byzantine connotations aside, there are two other obstacles: finances and the king's constitutional position. For the former, lavish coronation ceremonies are rather out of step with the fiscal situation of the country While Otto was essentially an absolute monarch and could claim (or have claimed on his behalf, as his father did) substantial funds, whoever becomes the king of Greece will be essentially an elected king, forced to operate under a constitutional framework and a formidable chief minister in the person of Kapodistrias. For the same reason, any claims to Byzantine absolutism that a coronation in that style would imply would probably be suspect in the eyes of the more liberal Greek politicians (IOTL the kings simply took an oath of office before parliament partly in order to highlight their constitutional role). Of course, exceptions could be made for especially momentous occasions such as a first monarch (and I suspect that if/when Constantinople is recovered, there is no way in hell that a full imperial coronation will not happen, unless Greece is a republic by then).


But British monarchs had lavish coronations ceremonies indeed...... and no one can accuse them (at least in 19th century) of absolutism....
 
But British monarchs had lavish coronations ceremonies indeed...... and no one can accuse them (at least in 19th century) of absolutism....
Sadly little Greece is not Great Britain, and spending money on a lavish coronation ceremony would be in poor taste so soon after a devastating war which left hundreds of thousands of people destitute and impoverished, and the country on the verge of bankruptcy. Greece also doesn't have anything in the way of Crown Jewels or royal regalia as much of the Byzantine treasury had been captured in the 4th Crusade and whatever remained was taken by the Ottomans when they conquered Constantinople in 1453. Otto had to buy a crown, scepter, and sword from a jeweler in Paris for his coronation, which he never actually had, and when he was ousted in 1862 he took them with him. Its my intention that TTL's King of Greece will have a coronation, but it be relatively modest especially in comparison to those of the Powers.
 
Sadly little Greece is not Great Britain, and spending money on a lavish coronation ceremony would be in poor taste so soon after a devastating war which left hundreds of thousands of people destitute and impoverished, and the country on the verge of bankruptcy. Greece also doesn't have anything in the way of Crown Jewels or royal regalia as much of the Byzantine treasury had been captured in the 4th Crusade and whatever remained was taken by the Ottomans when they conquered Constantinople in 1453. Otto had to buy a crown, scepter, and sword from a jeweler in Paris for his coronation, which he never actually had, and when he was ousted in 1862 he took them with him. Its my intention that TTL's King of Greece will have a coronation, but it be relatively modest especially in comparison to those of the Powers.

Oh, I'm sure about that.....what I meant was that having WHATEVER religious coronation ceremony instead of plain and simple oath of office would gain (IMHO) to the King's cause more followers.... nobody doubts the influence the Church retained on the common people in these days (OTL Russian party exploited the Philo-orthodox stuff very well). So if the new King accepts the crown ALSO from the Church Hierarchy, he would undoubtedly win another powerful ally, rendering him in turn less dependent of Kapodistrian party......

Besides of the obvious fact that claiming some sort of Byzantine continuity would also enhance his position as Basileus
 
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Oh, I'm sure about that.....what I meant was that having WHATEVER religious coronation ceremony instead of plain and simple oath of office would gain (IMHO) to the King's cause more followers.... nobody doubts the influence the Church retained on the common people in these days(OTL Russian party exploited the Philo-orthodox stuff very well). So if the new accepts the crown ALSO from the Church Hierarchy, he would undoubtedly win another powerful ally, rendering him in turn less dependent of Kapodistrian party......

Besides of the obvious fact that claiming some sort of Byzantine continuity would also enhance his position as Basileus
I fully intend on having a proper coronation ceremony for King L*****d when he arrives in Greece it just won't be of the size or scale of say Tsar Nicholas' or the British King, soon to be Queen's coronation. I also intend to use as much Byzantine imagery as possible in the coronation, which admittedly won't be all that much sadly given the Powers influence over Greece in this period and their dislike of everything Byzantine. But as time progresses and the fortunes of Greece improve, I wouldn't rule out more pomp and circumstance for future coronation ceremonies.

While he may not be entirely in favor of converted to Orthodoxy, the man I have in mind for the throne of Greece was not a stupid man by any means, and will do whatever is necessary to secure himself upon the throne of Greece. So if that means kowtowing to the Orthodox Church, he will do that if it means a more stable reign.
 
King Leopold I confirmed. This is the guy that made Belgium. A general in Napoleon's army by the age of 25, he is smart, capable, and iron-willed. All while holding relatively liberal sensibilities and thus able to transition Greece into the modern world. I can see a Greek restoration by the end of his life.
 
Greece could never get the Congo, especially while it has huge territorial claims on its only neighbor. More likely a Congo Free State never happens.
 
Yeah, I agree with you there; still, no Congo Free State would be an improvement for that region (which, to be fair, ain't saying much)...
 
King Leopold I confirmed. This is the guy that made Belgium. A general in Napoleon's army by the age of 25, he is smart, capable, and iron-willed. All while holding relatively liberal sensibilities and thus able to transition Greece into the modern world. I can see a Greek restoration by the end of his life.
Technically he wasn't a general in Napoleon's armies, he was a general in Tsar Alexander's armies, but he did spend a year in Paris as Napoleon's "guest" from 1806 to 1807.
Just keep Greece out of the Congo, please...
Can confirm, Greece will not get the Congo in this timeline. Greece's imperialist ambitions will be achieved much closer to home.
 
I fully intend on having a proper coronation ceremony for King L*****d when he arrives in Greece it just won't be of the size or scale of say Tsar Nicholas' or the British King, soon to be Queen's coronation. I also intend to use as much Byzantine imagery as possible in the coronation, which admittedly won't be all that much sadly given the Powers influence over Greece in this period and their dislike of everything Byzantine. But as time progresses and the fortunes of Greece improve, I wouldn't rule out more pomp and circumstance for future coronation ceremonies.

:love:

I mean, they probably won’t be holding a triumph with prisoners of war or a chariot race in the Hippodrome anytime soon, but you have to start somewhere, right? I fully support a more culturally Byzantine Greece!
 
I hope that the more Roman-leaning Greek nationalism will keep the Byzantine naming convention from becoming as universal as it is OTL.
 
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Now you're getting my Romanophile brain kicking in Earl. And I have been so good...

I have heard that some Greeks were still calling themselves Romans all the way up to the early twentieth century. Does anyone happen to know how common it was at this point?
 
Now you're getting my Romanophile brain kicking in Earl. And I have been so good...

I have heard that some Greeks were still calling themselves Romans all the way up to the early twentieth century. Does anyone happen to know how common it was at this point?
Well I do consider myself a bit of a Byzantophile.:biggrin:

As far as a I know there are some Christian communities in the Middle East, specifically the Greek ones that still call themselves Romans, or Romioi to this day, but regarding this specific time period I'm probably not the best person to ask.
 
"Romios" was the prevalent endonym until the mid-19th century, and in most Ottoman Greek communities it continued until well beyond that. It is only through the citizenship in the modern Greek state, and the introduction of a state-sponsored education system, that "Hellene" has become (again) the standard endonym used by the Greeks. Still, in some expressions, such as "to Romaiiko" ("the Roman state/affairs", a - usually disparagingly used - synonym for the Greek state apparatus), or "Romiosyni" ("Roman-ism/-ity", i.e. the community of all the Greeks), it persists to this day.

On the "Byzantine" issue, however, it is likely that precisely in order to highlight the "Greekness" of Byzantium, the nationalist-minded Greek scholars of the 19th century will (much as IOTL) actually prefer to use the term "Byzantine" as a way to distance it from its Latin roots. Traditional nationalist historiography was more interested in highlighting the Greek character of Byzantium, rather than its continuities with the Roman Empire.

One thing that probably will be different though, by avoiding Otto and his Classically-minded Bavarians coming, is that modern Greek culture (and education) will not be as warped by the obsession with Classical Greece as IOTL. Along with the continued influence of the practical-minded Kapodistrias, this may have knock-on benefits: IOTL, there was a tendency for the Greek education system to favour a classical philological education producing lawyers and philologists, whereas what it needed was engineers, doctors, and businessmen. To a degree, this may reduce the whole language quarrel to less extreme levels as well, and generally help Greece reconcile "popular" culture with the elite culture far earlier than was the case IOTL.
 
Part 30: The Conference of London
Part 30: The Conference of London

PGBaF Coat of Arms.png

The Coat of Arms of King Leopold of Greece

Four Months after the signing of the Treaty of Adrianople, which among other things called for an armistice between the Ottoman Empire and the Greek State, representatives of Britain, France, Russia, the Ottoman Empire and Greece arrived in the city of London to determine the finer points of the peace treaty between them. In addition, plenipotentiaries from Austria, Bavaria, Portugal, Prussia, Saxony, Spain, and Württemberg were also in attendance in a purely observatory role.[1] By the opening of the Conference of London on the 2nd of February, many of the details for the treaty had already been agreed upon by the Conference’s participants. The autonomy of Greece was settled almost immediately in the favor of the Greeks. Despite some initial resistance by the Ottomans, the powers agreed to acknowledge Greece as a fully independent state, separate completely from the Ottoman Empire. The Powers also agreed to guarantee the sanctity of the Greek State and provide it with a loan in the range of 60,000,000 French Francs.

The form of government for Greece was also dealt with rather quickly as the Conference’s attendees immediately agreed to the Conference of Poros’ proposals, establishing Greece as a monarchy. Whether it was to be a constitutional or absolutist monarchy was left to the discretion of the Greeks. The only issue remaining was the choice of King for Greece. In years past, as many as seven different candidates had been proposed as options for the Greek Crown ranging from the Duke of Nemours to the Duke of Sussex, but by the Fall of 1829 only one candidate remained, Prince Leopold of Saxe-Coburg. Born the third son of Duke Francis of Saxe-coburg-Saalfeld and his wife Countess Augusta Reuss of Ebersdorf, Leopold was at first glance, a man of little importance, yet surprisingly his fate would remarkably become intertwined with the Great Powers of his age.

In 1805, his sister Julienne married the Russian Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich, brother to Tsar Alexander I. Leopold as an extended member of the Tsar’s family was admitted to the Imperial Russian Army at a young age and bestowed the rank of Major in the Imperial Guard. While it was an honorific rank, Leopold would soon take to the field of battle joining the Tsar at the Battle of Austerlitz, where he exhibited his bravery, his intelligence and his gift for leading men. Despite young Leopold’s valor, the allies were defeated by the French bringing an end to the War of the Third Coalition and he was soon after taken to Paris when Saxe Coburg fell to the French. For several months, Leopold would dwell in the court of Napoleon as little more than a prisoner in a gilded cage before he escaped France for Russia in 1807.

350px-Leopold_I_als_ruiter.jpg

Leopold in the Napoleonic Wars

Leopold would continue to fight Napoleon and France for the next 8 years of his life, taking part in the War of the Fourth Coalition, the War of the Fifth Coalition, the French Invasion of Russia, the War of the Sixth Coalition and the last Hundred Days of Napoleon. Rising through the ranks of the Russian Army, Leopold served with distinction in the battles of Lutzen, Bautzen, Kulm, and Leipzig. By the end of the Napoleonic Wars, Leopold had achieved the rank of Lieutenant General at the young age of 25, and he commanded the Tsar’s Cuirassiers to great effect at Kulm where he was awarded the Cross of St. George by Tsar Alexander himself.

After Napoleon’s final defeat in 1815, Leopold found himself in London, where on a chance encounter he won the heart and the hand of Princess Charlotte of Wales with his dashing good looks and infamous charm. The two fell madly in love and were married on the 2nd of May 1816 and were truly happy in their short time together. Despite his own meager standing, Charlotte promised to work hand in hand with her husband as equals ruling Britain as husband and wife, rather than Queen and Prince Consort. Even her father Prince George, who had thus far been dismissive of Charlotte and her opinions, had been won over by Leopold, viewing him as an appropriate match for his daughter and gave his consent to their marriage.[2]

350px-Princess_Charlotte_Augusta_of_Wales_and_Leopold_I_after_George_Dawe.jpg

Princess Charlotte and Leopold

After their marriage, Leopold and Charlotte left the spotlight of London for the privacy of Surrey and Claremont House where they lived together in perfect happiness the likes of which was rarely seen in a royal wedding. As the future Prince Consort, Leopold was inducted into the Order of the Garter and appointed to the rank of Field Marshal in the British Army, although it was a purely honorific commissioning, and he was also provided a yearly stipend of £60,000 allowing him to live in relative luxury with Charlotte. The young couple soon became the hope of the British people with their enlightened views and their charming nature. When the news of Charlotte’s pregnancy filled the country with gossip and joy at their good fortune. Sadly, tragedy would strike the young couple, when Charlotte died in childbirth alongside their unborn son on the 5th of November 1817. The loss of Charlotte utterly destroyed Leopold, denying him everything he had ever wanted. With the love of his life gone and his hopes and dreams gone with her, Leopold fell into a terrible depression that would remain with him for the next 13 years.

The death of Princess Charlotte plunged the House of Hanover into a succession crisis. It had been presumed that the throne would pass from King George III to his son, Prince George and then to his daughter Charlotte, but her untimely demise had thrown that plan into the fire. As the Regent was unable to receive a divorce from his wife Caroline, his brothers the Duke of Clarence, the Duke of Kent, and the Duke of Cambridge were forced to seek marriages of their own. To the good fortune of Leopold, the Duke of Kent, Prince Edward married Leopold’s sister Victoria. The marriage between Edward and Victoria proved fruitful providing the United Kingdom with a successor to Princess Charlotte, in the young Princess Alexandrina Victoria. The birth of Victoria provided Leopold with another opportunity at prominence in Britain, if he could not serve as Prince Consort in his own right, he could at least become his niece’s adviser or even her regent should George and his brothers meet their ends before she reached her majority.[3] Sadly, for Leopold, George IV and his brothers continued to linger on year after year, frustrating Leopold’s ambition once again.

Fate was a fickle creature however, and Leopold was provided with a third chance to fulfill his aspirations of greatness in the form of the Kingship of Greece. Leopold had been acutely aware of the war in Greece and while he never considered himself a Philhellene, he took some interest in the struggle of the Hellenes. When word reached Prince Leopold of his candidacy for the Crown of Greece in the Fall of 1829, Leopold grabbed a hold of this opportunity with all his might and refused to let go. He poured himself over every book and map of Greece making sure to catch every little detail every little fact of this country with his personal physician and close friend Christian Friedrich Stockmar, Baron Stockmar. He hired tutors to help him with his Greek, which had become rather shoddy after years of little use and he talked with associates who had traveled to Greece for their opinions and knowledge of the country.

Leopold also opened a private correspondence with Governor Ioannis Kapodistrias of Greece regarding the land and its people and what his role might be should he accept this opportunity. While he was perturbed at Kapodistrias’ characterization of a rustic little land and its impoverished people, Stockmar’s report on the incredible hardiness of the Greek people and Prime Minister George Canning’s support of his candidacy did much to bolster his flagging opinions on Greece. The moment the throne of Greece was formally offered to him in the opening days of the Conference of London, Leopold enthusiastically accepted. The thought of ruling Greece and restoring it to its former greatness restored some of the vigor and romanticism of his youth that had rotted away after so many years of despair. However, his acceptance of the Greek throne was predicated on the Powers meeting three of his demands.

320px-Leopold_I%2C_King_of_the_Belgians.JPG

Leopold circa 1830
Firstly, he deigned upon the Conference the importance of a loan for Greece. A sum of 12,000,000 French Francs had already been agreed upon by the Conference but through his correspondence with Kapodistrias and the work of his friend Dr. Stockmar, Leopold demanded that sum be increased fivefold. After some deliberation, the Powers agreed to a loan of 60,000,000 Francs to Greece which would be delivered in three installments over the following three years. The Second of Leopold’s demands was a guarantee from the Powers in regards to the security of Greece. He requested a continued military presence in Greece by the Powers until peace could be fully established across the land and to ensure the Ottoman Empire took no aggressive action against Greece for a period of five years. After some debate, the British, French, and Russian delegates agreed to this term as well. Leopold’s final demand was for the territory of Greece to be consistent with the proposal laid forth in the Poros Conference.

This last demand regarding the territorial extent of Leopold’s future kingdom nearly threatened to destroy his candidacy all together due in large part to the sickness of British Prime Minister George Canning. After his terrible illness in the Spring and Summer of 1827, Canning’s health had remained poor albeit tolerable and he bravely soldiered on despite the hardships for the next three years. Sadly, he fell ill once more in the days following the acceptance of Leopold as King of Greece and was forced to step away from the proceedings for a time. Without Canning’s influence and willpower, the British delegates in attendance dithered aimlessly for several weeks while Canning was recovering. His stand in Viscount Goderich would prove himself to be an unmitigated disaster who failed in every capacity to control the members of his delegation and his party allowing men like Wellington to make inroads in Parliament. Wellington was especially forceful in supporting the Ottoman position in the Conference and his distaste for Leopold was well known.

When Canning finally returned to the Conference in early May he quickly whipped the British representatives into shape and directed them to support the original proposal from the Poros Conference suggesting the Volos to Arta line. Despite their staunch resistance, the Ottomans were eventually cowed into submission when news of further revolts in the Balkans and the machinations of Muhammed Ali reached the ears of their representatives in London and agreed to a deal. In return for an undisclosed indemnity, the Ottomans would agree to the demands for the Arta to Volos line in addition to Crete and the islands. With Ottoman opposition at an end, the Powers finally began to formalize the terms of the Treaty of London:

The Treaty of London:
1. Greece shall be established as an independent state, and shall enjoy all the rights, political, administrative, and commercial, attached to complete independence.

2. The frontier of the State of Greece shall be limited to the line of demarcation stretching from the village of Anchiaros along the banks of the Bay of Volos in the East to the village of Farsala to the West. From there the border shall travel South along the range of hills to the village of Domokos, from which the border shall go Northwest across the Pindus Mountains to the banks of the Acheloos River near the village of Dendros. The Border will then follow the river to its most westerly point near the village of Mesopirgos before traveling to the north of the city of Arta. Finally, the border shall travel West by the shortest possible distance on land to town of Louros before heading Southwest to the village of Zalongo on the banks of the Adriatic Sea. All land south of this line of demarcation shall be ceded from the Ottoman Empire to the State of Greece. The islands of Chios, Crete, Euboea, Icaria, Psara, Samos, the Cyclades Archipelago, the Fournoi Archipelago, the Saronic Archipelago, and the Sporades Archipelago shall be ceded to the State of Greece.

3. All territory under Greek occupation hitherto unmentioned shall be restored to the Ottoman Empire in its entirety.

4. The Government of the State of Greece shall be Monarchial in nature and confided to a prince who shall bear the title, King of Greece. It is the decision of the plenipotentiaries to declare their acceptance of Prince Leopold of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha as King of Greece.

5. The sovereignty of the Kingdom of Greece shall be guaranteed by the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, the Kingdom of France, and the Russian Empire.

6. Finally, peace shall be established between the Ottoman Empire and the Kingdom of Greece.

With no objections, the Treaty of London was signed on the 29th of May 1830. After nine long years of war, the Greek War of Independence had finally come to an end.

Next Time: The Coronation of King Leo I


[1] As Austria and Prussia chose to remain neutral/ opposed to intervention in Greece they were prohibited from having any say in the writing or negotiating of the treaty.

[2] This opinion wouldn’t last very long. Leopold eventually sided with George’s wife Caroline of Brunswick in their ongoing dispute destroying whatever relationship they might have had. By the time Leopold considered the crown of Greece, King George utterly despised Leopold as well.

[3] The death of Prince Edward in 1820 and the poor health of George IV would lend credence to Leopold’s ambitions of being Victoria’s regent.
 
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