No GNW (or “Peter goes South”)

I want an Alliance with the British, post WW1 I'd transfer the alliance to the USA as soon as they could. That means uninterrupted trade, there is little that the others can offer Russia needs. So count me in the objections list.

Why should there be WWI at all? And, if anything, OTL WWI demonstrated that Britain and France had been terrible allies to the RE. So I’ll try to avoid the major OTL disaster (and you can curb your bloodthirstiness 😜).

Anyway, as an ally Britain can offer nothing that can’t be provided by the normal economic relations (tea, rubber (*), some shipbuilding) while creating a lot of the dangerous obligations. ITTL, in an absence of AH as an aggravating factor, Russia has no quarrels with Germany (except for the short term tariff issue) and, unless Britain manages to mess things on the Far East (which I’m trying to avoid), with Britain as well.

Why there is a need of alliance with the US, I can’t figure out. Alliance against whom? Two countries have very few mutual or seriously contradicting interests (except for the grain trade) and normal economic relations would suffice.
_______
(*) I already mentioned that synthetic rubber will appear ahead of the schedule.
In terms of Shipbuilding, I hope Russia can dither for a while until around OTL 1905 level of tech, then build oil fed 20,000 tonne Battleships and 15-17,000 tonne BCs. Not too many, but just enough.
I’m tempted to go ahead of the schedule even if not on the same scale. After all, in OTL “all big guns” idea was around in 1902-03 (Cuniberti published his article in 1903) for the ships under 20,000 tons and the long-distance battle of the Yellow Sea had been fought by the ships mostly built in 1890s.
Well, pretty much everybody got stuck with the old ships after Dreadnought had been built, C’est la vie.
 
and you can curb your bloodthirstiness 😜
Dang
Why there is a need of alliance with the US
Its the law of the forum, you must be an american ally!
Alliance against whom?
Russia obviously
Two countries have very few mutual or seriously contradicting interests
What a shocker that a country as deep into Eurasia as you can get and a North American Empire( :p ) would hardly have anything in common
 
Dang

Its the law of the forum, you must be an american ally!
“American” as in “any country in the Americas”? Would Brazil suffice? 😜

Russia obviously
Russia allied against Russia… Actually, the idea has an enormous potential. In practical terms this means being a member of two opposing military alliances. This would be a tricky political combination keeping the whole “civilized world” confused to a degree which could prevent WWI and all that followed. Or at least Russia may not participate in the general butchery by declaring that one half of its armed forces will start fighting another part as soon as a proper administrative work is completed regarding supplies to which each half is entitled to. You guys, may start without us and we’ll join each of you as soon as paperwork is completed. 😂
What a shocker that a country as deep into Eurasia as you can get and a North American Empire( :p ) would hardly have anything in common
At a risk of getting out of the group charter, I’ll risk to notice that for quite a few people it is still a shocker. 😂
 
Would Brazil suffice? 😜
I hope so!
We can supply you with feijoada?
Russia allied against Russia
So most of russian history
Or at least Russia may not participate in the general butchery by declaring that one half of its armed forces will start fighting another part as soon as a proper administrative work is completed regarding supplies to which each half is entitled to. You guys, may start without us and we’ll join each of you as soon as paperwork is completed. 😂
The civil war but we gotta finish the paperwork first
 
I hope so!
We can supply you with feijoada?

So most of russian history

The civil war but we gotta finish the paperwork first
Not the “civil war”, just the military activities within the same regime based upon the mutually contradicting international obligations. A political component is absent and civilians are not involved (except for obvious participation in the production and supply activities).

Obviously, both sides are acting under directives from the same government but, to do things properly, the military/naval ministries (and the general staffs of army and navy) and of the foreign affairs must have special departments, one for each side of a conflict, handling diplomatic and military activities of a corresponding side. Their activities are being supervised and mediated by the mediation departments of the corresponding ministries with the decisions eventually approved on a ministry level being presented to the Council of the Ministers and, if approved, send to the Duma for the discussion and authorization of the funds, then sent to the Council of State for discussion and approval and then to the Emperor for a final approval.
Each of these stages may include numerous iterations. This, of course, takes some time but, after all, this is a modern war and RE is a civilized country in which the issues of the wartime manufacturing, supplies and logistics in general can’t be resolved by a primitive raiding and looting. Everything must work properly and the interests of the civilian population should not be neglected either, so the general staffs must plan operations on the territories where the fighting will produce a minimal damage to the economy and noncombatants. The most obvious theater of war is to be to the north of the Polar Circle, which creates serious logistical problems (will the allies pay for construction of the necessary railroads and purchase of few big ice breakers?) and a need to supply the troops with the adequate warm clothes, etc.

Even with all paperwork being done and the funds approved, which may take years for the task of such a complexity), the physical preparations (see above) will need a prolonged effort.

To think about it, splitting the navy is going to be a real hell, taking into an account the tendency to build the ships which are not fully identical. Can you imagine an effort needed for a completely equal split?

And just think about all excitement of the espionage and counter-espionage between the departments of the ministry of war and complexity of the diplomatic service in the neutral countries.

And all this is absolute necessary if RE wants honestly follow its obligations without favoring any side…
😜
 
But something has to be done about Nicky’s character: AIII is not getting younger.

Well there's always a method of changing his character but that's boring.

Honestly just controlling Nicky's temper a little and when and where he decides to intervene should keep Witte in line while also allowing Witte to run things where he can.

Otherwise Russia is in quite different international position with quite a bit more prestige and in lot better position which should make Nicky's actions quite different than otl.

Regarding Germanys naval build up, otl it ended not only due to the British but also due to the fact that Germany was surrounded by Russia and France and was forced to invest more in land army, a nice demonstration of friendship from Russia could convince Willy and any nay sayer and that there's no pressing threat from the land. And hey, this could be done during Nicky's reign with that proposed Polish plan from me, with Germany taking chunk of Poland in exchange for formally resolving potential terrorial disputes in the east and potentially later in the west thus leaving it free to pursue its rivalry with the Brits.

As for Nicky, you could have him feel like he is brining peace to Europe and serve as a mediator for potential conflicts, any potential adventurers could be directed far away to support for Ethiopia.
 
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Well there's always a method of changing his character but that's boring.

Honestly just controlling Nicky's temper a little and when and where he decides to intervene should keep Witte in line while also allowing Witte to run things where he can.

Don’t idealize Witte: he was one of the greatest Russian statesmen but he had his limitations and his decisions sometimes produced disastrous results as was the case with the re-orientation toward China ( of course, it can be argued that eventually he was protesting against things getting too far but he started them and policy of a “peaceful penetration” was his) . What was equally bad, he was stubborn, as was for example in the case of him protesting against construction of a bridge across the Amur after the RJW.

So this is rather complicated in the terms of keeping him in line because Nicky is not competent in anything, unlike his father, does not possess to much in the terms of a common sense and meaningful ideology and tends to be influenced, quite often by the wring people.
Otherwise Russia is in quite different international position with quite a bit more prestige and in lot better position which should make Nicky's actions quite different than otl.
Yes, and this somewhat decreases Nicky’s window of opportunity for screwing things up.

Regarding Germanys naval build up, otl it ended not only due to the British but also due to the fact that Germany was surrounded by Russia and France and was forced to invest more in land army, a nice demonstration of friendship from Russia could convince Willy and any nay sayer and that there's no pressing threat from the land.

More than that, the Baltic Sea is secured and he can fully concentrate on playing with his favorite toys, the ships. My impression was that the whole thing was mostly for the process itself, not for going into a real naval war with Britain. Of course, on that I can be wrong (but not ITTL 😂).

BTW, IIRC ITTL I married Nicky on Wilhelm’s sister to strengthen Russian-German alliance.
And hey, this could be done during Nicky's reign with that proposed Polish plan from me, with Germany taking chunk of Poland in exchange for formally resolving potential terrorial disputes in the east and potentially later in the west thus leaving it free to pursue its rivalry with the Brits.
But Germany does not have any territorial or other conflict on the west and I’m not sure that within ITTL framework even annexation of a Polish territory makes too much of a practical sense. What for? Poland is not in a position to say “no” to anything that Germany, Russia or Sweden is saying so why bother?

As for Nicky, you could have him feel like he is brining peace to Europe and serve as a mediator for potential conflicts, any potential adventurers could be directed far away to support for Ethiopia.
Actually, in OTL Nicky came with an initiative regarding limitations on the armaments so there was some common sense in him and this can be used as a base.
 
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What for? Poland is not in a position to say “no” to anything that Germany, Russia or Sweden is saying so why bother?
Original idea was for Germany do formally give up any claims on HRE lands in exchange for some minor compensation. Plus it would be a good ground for Baltic congress.
 
Why should there be WWI at all? And, if anything, OTL WWI demonstrated that Britain and France had been terrible allies to the RE. So I’ll try to avoid the major OTL disaster (and you can curb your bloodthirstiness 😜).
Because OTL all nations were gunning for a fight, almost any reason would do. There is still the pressure of their Arms race, plus the conflicting trade interests.

Anyway, as an ally Britain can offer nothing that can’t be provided by the normal economic relations (tea, rubber (*), some shipbuilding) while creating a lot of the dangerous obligations. ITTL, in an absence of AH as an aggravating factor, Russia has no quarrels with Germany (except for the short term tariff issue) and, unless Britain manages to mess things on the Far East (which I’m trying to avoid), with Britain as well.
Britian is still the maritine top dog, impacting almost all major trade - except for the trade done by Railways. ITL the balance might be different for Russia, since there is much more rail capacity much earlier. But my thinking was in line of international trade.

Why there is a need of alliance with the US, I can’t figure out. Alliance against whom? Two countries have very few mutual or seriously contradicting interests (except for the grain trade) and normal economic relations would suffice
It's the benefit of hindsight, the USA has still all the opportunities of OTL to become the big dog. Having a mutual trust and what games call a non-agression pact works. The USA's navy and trade power is a great vehicle for continued growth of the Russian economy.
I’m tempted to go ahead of the schedule even if not on the same scale. After all, in OTL “all big guns” idea was around in 1902-03 (Cuniberti published his article in 1903) for the ships under 20,000 tons and the long-distance battle of the Yellow Sea had been fought by the ships mostly built in 1890s.
Well, pretty much everybody got stuck with the old ships after Dreadnought had been built, C’est la vie.
Would be saving a craptonne of wasted resources on obsolete ships at launch.
 
Because OTL all nations were gunning for a fight, almost any reason would do. There is still the pressure of their Arms race, plus the conflicting trade interests.
But this is not OTL and Franco-German animosity and a wish of a revenge are absent. Ditto for the Russian-AH conflict of the interests on the Balkans and a powder keg of the Balkan states. So what’s left is the OTL conflict of British and German trade interests, which Britain in OTL was slowly but steadily losing but ITTL situation is more complicated because Germany is lacking a part of the industrial territory, France has this territory plus Belgium and Russia is more developed. So the continental Europe is more balanced economically but also less conflicting which deprives Britain of the big potential allies.
Ditto for the arms race: less is being spent on the armies and more on the navies.

Britian is still the maritine top dog, impacting almost all major trade - except for the trade done by Railways. ITL the balance might be different for Russia, since there is much more rail capacity much earlier. But my thinking was in line of international trade.
This is not a reason for military alliance with Britain or even for a free trade paradigm. Having normal trade relations would be enough. After all, to be an important maritime top dog, Britain has to carry goods to and from continental Europe so the interest is mutual and the same goes for the investments.
It's the benefit of hindsight, the USA has still all the opportunities of OTL to become the big dog.

Yes. So what? The mutual interests are purely economic, which does not require a political alliances, just trade treaties.
Having a mutual trust and what games call a non-agression pact works.
Absence of the conflicting territorial interests and common borders pretty much guarantee non-agression. Mutual trust, as far as the imperial Russia is concerned is rather difficult because every 4 years other side is subject to the potential wild swings in its foreign policy: in OTL the US was supporting Japan against Russia to a noticeable degree due to the public opinion and then changed its stance due to the changed public opinion.

OTOH, the US of the late XIX also does not need a close political alignment with RE and even with the lesser US exposure to the Pacific and more restrained Russian Far East policy, their interests in the region do not necessarily coincide.

The USA's navy and trade power is a great vehicle for continued growth of the Russian economy.

Two countries had little to sell to each other in pre-wwi OTL and even less so ITTL so the economic relations can be friendly, within the reasonable limits, but that’s it.
Would be saving a craptonne of wasted resources on obsolete ships at launch.
Well, the shipbuilding industry was busy.
 
But this is not OTL and Franco-German animosity and a wish of a revenge are absent. Ditto for the Russian-AH conflict of the interests on the Balkans and a powder keg of the Balkan states. So what’s left is the OTL conflict of British and German trade interests, which Britain in OTL was slowly but steadily losing but ITTL situation is more complicated because Germany is lacking a part of the industrial territory, France has this territory plus Belgium and Russia is more developed. So the continental Europe is more balanced economically but also less conflicting which deprives Britain of the big potential allies.
Ditto for the arms race: less is being spent on the armies and more on the navies.
The rivalry between France and Germany cannot be gone. In fact, I'd expect it to be more intense with lots of German speakers in French territories, and with a Germany that is still surpassing France (though without the Ruhr, are they?)

The fact Russia isn't getting involved in the Balkans might make it less muddled, but there still is Italy, AH and OE. Still enough national pride in stead of common sense. I really don't like war beyond the gadgets, but I'm not sure the war is easily avoided.
 
The rivalry between France and Germany cannot be gone. In fact, I'd expect it to be more intense with lots of German speakers in French territories,
So both of them must consolidate their efforts and attack Switzerland where there are numerous French and German speakers. 😜

This, reason, on its own, is not serious or even catastrophic (😜): there were plenty of the German speakers in the RE and they were fighting Germany during wwi just fine. Besides, the regions you are talking about are ITTL almost century part of France and population, even if it preserved the language, is thoroughly assimilated just was OTL case with Alsace. Or, who can be a much greater French patriot than Joan of Arc and she was from the very mixed border region.
and with a Germany that is still surpassing France (though without the Ruhr, are they?)
Does not matter as long as they don’t have a more substantial difference that industrial production. Unless, of course, you can demonstrate that their potential economic competition was in the existentially important areas, which is very unlikely.

The fact Russia isn't getting involved in the Balkans might make it less muddled, but there still is Italy, AH and OE.
I’m planning to deal with Austria and OE after will finally finish with the naval stuff, which so far took much more time and effort than expected (the same goes for the African stuff, China-Japan and other issues I was not even planning to touch until they were brought up).

As for Italy, who really cares unless it is attached to something much bigger and excessively bellicose?

Still enough national pride in stead of common sense. I really don't like war beyond the gadgets, but I'm not sure the war is easily avoided.
Avoidance is anything but easy because it requires the huge military expenses on all sides. But if this produces more or less even results, then the war becomes too risky to provide a good ROI.
 
Okay of all things from this thread I never expected German Joan to be one of them
She definitely considered herself French but in the area where she lived, French vs. German was a matter of one village vs. another. There was even a theory that she was not a peasant girl from that specific village because the village was on the German-speaking side. On this I can’t comment anything except that there should be no problem for the saints and archangels with whom she communicated to teach her any language.

Anyway, to stop the pointless arguing, here is an ultimate definition of who is and who is not French given in “The law is a law” (which means it is a legal definition):
- What if someone is born from Italian mother and unknown father?
- Then he is an Italian.
- But what if he was born on the French territory?
- In that case he is French!

Of course, this will hardly prevent you from making further smart comments but the law is a law and you should not argue with it. 😜 [1]

[1] In the original text: “it is a fact and the facts are similar to the women: you should not argue with them.” 😜😜
 
- What if someone is born from Italian mother and unknown father?
- Then he is an Italian.
- But what if he was born on the French territory?
- In that case he is French!
And thats how they got their Nappies!
[1] In the original text: “it is a fact and the facts are similar to the women: you should not argue with them.” 😜😜
Guess I shouldnt be one :O

Then again no one on the Internet is

To be or not to be a woman?
Well I've always prefered to be Wario
 
How to spend money #3
319. How to spend money #3
“I’m sure that in a fight which I started against routine in a naval construction, you, admirals and ship commanders will support me with your power, and authority”
Krylov’s speech in the Naval Ministry addressing commanders of the 2nd Pacific Squadron , 7 April 1904 [1]
“Combat training of ship crews suffers a lot from the desire to achieve perfect cleanliness.”
“A military man in any environment should be able to eat and sleep. It's also an art that needs to be brought up. What's the point that somebody doesn't close the eye with diligence for three nights; well, he’s no good after that. He's good who will be able to get enough sleep in any stressful situation.”
Where is the question of people's lives and deaths, so it's not time to count the pennies.”

Admiral S.O. Makarov.
Nothing good should be expected from the Ministry until you get rid of the s—t you are employing … and I’m talking not only about the civilian officials but about high-ranking military as well. They are all s—t.”
Admiral von Essen to the Naval Minister [2]
“What do people and society want? Very little - the power <...> reasonable, meeting the needs of the people, and the ability to live freely and let others live freely”
Grand Duke Alexander Michailovich, letter to Nicholas II​

Russian Navy of 1890s. State of the affairs.
Situation with the Russian Navy was rather confusing, to put it mildly, and in some aspects mutually contradictive.

On a negative side:
  • Thanks to the “leadership” of the former Admiral-General the shipbuilding policy was rather chaotic resulting in creation of a wide variety of the ships, some of them good, some not too much so and some bad, without a coherent system.
  • Even after position was abolished and the Naval Ministry got a real Minister instead of “Director”, the Ministry itself remained a monstrous mess of various departments and committees, both purely bureaucratic and technical, so as a result, everything tended to be moving slow and not necessarily in a right direction.
  • There was still a “social” gap between the naval officers and technical officers on the ships.
  • An additional layer of an complication were corresponding committees of the Duma, which more than once becoming a source of an amusement due to a complete incompetence and resulting lapses. [3]
On a positive side:
  • Finally, the German experience of a naval education was adopted and education of the naval constructors and mechanical engineers had been split into two different professions with the specialized schools established and the first graduates being ready by the late 1890s.
  • In the terms of the naval science Russia was well advanced. Krylov’s pioneering ‘Theory of oscillating motions of the ship’ won him a Gold Medal from the Royal Institution of Naval Architects, the first time the prize was awarded to a foreigner and this was just one of his works [4]. Vice-Admiral Makarov together with Krylov were working on floodability problem the results of this work soon became worldwide classic. [5]
1679457565522.png

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  • On a practical side, simultaneously with Vittorio Emilio Cuniberti Grand Duke Alexander Mikhailovich with the help of engineer Skvortsov presented in the late 1890s a project of all big guns battleship (16 203 mm guns in 8 2-gun turrets.
1679457671194.png


With the shipbuilding facilities being available on the Black, Baltic and White Seas and the funds allocated, now it is a time to decide what the new battleships and lesser ships should look like. Obviously, the main issue was the most expensive and complicated item, the battleships. With a prevailing “wisdom” being that the most powerful ship becomes obsolete by the time it is completed, the high brass from “under the spire” had been running in the circles until cynical Krylov “calmed” them with an assurance that any ship risks to become obsolete at the moment its construction starts because the next day some other country may come with a better design. So this issue being settled, the practical part could start.
The only available example being the recent Sino-Japanese war, its experience was used as a base for the analysis which had also to include what wasn’t there.
  • It became clear that an idea of packing ships with as many guns of all calibers as was physically possible is not effective: the “hail of fire” could produce a psychological effect but did little damage to the battleships even at the very short distances.
  • The modern big guns (absent on both sides of the conflict) could fire on much greater distances with a much higher rate than the main caliber guns available on the Chinese and Japanese side and on these distances the guns under 10” were almost absolutely useless.
  • The big guns could do very serious damage to the unprotected parts of the ships.
  • The minor calibers (from 75 mm and below), while having a high firing rate, proved to be inefficient against the destroyers.
  • The torpedo tubes on the battleships and even big cruisers proved to be useless.
  • In the terms of a tactical control formation line ahead proved to be much superior to the line abreast. Which meant that the main attention had to be paid to the strength of a side salvo.
  • Special attention had to be paid to developed of the brand new main caliber armor piercing shells with a powerful charge.
So the general outline was:
  • Fully armored and all steel (no armored plates hooked to the teak).
  • 12” 52 calibers guns in the turrets as main caliber and more than 4 total (which so far was a prevailed standard.
  • 120mm (4.”) guns as a defense against the destroyers.
  • No torpedo tubes.
To accommodate more than two 12” turrets the displacement was proposed between 16 and 18,000 tons with a speed over 18 knots. The major controversy was about the main caliber’s placement. A prevailing opinion was 2 gun turrets (3 guns were considered too innovative and complicated) but the argument was about their placement. There were two main schemas:
  1. 1 turret front, 1 back and 1 on each side. 8 guns
  2. 3 towers along the length. 6 guns
The 1st option provided equal 6 guns at any direction but in any position 2 guns will not be used. The 2nd option was good for a side salvo (all 6 guns deployed) and was better in the terms of the ship’s stability but worse in a frontal encounter (unless there is a line of the enemy ships allowing two more towers to fire at the angle. But the 2nd option was cheaper and the new battleships were expected to fight in a line ahead formation thus minimizing disadvantages and it was chosen.
The secondary armament were 16 120mm 50 calibers guns protected by the shields.

Placement of the central gun tower was causing problems with the initial idea of using big Belleville boilers but, upon Krylov’s recommendation, the smaller Yarrow boilers were installed saving space and providing more power. Additional space saving was achieved by adopting to oil. The sides were fully protected by KCA with a system where the outer armor would break up or at least slow shells down and burst immediately behind the outer armor and an inboard armor bulkhead would stop the splinters and shell fragments from reaching the vitals. The first ship had been constructed on the Baltic Works at St-Petersburg, artillery was made on the Obukhov plant and Zeiss optics bought in Germany. If everything goes well, it was planned to launch the next ships of the series simultaneously in St-Petersburg, Arkhangelsk and Nikolaev.

While all that excitement was going on, the Ministers of Navy had been changing at a high rate. The reason was simple: all they had a distinguished service record as the naval officers and then ship, squadron and fleet commanders but were not well adjusted to the much more complicated duties, not to mention willingness and ability to stir the pot. Finally, there was a suitable figure, vice-admiral Dikov, who earlier served as a chairman of the Technical Committee and a member of Admiralty-Council (responsible for the material part of the Navy).
1679458922895.jpeg

Unlike his predecessors he was very active:
  • Access to the Maritime Corps has been significantly expanded, previously only children of military sailors and hereditary nobles were accepted;
  • Temporary regulations on armed reserve vessels, rules on certification commissions in ports and issued a new regulation on service by naval officers, which divided into combat and coastal categories;
  • A classification of naval vessels was established with its division into "active", 1st and 2nd reserves;
  • The service life of vessels in the active fleet has been determined: for ships of the line and armored cruisers - 10 years, for cruisers and mine vessels - as long as their elements meet the requirements;
  • A regulation on the management of the plants of the maritime department was introduced, and Baltic shipyards were separated from the St. Petersburg port, and their management was based on commercial principles;
  • A regulation on the commanders of naval forces was issued and instruction on the management of naval units was published.
  • Ship engineers were renamed into officer ranks. This was very important closing the gap between them and the naval officers who tended to consider them an inferior life form.
  • A greater attention had been paid to the conditions of the naval crews.
  • Administrative reform of the Naval Ministry was started and vigorously conducted.
The main problem was that he openly disliked the Duma which was responding in kind.

In a meantime, the Grand Duke Alexander Mikhailovich was quite busy. Since 1898, he has been a member (then chairman) of the Merchant Shipping Council and than started advocating creation of the General Directorate of Merchant Shipping and Ports which had to be formed out of the units of the Ministry of Finance (Commercial Navigation Division, Merchant Shipping Council, Port Affairs Committee) and the Ministry of Railways (Department of Commercial Ports). When this happened, making him a member of the Ministers Committee, it immediately raised Witte’s hackles (who would like some bid departments being taken of one’s ministry?) and resistance of other ministers because, while being one of them, he was not their equal by protocol and, as a member if the imperial family, was legally irresponsible. Plus, this was a bad precedent. So the intrigues started…
1679461437274.png

Krylov, had time of his life: he advocated and got the testing pool in which he was playing with the ships’ models testing their behavior in the imitated waves and applying high mathematics and various devices of his own invention. A laboratory for testing the mechanical properties of materials is being created, including a device part for measuring the strength characteristics of ships. The pool is turning into the head center of Russia dealing with this problem.

Makarov, with the first big ice breaker that he designed (Yermak) being finally finished, sailed on it to the Franz-Joseph Land.
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More powerful icebreaker of the same type had been ordered in Britain.

Russian shipbuilding facilities.
  • The main navy construction area was St-Petersburg region. It included main Admiralty wharf and a number of the private wharves backed up by Obukhov Plant (artillery) and Putilov and smaller plants for all types of machinery. Armor was coming from the plants in Southern Russia.
  • Archangelsk had a smaller wharf with supplies coming from elsewhere.
  • Black Sea - Nikolaev had the main wharf and Sevastopol - repair and maintenance base. Artillery and armor were coming from industrial plants of the Southern Russia including Krupp’s Russian division. Machinery was coming mostly from the Volga-based industrial belt.
  • Far East - creation of the wharves started in Vladivostok and Nikolaevsk-on-Amur. On the initial stage they were supposed to act mostly as repair & maintenance facilities with a possibility to build small ships. Growing into something bigger will require experienced cadres and, as a minimum, more powerful metallurgy of the Khabarovsk and Trans Baykal region. All this was going to take years so for a while the task was limited to a practical minimum.
There was an idea, energetically supported by Makarov, to use the existing and arriving icebreakers for establishing a reliable Northern Passage from Arkhangelsk to Vladivostok, which would allow a secure and fast passage of the war- and commercial ships. Unfortunately, so far a single navigation route was not extending to the east of the Yenisei mouth.
1679463863628.png

Which was good for the merchant caravans but pretty much useless for the navy.


________
[1] He was officially reprimanded for the harsh criticism of the Chief Inspector of the Naval Construction and no measures had been taken. Is there a need to explain what happened later to the 2nd Pacific? As a side note, naval engineer of the battleship “Orel”, Kostenko (later a prominent figure in the Russian/Soviet naval construction), on his own initiative followed Krylov’s recommendations and at Tsushima the ship got at least the same amount of damages (at least 140 hits including 42 by 305 mm shells) as the sister-ships “Alexander III”, “Borodino” and “Suvorov” but, unlike them, did not sunk .
[2] Comment made during a meeting of the committee on reorganization of the Naval Ministry in 1908 or 1909 and von Essen meant most of those present. Being a battle commander with a good record and, by that time, commander of the Baltic Fleet, he was not shy to say what he thought to the faces of people about whom he was talking (and whom he was outranking 😉).
[3] In OTL this happened later. The Duma accused Naval Ministry is disclosing a state secret by publishing specifications of a 10 years old gun, construction of which was already widely known. Krylov, invited to testify, cited a long list of the really secret pieces of a naval information printed in Duma’s publications.
1679457748245.png

Furious Guchkov declared that they are not supposed to be the technical specialists and got an answer that in that case they should not make noises about the things they do not understood. It probably should come as no surprise that in the Provisional Government he was appointed Minister of the Navy to be replaced by even greater specialist, A.F.Kerensky.
[4] I’m not even trying to understand most of the things he was working on and reading his memoirs just added to confusion. For example, I have no idea about the meaning of “a theory of damping of ship rolling and pitching, and was the first to propose gyroscopic damping”. The only key words are “…which now is the most common way of damping the roll.”
[5] Again, almost no clue beyond the general notion that it is about preventing ship from doing “turn overkeel” after getting a hole underwater by flooding undamaged compartments on the other side. The wiki article brings “Titanic” as some kind of a (bad) example but, AFAIK, it did not have the lengthwise watertight walls so when it was cut along its length there was no “other side”. Anyway, probably nothing would save it with the cut that long.
 
“The Belt” #1
320. “The Belt” #1
Monaco's neutrality is one of our main attributes ..”
Albert II, Prince of Monaco
There are no conditions to which a man may not become accustomed, particularly if he sees that they are accepted by those about him.”
Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina
Of course as a small country you're not necessarily in the strongest negotiating position unless you're negotiating with other small countries.”
Helen Clark
Vienna is a city that was built around coffee shops.”
Bertold Brecht

1880s - 1890s. The “Belt Countries”

Of course, this was not an official definition but in practical terms there was something like a “belt” of the lesser powers stretching from (almost) the Baltic coast and all the way to the Meditteranean: Kingdom of Poland, Austrian Empire, Kingdom of Hungary and Ottoman Empire. Voluntarily, or just because the alternative would be dangerous, they were generally friendly to the Russian and German empires, which meant to the French Empire as well, to a degree in which it was relevant.

Poland.
Ruled by the Poniatovski dynasty the country was at peace for the decades mostly because none of its neighbors seriously wanted any piece of what remained of it. At some point Wilhelm II was contemplated a modest annexation to improve communication with the East Prussia but was persuaded by Russia and Sweden that it does not make sense to destroy status quo unless Poland does something provocative like establishing some ill-advised tariffs, creating problems with crossing its territory or some other stupidity. Wilhelm listened to the …er… “voices of reason” coming from abroad and from within Germany and agreed.

The reason for status quo support was quite pragmatic: to a great degree the textile, mining, metallurgic and banking industries of the kingdom was controlling by the Russian and German companies and banks and annexation could cause the bad feelings and perhaps even the excesses, which would have a negative impact on the smoothly running business while economic value of the territories in question was quite small.

In general, the kingdom was completely at the mercy of its stronger neighbors who, unfortunately for the kingdom, were allied to each other thus depriving the polish government of a space for the political maneuver. So the kingdom had to adopt the tariffs approved by the big neighbors and adopt the economic policies which benefitted them. Taking into an account that the country was predominantly agricultural and relatively poor, its value as an importer of the manufactured goods was limited but it remained a good investment area because, due to a permanent employment problem, the labor force was cheap and scared enough not to make noises, which made investments into the Polish industries industry profitable.

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Then, it was a second (after Russia) biggest importer of the agricultural products into Germany and Sweden and second (after Hungary) into Austria. Which, of course, was not problem free because in the agricultural area Germany was in a complicated situation: on one hand, the domestic agricultural production was no adequate for feeding the population while OTOH agricultural sector was dominated by the major Prussian landowners who did not want a cheap grain imports because they’d hurt them both economically and politically. Russian Empire had a short-term “tariff war” with Germany over this issue which was settled by the mutual adjustments of the tariffs on a wide variety of items. This was much more difficult for Poland due to an absence of any serious leverage. Somewhat better situation was in the kerosine exports from Galicia to Austria: this Poland, being a regional monopolist, could negotiate on the equal terms. As a result, the government was getting a considerable revenue that allowed financing of various projects. Lwow region was prospering (as in the oil companies, speculators and those in the “service and entertainment industry”) but this did not change overall situation too much.

The country remained predominantly agrarian: more than 75% of its population lived in the villages. 20% of agricultural land belonged to 1,964 latifundias with an area of over 1,000 hectares each (an average of 1,629 hectares), and 25% to 16,952 landlord farms with an area of 100 to 1,000 hectares (an average of 236 hectares). Together, these two groups, which accounted for only 0.58% of the total number of farms, had 45% of agricultural land. At the other end of a spectrum were 3,129 farms (96.72% of the total) with less than 20 hectares (an average of 2.3 hectares), which in total amounted to only 45.4% of agricultural land. That is, if we add to this numerous masses of landless peasants - a huge land shortage prevailed.
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In the practical terms, while the big estates were a source of export, the “village” was “just a modest addition to a city market” [1]. In other words, the wealth had been almost exclusively accumulating at the top level and hardly even trickling down: it was a common practice in the peasants’ households to split the matches to save money.

On a regular basis country was suffering from the financial, industrial and agricultural crisises so its level of the industrial production was not growing and agriculture had its share of the near-catastrophic or catastrophic situations like the bad harvests (starvation of the poorest peasants) or good harvests (falling grain prices meant loss of the income by the landowners and cutting of the employment). The structure of employment in industry continued to be dominated by the textile industry, metalworking, mining, and food industries. However, there were also some newly-created industries: armaments production and locomotive construction. Another successfully developing area was railroad construction: by the late 1890s more than 1,000 km of the railroads had been constructed allowing the kingdom to get some income from the transit of goods between Germany and Russia.

There was a steady flow of emigration, mostly to the US and Mexico (President Diaz was somewhat obsessed with the RR construction), that kept unemployment on “acceptable” level between 400,000 and 1,000,000 unemployed in the urban areas [2] while in the rural areas the numbers were higher.

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On a positive side, an absence to the sea access had been saving big amounts of money on not building a navy. As a result, the kingdom could even afford a descent sized army with the reasonably modern weapons and cute headgear. Nobody could tell for sure against whom it is supposed to fight but there were no doubts that a self-respecting country must have an army so here you go.
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Warsaw flourished. Under Mayor Sokrates Starynkiewicz (1875–92) it got its first water and sewer system as well as the expansion and modernisation of trams, street lighting, and gas infrastructure. Between 1850 and 1882, the population grew by 134% to 383,000 as many peasants migrated from surrounding rural Masovian towns and villages to the city for employment opportunities: a number of metallurgical, textile and glassware factories and been built there so by 1897 population grew to 626,000. Life was good. For those who had money. Which was a big problem because a majority dud not. 43% of the population lived in one-room dwellings (36.5% urban and 51.5% rural), with 2.3 people per room in cities and 4.8 people in the village. 36% of the population lived in two-room dwellings (2.3 people per room in cities, 2.7 people in the village). Only 21% of the population lived in three-room and more apartments, on average per room in cities - 1.3 people, in the village - 1.6 people.



Austrian Empire.
International position of the Austrian Empire was somewhat peculiar: it was treated with a much higher respect than its economic or military power should warrant because, however you put it, the Hapsburg empire was the oldest European empire and the Hapsburgs were by far the oldest imperial dynasty [3] and the younger dynasties, for their own benefit, had to maintain respect to the title. Actually, it was even convenient on various international diplomatic occasions by excluding potential protocol arguments about priority between representatives of three other empires: annoying trifles like that could source the “beautiful friendship”. And, of course, it was also preventing Brits from making silly claims (their imperial title was the youngest).

In general, Austrian Empire maintained good relations with almost all European states due to its absence of the expansionist ideas and well-developed economy having numerous things to over and extensive demands for the imports.

After surviving humiliation of the defeats and loss of Hungary, FJI and his government embarked upon much less ambitious but more meaningful political course helped by the fact that as a result the Empire was now heavily dominated by a historically heavily industrialized Austria-Czechia region which was producing all types of engines, weapons and chemical products.
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Škoda Works became one of the world’s renown manufacturers producing heavy guns for the navy, mountain guns or mortars, locomotives, machine tools and all types of the industrial equipment.
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Shipbuilding developed in Trieste - the Austrian fleet was not backward and poorly developed, and among its ships it was possible to find extremely technically interesting specimens that combined cheapness with good characteristics like 3 coastal defense battleships of “Monarch” class built in 1893-97:
  • Displacement 5547 tons, length is 99.2 m, width 17 m, draft 6.4 m.
  • Power of steam engines 8500 hp, speed 17.5 knots.
  • Armor (Harvey steel): belt 270-220 mm, casemates 80 mm, towers 250 mm, deck 40 mm.
  • Armament: four 240 mm, six 150 mm guns, ten 47 mm Skoda guns and four 47 mm Gochkis guns, 2 torpedo tubes.
The navy was steadily growing but prior to the Great Naval Rush it was kept within the reasonable limits without really big ships. Soon it was going to change.

In the Austrian army the major decisions in 1867-1895 were made by Archduke Albrecht, Duke of Teschen, who was the cousin of the Emperor Franz Joseph and his leading advisor in military affairs and “fighting a fierce rearguard action against all forms of innovation.” The budget military spendings per capita were less than in the major European countries and its conscription rate of 0.29% was low if compared to 0.47% in Germany, 0.35% in Russia and 0.75% in France. While being prevailing German in its ethnic make-up, the army remained multi-ethnic.To aid communication between the multitude of ethnicities, the army developed a simple language called “Army Slavic”, based primarily on Czech. The army finally changed its white uniforms to more practical dark blue and it had quite good weapons, including its own version of the machine gun. However, based upon the budgetary considerations, there was a rather questionable decision of retaining the bronze cannons. In a time of peace it was under 300,000.

Why bother at all with anything beyond a token army and naval force? The answer is obvious: Italy. Only getting a bloody nose could cure what looked as a national aggressive itch in the posteriors and even these periods of a prevailing reason tended to be the short ones. As soon as the bleeding stopped, there will be new calls for “restoration of the Roman Empire” or at least “return of all Italian lands” which, by the reasons not quite clear, included not only Trieste but also Tyrol and the coastal part of Croatia. Probably, if Italy was given a free hand on getting its colonial desires, it would keep it busy for years (providing that the weapons do not have weapons more modern than the swords and spears) but so far its colonial ideas were going contrary to the interests of the Big Guys and, in the case which is better not to be mentioned, the natives who happened to have magazine rifles and machine guns. Even permission to occupy Southern part of Somalia did not satisfy its colonial itch and neither of the Colonial Powers could understand why: all reports by their …er… researchers had been confirming that the region has very nice sandy beaches and even more of a good quality sand and rock inland; it was an act of a pure unselfishness from all of them, especially France which already had been nearby, to make such a sacrifice but the Italians grabbed it and did not even say “grazie” (or whatever it would be in the Italian ).

So, u fortunately, Austria had to watch military and naval developments and to waste money on keeping abreast with them to protect itself from … the Italians.

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Besides growing navy, Austria had a big merchant fleet based on Trieste. Manufacturers based in Austria were looking for sales markets for their products, and trading companies were set up that opened up these markets and in return imported goods and raw materials required domestically. So by the late 1990s Austria had the tenth largest merchant navy inEurope with around 2000 steamships - 200 of them in international ocean shipping - with a total tonnage of around 740,000 GRT. Inland navigation was also part of the merchant navy, with the Danube Steamship Company as the most prominent representative. One sixth of the im- and export of Austria was handeled by the merchant navy. For the empire´s industry a far better solution than having to be dependent of Northgerman ports, or worst Italian ports.

There was even passenger ship line AUSTRO-AMERICANA. NYT reported: “The AUSTRO-AMERICANA liner KAISER FRANZ JOSEPH I came into port yesterday with a large number of passengers, much cargo, and a story of a whale of great proportions which tried to butt the bottom out of the big liner, and died in the attempt. The KAISER FRANZ JOSEPH I was shaken to such an extent that the skipper, all of his junior officers, half of the crew, and scores of the passengers rushed on deck in apprehension. Not until the dead body of the giant mammal was seen floating away to windward did the skipper and his men know what had been under them.”

The reasons allowing the industrial growth were the following:
1) Availability of large reserves of coal, iron, as well as other resources. (By the end of the XIX century, the Czechia and Moravia accounted for 90% of coal production and 82% of brown coal production, more than 90% of steel smelting in the Empire );
2) Convenient location of transport routes and railways;
3) Close proximity to Germany, which was the main consumer of resources and goods of heavy industry, as well as a source of investment and innovation;
4) Availability of highly qualified specialists in this region: Austria was spending about 4-5% of the budget on training engineers and technical designers.

The growth rate was impeded by a shortage of the available natural resources, which had to be imported, and the industry could not survive without the foreign investments: most of the military industry had been controlled by the German investors. OTOH, the oil industry in the Polish Galicia was heavily dependent upon the Austrian capital and machinery. With the old animosity put aside, Hungary was a big source of the raw materials and agricultural products.

After financial crisises of the 1860s and 1870s, situation stabilized and in 1892 country switched to the gold standard. The basis for the stability of the economy was the gold reserve of Austria-Hungary, the volume of which ranked sixth in the world, second only to France, Germany, England, the United States and Russia.

However, the country remained heavily agrarian (more than 50% of the population) , especially in the eastern part, with landownership dominated by the big estates, which were employing the local peasants.

90% of the railroads were state-owned and the Austrian railroad engineers actively participated in the international projects like Eastern Railroad going to Constantinople.
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Vienna developed what had previously been the bastions and glacis into the Ringstraße, a new boulevard surrounding the historical town and a major prestige project. Another major innovation was related to the Danube: its many branches were removed, and a straight course was created away from the city centre. The branch near the central city was made narrower and has been known under the somewhat misleading name Donaukanal (Danube Canal). By the late 1890s Vienna’s population reached 2,000,000.
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It became a center of high culture and of modernism and a word capital of music. And of course there were famous coffee houses. In general, the Viennese, who mostly lived in tiny, crowded flats, regarded the elegant coffee houses as their "extended living rooms" or second homes where they could meet friends and other people. And eat the pastries…… [4]
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_______
[1] Deputy Prime Minister E. Kvyatkovsky in 1935
[2] OTL high data for 1932-33 and low for 1936 - 38. Most of the numbers are from various periods of the 2nd Republic.
[3] Well, of course, as the “imperial” dynasty House of Osman may disagree but if one counts from the conquest of Constantinople, the Hapsburgs were still beating them by 13 years: 1440 vs. 1453. Anyway, the Ottomans did not count.
[4] They are unbelievable…
 
International position of the Austrian Empire was somewhat peculiar: it was treated with a much higher respect than its economic or military power should warrant because, however you put it, the Hapsburg empire was the oldest European empire and the Hapsburgs were by far the oldest imperial dynasty [3]
[3] Well, of course, as the “imperial” dynasty House of Osman may disagree but if one counts from the conquest of Constantinople, the Hapsburgs were still beating them by 13 years: 1440 vs. 1453.
Well Venice still beat both to it with the Fourth Crusade, so yay italians recovering their title(?)
Anyway, the Ottomans did not count.
You're the best person
So, u fortunately, Austria had to watch military and naval developments and to waste money on keeping abreast with them to protect itself from … the Italians.
Gasp

Unbelievable indeed
 
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