I actually think the Germans would think this is a good thing. They "know" they can beat France anyway - and they also only really associate socialism with being anti-war (if there was ever a peacenik faction in the pre-WWI Third Republic, it was the socialists) so they'd probably think a socialist France would be even less of a threat.

A good point, but in letting the revolution succeed Germany would also indirectly empower the large socialist demographic within their empire - a notion I imagine the Junkers and Kaiser wouldn't be thrilled by. If any kind of leftist crackdown is initiated in the future, thousands of German socialists could just relocate to Red France before popping up from another corner of the empire when the arrest wave stops.

Also, I suspect the French socialist will not stay anti-war for long - the revolution has be spread after all. Red France would begin to export the revolution across Europe and be a general pain in the butt for Germany and their puppet states. I can see Germany being lazy and not nipping the revolt in the bud early, but eventually there will be many loud voices advocating for a military intervention.
 
A good point, but in letting the revolution succeed Germany would also indirectly empower the large socialist demographic within their empire - a notion I imagine the Junkers and Kaiser wouldn't be thrilled by. If any kind of leftist crackdown is initiated in the future, thousands of German socialists could just relocate to Red France before popping up from another corner of the empire when the arrest wave stops.

Also, I suspect the French socialist will not stay anti-war for long - the revolution has be spread after all. Red France would begin to export the revolution across Europe and be a general pain in the butt for Germany and their puppet states. I can see Germany being lazy and not nipping the revolt in the bud early, but eventually there will be many loud voices advocating for a military intervention.
Oh, I agree, the Germans won't be thrilled, but they may actually see France as a great place to chuck all their socialists, and I think that the Germans don't have any experience with socialists wanting to "spread the revolution" yet, so they aren't going to realize that's going to be on Red France's to-do list
 
Oh, I agree, the Germans won't be thrilled, but they may actually see France as a great place to chuck all their socialists, and I think that the Germans don't have any experience with socialists wanting to "spread the revolution" yet, so they aren't going to realize that's going to be on Red France's to-do list
A possibility...
 
So France is Red ITTL. I personally would've imagined they go the Weimar Republic route before collapsing during a potential analouge of the Great Depression and then going either far left or far right. But this works too. Keep it up.
 
So France is Red ITTL. I personally would've imagined they go the Weimar Republic route before collapsing during a potential analouge of the Great Depression and then going either far left or far right. But this works too. Keep it up.
Not detracting from this story any I love how it is being told but I've seen that often France (and most times Britain) end up red. I don't know why but there is a pattern.
 
A few thoughts, Germany may be to busy with focusing on the Danubian Civil War to really focus on the 2nd French Revolution. The losing side may also flee into the German controlled territories and Germany may be happy setting up the losers in that region as a client state. Another aspect is the Franch colonial remnant and what will happen to it?

Edit: I was thinking if France goes red the Whites may set up shop in Champagne as a German client state, the French colonial empire may then be split with Algeria being set up as Italian protectorate (with the Pied Noir in charges and likely a large influx of French refugees) while Germany annex the rest of French West Africa, I’m not sure what would happen Madagascar; Germany taking it, Belgium (for the sake of irony), UK or independence.
 
Last edited:
Hmm... Are we sure that “Vive le Sorélianisme!” is exactly the same as "France goes Red" in TTL?

Nice chapter by the way!

Edit - Looks like France is not the one selling weapons to Mexico...
 
Hmm... Are we sure that “Vive le Sorélianisme!” is exactly the same as "France goes Red" in TTL?

Nice chapter by the way!

Edit - Looks like France is not the one selling weapons to Mexico...
Thanks very much!
Sorelianism...well, it's complicated. The man will have a number of different people urging him to go different ways. His regime and, say, Lenin's OTL one will have a number of ideological differences- not all far-left regimes are created equal, of course.
Nope, France isn't selling weapons to Mexico.
Not detracting from this story any I love how it is being told but I've seen that often France (and most times Britain) end up red. I don't know why but there is a pattern.
I know that that's how it happens in Kaiserreich, but my including a Red France in this TL wasn't meant to parallel that... I think there are a reasonable number of factors which make Red France plausible here on its own merits. Rest assured, I won't have a Union of Britain, or a Syndicalist Oswald Mosley (how does that one work?)

A few thoughts, Germany may be to busy with focusing on the Danubian Civil War to really focus on the 2nd French Revolution. The losing side may also flee into the German controlled territories and Germany may be happy setting up the losers in that region as a client state. Another aspect is the Franch colonial remnant and what will happen to it?

Edit: I was thinking if France goes red the Whites may set up shop in Champagne as a German client state, the French colonial empire may then be split with Algeria being set up as Italian protectorate (with the Pied Noir in charges and likely a large influx of French refugees) while Germany annex the rest of French West Africa, I’m not sure what would happen Madagascar; Germany taking it, Belgium (for the sake of irony), UK or independence.

Agreed; Germany's too busy with Danubia to worry about France... as @Kylia mentioned, they view the French left as antiwar, and much less of a threat than a reactionary dictatorship would be.
France's colonies... ah, yes... I have plans. I'll say no more!
 
Agreed; Germany's too busy with Danubia to worry about France... as @Kylia mentioned, they view the French left as antiwar, and much less of a threat than a reactionary dictatorship would be.
France's colonies... ah, yes... I have plans. I'll say no more!

If Germany truly see the French left as anti-War, they could potential throw it a bone if it gained power by cutting the reparation and maybe even give France some of the occupied territory back, and maybe try to make agreement with the new French government for greater cooperation. This may seem unlikely but Greece and Turkey did become more friendly in the Interbellum after their war. So that could be a interesting take that Germany decides to reward a French government which is being seen as anti-War.
 
If Germany truly see the French left as anti-War, they could potential throw it a bone if it gained power by cutting the reparation and maybe even give France some of the occupied territory back, and maybe try to make agreement with the new French government for greater cooperation. This may seem unlikely but Greece and Turkey did become more friendly in the Interbellum after their war. So that could be a interesting take that Germany decides to reward a French government which is being seen as anti-War.
A very interesting possibility. Anarchy on one's western border is never a good thing, after all. Thanks for mentioning that... I'll put my head together and have a think...
 
If Germany truly see the French left as anti-War, they could potential throw it a bone if it gained power by cutting the reparation and maybe even give France some of the occupied territory back, and maybe try to make agreement with the new French government for greater cooperation. This may seem unlikely but Greece and Turkey did become more friendly in the Interbellum after their war. So that could be a interesting take that Germany decides to reward a French government which is being seen as anti-War.
That would be widely seen as giving legitimacy to the new regime, which could be either a good or a bad thing depending on the circumstances. The question is whether Germany would view it as advantageous to stabilize an "anti-war" France or just let it continue to be roiled by constant civil conflict and thus also remain impotent to threaten German hegemony. There are pros and cons to either option which they would have to consider.
 
I can see a renegotiation of France's financial contributions to the victors, and even an early end to the occupation, ala the Dawes Plan. It would allow German to fully demobilize her army, and free up more funds and manpower that can be allocated towards building up Mitteleuropa. It'd also help Germany's overseas reputation, strengthening ties with America, and maybe even starting rapprochement with Britain if past implications about a naval conference in the future bear fruit.
 
Does France have any colonies left? Not necessarily to offer to Germany in lieu of reparations, but to sell some to say the US or Japan and then use that money.
 
Does France have any colonies left? Not necessarily to offer to Germany in lieu of reparations, but to sell some to say the US or Japan and then use that money.

Neither the Japanese nor the Americans would be interested in France's African colonies. French Guyana though would interest America, and both Japan and the USA would love to get their hands on France's South Pacific holdings...as would the ANZACs, of course.
 
Neither the Japanese nor the Americans would be interested in France's African colonies. French Guyana though would interest America, and both Japan and the USA would love to get their hands on France's South Pacific holdings...as would the ANZACs, of course.

Assuming France is in the mood to sell off their colonies...

Agree completely about the French pacific islands.

Italy would want Mali and Niger as they would see it as a extension of their Libyan conquest. On top of that, some kind of arrangement with Algeria would also gain their curiosity. For the sake of pride I could also see Italy wanting French Guiana just so they can claim to have a colony in the New World but the US would definitely "outbid" them for the territory. Maybe the French islands in the Caribbean? Not very likely but America might let them get away with that.

New claims in West Africa would be interesting to either Germany or Britain. Italy would also be interesting in claiming a colony in the region just so they can have something in Africa that's not covered desert sand for once.

As for Madagascar? A lot of options here. Britain or Germany could also buy it. Even though Italy would probably want it, I think the Italian navy is already overstretched as is and would have their hands full trying to tame the hypothetical new colonies in Mali and Niger to deal with the Malagasy resistance. While I agree that Japan would have almost no interest in getting involved here, Madagascar is the only area in Africa that I could see the Japanese Empire having even a bit of a chance claiming as their sole African colony - just so they can further their claim of being a true great power. They could reinstall the Merina dynasty and encourage the island kingdom to join the Co-prosperity sphere as their main nexus into the African market.

Like I said, very unlikely but still a possibility, albeit a remote one.
 
Assuming France is in the mood to sell off their colonies...

Madagascar is the only area in Africa that I could see the Japanese Empire having even a bit of a chance claiming as their sole African colony - just so they can further their claim of being a true great power. They could reinstall the Merina dynasty and encourage the island kingdom to join the Co-prosperity sphere as their main nexus into the African market.

Like I said, very unlikely but still a possibility, albeit a remote one.

If the Japanese couldn't influence Madagascar at the height of their power in 1942, I can't see them doing it in 1917-1918.
And to be honest, I doubt the French would sell off yet more territory- it would be a loss of prestige.
 
If there's any place in Africa that might get more than passing notice from Japan, it's Ethiopia. And even then, it's less that Japan would want to colonize it, as much as they'd want to partner with the Solomonic Dynasty in modernizing the country. IOTL, there were even plans for a dynastic marriage between one of Haile Selassie's sons and a Japanese noblewoman, only for those plans to come crashing down with the Italian invasion. And even with the growing alignment between what would later become the Axis, it caused quite the diplomatic stink between Imperial Japan and Fascist Italy.
 
Top