Loved the last update. Looking forward for more!
With all due respect to the late professor Karpat (and I respect him way way more than the likes of McCarthy) and the great work he did on Ottoman macro-economics and demographics, I'm inclined to believe the figures above are probably underestimating the Greek population, as Ottoman censuses tended to do. This was not just politics which was a major factor right before WW1 for obvious reasons both internal (assigning parliamentary seats) and external but also the Christians sabotaging censuses in hopes of evading taxation.@Lascaris , @emperor joe according to the " Ottoman Population Records and the Census of 1881/82-1893" by Kemal Kaprat, Rhodes Sanjak had around 39,000 Ottoman Greeks and 6,000 Muslims (civil administration, gendarmerie, army , navy etc included in the Muslim category). The Chios Sanjak that included Chios, Kos, Leros, Kalymnos and some minor islands had 70,000 ottoman Greeks and 4,200 Muslims. Kastelorizo had around 4,000 ottoman Greeks and 220 Muslims.
I am writing "ottoman" Greeks, because I think the Greek Kingdom nationals were excluded.
I believe that's what you are looking for, all 3328 pages of it
Fellas, I would like to share an interesting paper on greek agriculture. The author, dr Socrates Petmezas has written a lot about greek economic history
Of these, I think the Ottomans would consider the Aegean islands as more important. Their economic value is nothing to write home about, but they control the Straits. Epirus has the lowlest economic value ofnall the mentioned regions. Thessaly was more valuable than Epirus, with large estates belonging to a turkish elite and worked by greek sharecroppers. On the other side, Thessaly was not well integrated with the trade networks inside the empire: Volos, the chief port of the region , was mostly developed after its annexation to Greece.
As Lascaris has said, the Dodecanese are actually a very likely option given their rather minimal strategic and economic value to the Ottomans. Conversely, they would be rather valuable to the Greeks with sponge fishing as you have mentioned being a huge industry throughout the islands; Rhodes' vineyards were also relatively famous around this time as were its fig groves. Additionally, the Dodecanese Greeks were also proficient sailors and capable shipbuilders and their location along important trade routes would be an added boon as well. Finally, the ~100,000 Greeks in the islands would also be pretty nice pick up for Greece, considering they only have a population around 1.4 million people right now ITTL.Given the altered circumstances ie Greek control of both Crete Chios and Samos, the Dodecanese seem a logical target with no strategic impact to the defence of the straits. So does Lesvos I think. Now the islands in the mouth of the straits, Lemons, Imbros, Tenedos and Samothrace are very unlikely short of war. As mentioned Cyprus makes also an obvious target one that already had a revolt in 1840. Then Cyprus could well develop into TTL Crete with repeated revolts to join Greece till it finally manages to do so.
@Lascaris , you are right! I forgot about the Dodecanese. They have little strategic value compared to either the northeast Aegean or Cyprus.
Interesting fact: the major industry of the Dodecanese islands was sponge fishing. I have a phd thesis -unfortunately in greek- that states there were 380 sponge fishing boats in 1854 in the Dodecanese islands. If you add the sponge boats from Hydra, Spetses, Aigina, Ermioni and Paros from the Kingdom of Greece, the fishing fleet could be well over 500 boats. It was certainly the most profitable greek fishing industry at the time. A number of influential shipping magnates owned sponge fishing fleets.
The main fishing grounds were in Tripolitania but mostly Cyrenaica. Every year the boats would be filled with divers, ladden with large quantities of hardtack and sail across the Mediterranean to their fishing grounds. So, greek instead of italian Dodecanese, may very well lead to an increased interest in Cyrenaica.
@Lascaris , were any other greek economic interests in Cyrenaica at the time?
That's really quite interesting. I knew about the prominence of the Dodecaneses' sponge industry, but I didn't know it was that large or that it reached as far as Cyrenaica. I wonder what effects an earlier Greek Dodecanese Islands would have on this.None that I can really think off other than sponge fishing, which itself was significant of course, Cyrenaica and Libya in general were not what you'd call the most developed part of the Ottoman empire at the time.
My figures put it around 90,000 to 100,000 people, with Greeks comprising well over 90% of the population.Speaking of the Dodecanese..what was the number of inhabitants it this time??
Also speaking of cyprus, while the possibility of cypriots revolting constantly is a real,the reality is, when the suez canal is opened,cyprus would be of paramount interest to the British how will like to see the island under their control and not under any foreign power,even a friendly and a allied power like greece.. however with the increased unrest of the population the British would choose one of two ways of dealing with this problem..1 try to sever the connection of the greek population to greece by enforcing an English education on the populace (not that hard since for the most part the cypriots are illiterate with one school in Nicosia) or give the cypriots autonomy within the empire with no possibility of leaving...
One important factor is that Egypt is firmly in France's sphere of influence ITTL owing to the rather pronounced French involvement in the Second Ottoman-Egyptian War. Obviously, the completion of the Suez Canal will change this dynamic and prompt greater British interest, but still don't think Britain would really gain that much by occupying Cyprus especially if a friendly (and easily coerced) Greece is interested in it as well. That being said, I wonder if Greece receiving Cyprus during this war would be too much for it to handle right now. Perhaps something along the lines of the OTL Cretan State or Principality of Samos would be established instead.That's probably projecting the early 1950s into the 19th century. Crete was arguably far more important strategically, but this did not stop her union with Greece. Cyprus on the other hand was for the most part after 1878 an imperial backwater, the British never bothered to establish serious naval and military facilities till the mid 20th century and were quite willing to hand it over to Greece in the 1910s, with their offer to hand it over to Greece as part of a British-Greek alliance in 1913 and again in 1915. Even if taken trying to enforce an English education is not likely to prove any more successful than OTL.
Nevertheless better safe than sorry, so I'd prefer Greece getting Cyprus as part of the deal for keeping neutral in the war. After all Kapodistrias is still alive TTL and in OTL he had asked the powers for Greek annexation of Cyprus.
The Dodecanese... no more than 100,000 people at this point I'd say. It was ~103,000 Greeks in the early 1900s, Kastelorizo not included.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it!Loved the last update. Looking forward for more!
Some emigration abroad is going to happen regardless of the state of the Greek economy, but it will be less than OTL owing to a stronger and more stable Greek state ITTL. I don't want to spoil anything, but the Greeks will certainly try to get Constantinople and Cyprus ITTL, Cyrenaica might be too much though.I hope Greece gets Cyprus, Constantinople in this timeline and maybe Cyrenaica later for it’s oil. Also I hope Greece will have an a stable economy. And that a lot of Greeks will not move out of the country.
In islands such as Kalymnos or Symi, half the male population worked the sponge trade. They embarked each year for a 6 months cruise along the coasts of Cyrenaica, Tripolitania and the Western Desert coast. Like the harpooners of Nantucket, the divers were paid with a cut on the catch. It was a dangerous profession, as diver's disease, currents and even sharks took the lives of many a diver. The communities back home got a cut on each catch in order to finance schools, so each yearly cruise was paramount for the whole island.That's really quite interesting. I knew about the prominence of the Dodecaneses' sponge industry, but I didn't know it was that large or that it reached as far as Cyrenaica.
We know for certain that there were cryptochristians in Crete... for the simple reason that many of them openly declared their allegiance in 1821 and joined the revolution. Most notable was perhaps the Kourmoulis clan, its head Michael Kourmoulis, ostensibly Hussein agha before the revolution, was in reality a member of the Frieds Society and became one of the Cretans generals during the war. Four of the family were canonized by the Church after being executed during the revolution.
Crete, Attica and the Peloponnese were the prime wine regions of the Greek Kingdom. Germans- especially those from Baden and Rhineland and Italians had a long tradition in modern wine making. It should be mentioned that the first modern winery in Greece - Achaia Clauss, was established by a Bavarian in 1861.Over time a few of the Sarántaenniarides would choose to leave Greece for other lands and other opportunities, but the vast majority would choose to stay with most settling in and around Athens, Crete, and the Peloponnese. A particularly large group of Germans, now known in posterity as the Morean Germans, would settle in the cities of Tripolitsa, Kalamata, and Sparta where they would manage to retain trace elements of their language and culture to this
Imagine that they will be re-absorbed into the Orthodox church,honestly aside from the greek Catholics following the pope they are in all other matters Orthodox(at least from my understanding,dont know the influence the catholics had on the Ukrainian greek catholic church)
I'm not very knowledgeable on the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, but they will most likely be absorbed into the Orthodox Church as @Bloodmage suggests.Imagine that they will be re-absorbed into the Orthodox church,honestly aside from the greek Catholics following the pope they are in all other matters Orthodox(at least from my understanding,dont know the influence the catholics had on the Ukrainian greek catholic church)
Right now.When will the Next update be published ?