I had mentioned before that the only worthwhile targets in the OTL Albania is Valona and Korce. However, Korce belongs to Macedonia rather than Epirus.

I gave some more thought on Valona and I m inclined that its value depends on the development of infrastructure. Bear with me.

In OTL by 1886 , five years after Thessaly's annexation, the railroard from Volos reached Kalampaka on the slopes of Pindus mountains. In OTL, Trikoupis envisioned the continuation of this line towards the west - an Adriatic Railroad. In contrast to OTL, Greece has now Epirus, with Igoumenitsa as a suitable place to develop a major port. As Igoumenitsa is protected by the mountains of Northern Epirus, it is a very secure strategic location. Valona would always be exposed to the north via broad plains, making its defence problematic at best.

An east-west railroad will be of incredible strategic value and will provide a lot of commercial opportunities. It goes without saying that the projection of military power will be significantly enhanced as well.

Therefore, if the Greeks manage to build a railway through the Pindus Mountains and reach Igoumenitsa, Valona loses its strategic value and becomes a liability as it is located outside of the defensible Epirus.

Therefore, after giving it a great deal of thought and reading again the OTL proposed railway projects, I am inclined to agree that this may very well be the final Epirus border.
Oh I agree that the border could very well stay were it is and if it does it wouldn’t bother me one bit. But I could also see it moving north depending on how the southern Albanians view their Northern brethren and ow their most Southern neighbors are treated by their new government. There’s already a dialect and religious divide between the two regions, so it’s not that hard to see them turning on each other at some point. Especially if the Southern Albanians begin to get persecuted and associate their Sunni Cousins with their persecutors. If the Greeks treat the Cham and other Albanians in their new acquisitions well they could very well see the Greeks as Saviors. It’s also been noted by quite a few people that the Albanian identity while present is quite nebulous at the moment. Greece in TTL still has time to court southern Albanians with schools and economic support. Perhaps with these tools they can start to see the Greeks are preferable to the persecuting Ottomans.

And as I mentioned having a decently large Bektashi minority in their country that is loyal and treated well could do amazing things for Greek-Muslim relations when it comes to more diverse provinces in the future. Population exchanges are probably inevitable on some level but there’s a possibility that at least in certain areas and for certain groups they’d truly be voluntary which is great in both a humanitarian and economic sense. There could be a thriving Greek speaking Muslim community in Greece ITTL as opposed to then being scattered and being assimilated.
 
You're welcome ! I can't wait to see the next part, it's the only story i've read in this website, i've learned so much reading this, i'm really glad to see, it's still going on ! Keep on doing it, I will read you !
 
@Duke of Nova Scotia, I think what happens in Albania depends on the allocation of resources by the greek state. The most important of these resources is teachers. The greek state must decide where to use finite educational resources - the surplus of teachers. One region is the most important one, Macedonia. Then it is Thrace, Asia Minor and Cyprus. Albania would be the last in the list t get more greek schools and teachers.

Moreover, the greek propaganda effort won't take into account that the Bektashi are Shia with strange (for muslims) customs: the Greeks of time viewed both sunni and shia as one, the "Turkalbanians". A great deal of hindsight would be needed to change the 19th century mindset.

Since we are talking about 19th century Balkans, the treatment of the Chams will largley depend on their religion. Orthodox Chams - they were quite a few of those- will be hellenized as in OTL. Many Greeks today carry the name "Tsamis" showing Cham heritage. There is a great issue regarding muslim Chams and muslims in Epirus in general: the social aspect. Almost all chiflik-holders were muslim. Especially in the region were Chams were a sizeable minority, they controlled almost all the land. The christian sharecroppers had to pay a 10% of their production to the ottoman state and another 30% to the landowner. In general, the muslim Chams of the lowlands were hostile to their greek sharecroppers/serfs. That's why I don't see how the rebel Greek peasants won't seize the land of the Cham chilfik-holders. Social issues such as control of the land can be far more influential than religion or ethnicity.

Source for the chifliks in Epirus: Kokolakis' "The late Ioannina Vilayet"
 
@Duke of Nova Scotia, I think what happens in Albania depends on the allocation of resources by the greek state. The most important of these resources is teachers. The greek state must decide where to use finite educational resources - the surplus of teachers. One region is the most important one, Macedonia. Then it is Thrace, Asia Minor and Cyprus. Albania would be the last in the list t get more greek schools and teachers.

Moreover, the greek propaganda effort won't take into account that the Bektashi are Shia with strange (for muslims) customs: the Greeks of time viewed both sunni and shia as one, the "Turkalbanians". A great deal of hindsight would be needed to change the 19th century mindset.

Since we are talking about 19th century Balkans, the treatment of the Chams will largley depend on their religion. Orthodox Chams - they were quite a few of those- will be hellenized as in OTL. Many Greeks today carry the name "Tsamis" showing Cham heritage. There is a great issue regarding muslim Chams and muslims in Epirus in general: the social aspect. Almost all chiflik-holders were muslim. Especially in the region were Chams were a sizeable minority, they controlled almost all the land. The christian sharecroppers had to pay a 10% of their production to the ottoman state and another 30% to the landowner. In general, the muslim Chams of the lowlands were hostile to their greek sharecroppers/serfs. That's why I don't see how the rebel Greek peasants won't seize the land of the Cham chilfik-holders. Social issues such as control of the land can be far more influential than religion or ethnicity.

Source for the chifliks in Epirus: Kokolakis' "The late Ioannina Vilayet"
Broadly you make some good points, although I disagree that it requires hindsight to change the Greek view of the Bektashi. It would require something to change it though, with that I’ll agree completely. Like I said I could see a persecution of the orthodox and Bektashi leading them to gain close ties with each other, which could lead to closer ties to Greece. Say a family of Bektashi hid and maybe even died for some orthodox Albanians who made their way to Greece. This is the period of time where something like this could be whipped up into a national scandal where the Greeks suddenly see how different the Bektashi are and want to help them.

I’m not saying it’s necessarily likely but I don’t think it’s out of the question for the Greeks to view them as a separate and sympathetic entity without foresight.

I’m curious about your opinion on Greek educators targets though. Macedonia and Thrace come first, no question. Cyprus is likely the next target as well. But Asia Minor seems completely out of reach at the moment, so why send resources there? Even if you don’t use them in Albania like I suggested, using them in any of the other three seems more useful. Even Albania seems like a target more likely to pay off in the near future logically as it’s not part of the Ottoman heartland.

Also while teachers may be finite they also have a lot fewer targets to juggle ITTL. Most of the Aegean, Crete, Thessaly, and Epirus no longer need to be hyper targeted to keep Greek Culture alive and thriving in those regions as they are or soon will be Greek Territory. They also have teachers from those territories who they now might be able to spread around to other areas. So I expect Greece to have many more tearchers to spread around than in OTL.

Maybe they just focus even more on the primary targets, maybe they spread them around. I’m not sure. I don’t think it’s out of the question or a large strain on their resources for the Greeks to look at southern Albania or other border towns/regions they ignored in OTL because it took them another 30 years to get where they are now, and be significantly worse of economically while doing it.
 
But Asia Minor seems completely out of reach at the moment, so why send resources there?
Well, as in OTL, Asia Minor has a large greek population that is increasing rapidly. It is not a target for annexation, but it has simply too many Greeks. Moreover, since it is the 1850s, Smyrna is starting developing into a thriving commercial port and a center of greek learning with many and prestigious schools. The economic boom of western Asia Minor attracts also large numbers of Greek citizens from the islands and mainland, who migrate across the Aegean.
 
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Honestly, Persia is an afterthought for Britain right now, given that Northern India is in revolt and Russia has a massive army threatening to invade the Balkans. While they would like to drive the Persians from Afghanistan, they just don't have the resources nor the interest to do so right now. This suits the Persians just fine as they cement their hold over Afghanistan.
How well placed are the Qajaris and what other long term goals do they have? Assuming they successfully reclaim Afghanistan, would they be capable of driving into Central Asia or Mesopotamia if they wanted?
 
Greetings, new poster here. Would it be OK for me to inquire as to the subject matter of the next update? The title Mire of Misery leads me to believe it will be about the continuing war, with the UK and Ottomans becoming bogged down and maybe pushed back by Russia.
 
How well placed are the Qajaris and what other long term goals do they have? Assuming they successfully reclaim Afghanistan, would they be capable of driving into Central Asia or Mesopotamia if they wanted?
Outside of a few remote mountain holdouts, the Qajari's have basically occupied all of Afghanistan by the Spring of 1856. Aside from that, they've also made a few raids into Northern India, Central Asia, and Mesopatamia, but overall they've been rather defensive as they don't really have the resources to fight on multiple fronts at the same time, even with Russian "support". As for their long term goals, they would like to restore as much of the Safavid Empire as they possibly can, but they do realize that some provinces are unlikely to ever be recovered. Basically, they're aiming for the low hanging fruit right now.

Is it possible for the Greeks to reclaim Thrace and Constantinople in the future ITTL?
Given the direction of this TL, I wouldn't be surprised if they already had by the turn of the century.
The Greeks are still a long way's away from reclaiming Constantinople, so it won't be anytime soon. The Greeks may be stronger and richer ITTL right now, but they aren't anywhere near powerful enough to take and hold Constantinople just yet. In the future though...

Okay, first up is a map of what Greece will generally look like once the war is over in 1858. I'm still working out the finer details, like where the final border in Epirus will be exactly, but by in large this is what it will be. If you'd like to see a map showing Greece's gains then @Gian made a spectacular GIF of this in post #2,610 which is quite impressive if I do say so myself.
1858 Greece Timeline Map .png


Next is a map of Europe and North Africa prior to the Great Eurasian War. For convenience, I have depicted Galicia-Lodomeria as a part of the Russian Empire. While it technically is still a part of the Austrian Empire at this point in the timeline, for all intents and purposes it is a de facto part of Russia following the collapse of the Austrian Empire.


Finally, here's a crude map of the current frontlines in the war. Russia has driven the Ottomans out of Wallachia and Moldavia, and it has occupied Northern Dobruja in the Balkans. In Anatolia, Russia has pushed as far as Erzurum, while at the same time the Ottomans have troops in Abkhazia, Mingrelia, and Guria. In the Northern Caucasus, the Circassians and Caucasian Imamate (depicted as the lighter yellow) are holding their ground for now, thanks to assistance from the British and Ottomans.
Timeline Map 1855.png


Today's events reminded me to ask, how are the Armenians faring right now
As of now, they're doing about as well as they normally did under the Ottomans prior to the late 19th Century/early 20th Century. After this war, though things will probably start looking a little rougher for them.

Greetings, new poster here. Would it be OK for me to inquire as to the subject matter of the next update? The title Mire of Misery leads me to believe it will be about the continuing war, with the UK and Ottomans becoming bogged down and maybe pushed back by Russia.
You pretty much nailed it exactly. The next update will cover the fighting in the Balkans and Anatolia over the course of 1855. The Ottomans and British will certainly be in for a tough couple months, but it won't exactly be easy for the Russians either.

Also, welcome to my humble thread, I hope you enjoy it!
 
As of now, they're doing about as well as they normally did under the Ottomans prior to the late 19th Century/early 20th Century. After this war, though things will probably start looking a little rougher for them.
Let's hope it turns out better long term for both them and the Circassians. Being caught between great power politics in desirable land is always going to suck, but it wouldn't be overly difficult to have a more positive outcome than OTL
 
Earl..will Florence nightingale make an appearance in the war? And if so will she stop at Piraeus and maybe influence a young Princess or a Queen and maybe we will see an earlier evangelismos school of nursing 😉😉..just saying 😉😂
 

Gian

Banned
Earl..will Florence nightingale make an appearance in the war? And if so will she stop at Piraeus and maybe influence a young Princess or a Queen and maybe we will see an earlier evangelismos school of nursing 😉😉..just saying 😉😂
Mary Seacole could also make an appearance as well, as she also served as a nurse in the Crimean War IOTL.
 
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