Thames Television
14th October 1980:
Continuity: In one hour, the ITN News at Ten with Alistair Burnet, but now, Andrew Gardner presents a Labour leadership hustings for Thames Television.
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Gardner: Tonight, we hear from three people looking to be elected as the next Labour Party leader this weekend. With current polling in mind, this is not only a fight to become leader of the opposition, but to become the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Tonight I am joined by Julian Haviland, ITN Political Editor, as well as Tony Benn, Denis Healey, and Tam Dalyell.
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10:01pm
News at Ten:
Burnet: This is the News At Ten, and I am Alistair Burnet. Tonight's main headline: the three candidates for the position of Leader of the Labour Party tonight waged war on a variety of issues, live nationwide on Thames Television.
Issues discussed included national policy, internal party reforms and the party's track record in governemnt. Our polticial correspondent Glyn Mathias has more
Mathias: Labour at War is how this Thames Television debate was framed prior to its airing. And it duly delivered, as Tony Benn, Denis Healey and Tam Dalyell clashed ahead of next week's first round on who shall be the one to succeed Jim Callaghan.
Throughout the evening, Labour Party members asked a variety of questions to the three candidates, with the topic of the evening being:
Audience 1: What do you think about the internal structure of the Labour Party, and what would you do to improve it?
Mathias: Tony Benn was invited to elaborate, and given his campaign of internal reform, Benn delivered, attacking what he perceived to be the Labour establishment's plan to undermine grassroots membership:
Benn: The Labour Party was built on the working man and the trade union, and to see party policy, leadership and the makeup of the National Executive Committee dictated by undemocratic demagogues so committed to ignoring the general will of membership, is something which deeply saddens me, and it is something I will work to stamp out.
Mathias: Denis Healey on the other hand, was more complimentary of the approach, attempting to chastise Benn:
Healey: Mr Benn seems to believe that if the internal makeup of the Labour Party does not amount to a Politbuto, it amounts to nothing-
Benn: No, no, that's not what I am saying-
Healey: The Labour Party has survived for nearly a century with the current structure in place. I do not believe that an electoral college for manifestos or leadership contests helps this party in any way other than giving ground to extremists.
Dalyell simply agreed with Benn, and chastised Healey for attempting to broker a devolution referendum whilst in government:
Dalyell: If Mr Healey was so bothered about extremists, why did he do a deal with the Scottish Nationalists?
Mathias: The second topic of the evening was on a topic more close to Dalyell's heart:
Audience 2: There's been a lot of talk about Labour's stance on the union. If elected leader, will you commit to the status quo or further devolution.
Mathias: Dalyell was now in his element:
Dalyell: I firmly oppose any form of Scottish Home Rule. Why should an MP in Blackburn, Lanarkshire have power over the affairs in Blackburn, Lancashire, but not his own constituency? I've said this many a time: a capitulation to devolution is one step closer to independence, and I savour the union too much to allow that. Labour have abandoned the union under previous leaders, I say: No more!
Mathias: Perhaps the strongest rebuttal of that position came from Benn:
Benn: Mr Dalyell makes an interesting point on Blackburn, Lancashire, but I say this: the devolution plan would not sully the plan for Westminster or the sanctity of the union. It is a deeply narrow minded principle to believe that Home Rule in Scotland is a poor idea - look where that thought led the Liberal Party almost a century ago!
Another question which allowed Healey a chance to shine was on "imperialism", ie the legacy of previous Labour governments in terms of international intervention, such as the decision to take a loan from the IMF or the decision to take no official stance during the EEC referendum. Rather subdued, Healey, had the odd quip in his bow, particularly on the EEC, which both Benn and Dalyell opposed him on:
Healey: We've heard much talk from Mr Benn and Mr Dalyell on Europe, but the fact remains that on the prevalent issue of our time, the EEC referendum, they are adamant to disrespect a democratic verdict.
Mathias: Indeed, it was these three contrasting styles which led to confusion with the audience vote on who had won the debate.
Tony Benn: 35%
Denis Healey: 35%
Tam Dalyell: 30%
The bookmakers are equally coy on the odds of each candidate to win next week:
Denis Healey: 3/1
Tony Benn: 13/4
Tam Dalyell: 30/1
The Labour annual conference will begin this Saturday, the 18th October, with the leadership vote taking place on Thursday. However, there is one significant problem for Healey, who is still considered a slim frontrunner - The National Executive Committee are planning to file a motion which would allow them to change the rules of the leadership election mid-contest, in the event of a second round, to their preferred electoral college system. This would significantly benefit both Benn and Dalyell.
Denis Healey will therefore be feeling the forces of the party's left breathing down his neck. If he can withstand that pressure, then he remains a slight favourite to be the next Leader of the Opposition, and Prime Minister.
Glyn Mathias, ITN, London.