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Hmm...I'm not really sure Britain would agree to let France suffer Versailles-like military limitations like what seem to be implied by the chapter. While they had to concede overall continental hegemony to Germany, as shown by the lenient armistice terms between Germany and Britain, von Bethmann-Hollweg's private meeting with Lloyd-George, and Germany not demanding any reparations or even territory from Britain, Britain still has pull. At the very least, they'll want to keep France as a road bump in case there's a need for one in the future against Germany.

Unless of course, the lack of heavy weaponry was simply the result of France unable to afford replacing them, as IIRC the armistice terms between France and Germany involved surrendering stocks of such weapons to the latter (and to Italy).
 
Hmm...I'm not really sure Britain would agree to let France suffer Versailles-like military limitations like what seem to be implied by the chapter. While they had to concede overall continental hegemony to Germany, as shown by the lenient armistice terms between Germany and Britain, von Bethmann-Hollweg's private meeting with Lloyd-George, and Germany not demanding any reparations or even territory from Britain, Britain still has pull. At the very least, they'll want to keep France as a road bump in case there's a need for one in the future against Germany.

Unless of course, the lack of heavy weaponry was simply the result of France unable to afford replacing them, as IIRC the armistice terms between France and Germany involved surrendering stocks of such weapons to the latter (and to Italy).

Britain was willing to throw France more or less under the bus in exchange for lenient treatment and preservation of a few key interests (ie, no direct German control over the Channel ports). However, the Springtime Mutinies crippled France's army to such an extent that these regulations only de jure confirmed what was already the case de facto- that the French Army was torn apart. No sense in Britain trying to undo what it can't change.
Although France is so broke right now, it probably couldn't afford new gear anyhow...

Speaking of Tankies what is the status of the tank or a tank like weapon in this timeline?

Tank development will be rather delayed ITTL. The Germans are focussing on Sturmtruppen and those tactics will be much better developed than in our world's. Mechanised infantry will probably become a thing a few years ahead of schedule... but the thing is, the Germans just aren't that interested in armour right now. The Wotan will probably come out in 1920 or so, as there's no wartime impetus to innovate. Basil Hart won't be writing his famous book ITTL, so that'll really delay any Blitzkrieg-style tactics and development.

Storm troopers are this world's "big thing".
 
Tank development will be rather delayed ITTL. The Germans are focussing on Sturmtruppen and those tactics will be much better developed than in our world's. Mechanised infantry will probably become a thing a few years ahead of schedule... but the thing is, the Germans just aren't that interested in armour right now. The Wotan will probably come out in 1920 or so, as there's no wartime impetus to innovate. Basil Hart won't be writing his famous book ITTL, so that'll really delay any Blitzkrieg-style tactics and development.

Storm troopers are this world's "big thing".
I'm not so sure about that. If Britain is going to go at it with Germany again - and I seriously doubt anyone in Whitehall expects anything less, in the medium to long term - then they need an edge that will let them both avoid the grinding manpower attrition of trench combat and counter German Sturmtruppen tactics. And armor can be that edge. ITTL as in OTL Britain is the world leader in armored vehicle development, and I can see them investing heavily in both armor and the tactics to use them throughout the 1920s.

That said, styles make fights, and the Germans focusing on mechanized assault infantry while the Brits go for a more armor-heavy approach would make for a heck of an interesting fight.
 
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Britain was willing to throw France more or less under the bus in exchange for lenient treatment and preservation of a few key interests (ie, no direct German control over the Channel ports). However, the Springtime Mutinies crippled France's army to such an extent that these regulations only de jure confirmed what was already the case de facto- that the French Army was torn apart. No sense in Britain trying to undo what it can't change.
Although France is so broke right now, it probably couldn't afford new gear anyhow...



Tank development will be rather delayed ITTL. The Germans are focussing on Sturmtruppen and those tactics will be much better developed than in our world's. Mechanised infantry will probably become a thing a few years ahead of schedule... but the thing is, the Germans just aren't that interested in armour right now. The Wotan will probably come out in 1920 or so, as there's no wartime impetus to innovate. Basil Hart won't be writing his famous book ITTL, so that'll really delay any Blitzkrieg-style tactics and development.

Storm troopers are this world's "big thing".

I do not that will last long things like tanks and machine guns will make such infantry tactics suicidal.
 
I'm not so sure about that. If Britain is going to go at it with Germany again - and I seriously doubt anyone in Whitehall expects anything less, in the medium to long term - then they need an edge that will let them both avoid the grinding manpower attrition of trench combat and counter German Sturmtruppen tactics. And armor can be that edge. ITTL as in OTL Britain is the world leader in armored vehicle development, and I can see them investing heavily in both armor and the tactics to use them throughout the 1920s.
Perhaps I ought to correct that. Right now, as of 1917-1918, tanks aren't really a thing, and the Germans won't be interested right now.
That doesn't mean the British won't take an interest in developing them, but the UK is going to take a lot of knocks in the next few decades.
 
Perhaps I ought to correct that. Right now, as of 1917-1918, tanks aren't really a thing, and the Germans won't be interested right now.
That doesn't mean the British won't take an interest in developing them, but the UK is going to take a lot of knocks in the next few decades.
Point. As I said in my edit, I like the Germans taking a somewhat different path. It makes sense and as the victors they have less incentive to innovate.

And ouch, I'm sorry to hear about the Brits.
 
Tanks/Landships/Barrels are, IMVHO, an idea who's time has come; someone will build some and experiment with them.
The French revolution could result in someone slapping some steel on a tracked tractor and adding a machine gun or small cannon.
The restrictions on the French are going to be strained since the country is in war...they'll certainly recruit more men.
 
Tanks/Landships/Barrels are, IMVHO, an idea who's time has come; someone will build some and experiment with them.
Agreed, they'll be in Place In the Sun, but on a different schedule to OTL.

The French revolution could result in someone slapping some steel on a tracked tractor and adding a machine gun or small cannon.
An interesting idea, thanks for that...

The restrictions on the French are going to be strained since the country is in war...they'll certainly recruit more men.

Unofficially, yes.
If they make too much noise, however, they'll have an angry Kaiser Wilhelm II putting a stop to such nonsense...
 
Unofficially, yes.
If they make too much noise, however, they'll have an angry Kaiser Wilhelm II putting a stop to such nonsense...
Troops dealing with criminals can perhaps be classified as "police." The Kaiser won't want a heavily armed France, but one in a civil war, complete with reighn of terror, is also not desirable.
And some can be officially recruited. The ones that are dead or in rebellion are casualties, so they can be replaced...
Are rockets prohibitted under the treaty? No V-2's, but katushkas are nice and simple.
 
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Tank development will be interesting ITTL.
Personally though, I'm more interested in how the German navy will develop with an intact High Seas Fleet.
IIRC, British sea plane carriers during WW1 were able to destroy a couple of Zeppelin sheds, so the idea of the aircraft carrier already has some merit, so i would expect Germany to start taking some interest
 
Troops dealing with criminals can perhaps be classified as "police." The Kaiser won't want a heavily armed France, but one in a civil war, complete with reighn of terror, is also not desirable.
And some officially. The ones that are dead or in rebellion are casualties, so they can be replaced...
Are rockets prohibitted under the treaty? No V-2's, but katushkas are nice and simple.
Actually, no- no rocket prohibition. They weren't really worth banning in 1916 because, well, there weren't too many of them in action...
 
Also, whatever's going to happen to the UK, i sure as hell hope the Irish find a way out of it

I'm really curious to know what's going on in the UK and how they will go down their humiliation conga that the OP hinted at many times. I imagine that Ireland will unfortunately get dragged into the UK's messes whether they want it or not.
 
Boneheaded_Bookkeeper said:
One key difference between Russia going Red (like in OTL) and France going Red is that I see nothing stopping Germany and even Italy from staging a intervention to remove the communist from power if the revolution is successful. France is a shadow of its former self and doesn't have the manpower or equipment to stop Germany from reentering the nation to defeat the communist and place a puppet leader in charge and announcing the creation of the French Fourth Republic. Very different situation from OTL.

Granted, Germany is still very much weakened from the Great War and currently has most of its military controlling the situation in Africa and in Eastern Europe, but I don't think it would take much to topple this France and Germany would never tolerate having a far-left state in its borders. Same goes for Italy and maybe other nations like Spain or even Britain.
I actually think the Germans would think this is a good thing. They "know" they can beat France anyway - and they also only really associate socialism with being anti-war (if there was ever a peacenik faction in the pre-WWI Third Republic, it was the socialists) so they'd probably think a socialist france would be even less of a threat.
 
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