Moonlight in a Jar: An Al-Andalus Timeline

One of the Mardukian personae? almost every major god tend to be the lighthing/thunder one, the nordic is the exception and still is a major one
Pretty much though as a sort of anti-Markuk. Ordered peaceful creation as opposed to the violence of Marduk laying out Tiamat. I just had a quick google though and I'm having trouble finding anything to back this up.

Edit: I've done some more reading and I don't think I know enough on this subject to hold a proper opinion. Hopefully someone else can chime in.
 
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If the Asmarids and the Irbisids make an alliance to protect against their common enemy, the Bataids from exerting too much influence in the Mediterranean and taking over Egypt, they could keep the Bataids in check for sometime.

The unintended side effects of an alliance might allow the Irbisids or their successors to take part in the Blossoming as well and develop a liking for New World goods and for Persian culture to have greater influence, think Persian carpets in Danin, etc.
It's safe to say that the Persians, as well as other groups like Arabs, Zanj, or Naimans in Dar-al-Islam will make their marks in the Blossoming, since it really seems that it's just the medieval Islamic Golden Age (Is it really a defined period if it never ended....?) compounded by increasing globalization and trade across all Muslim nations, regardless of any political affiliations.

Therefore, I think it's certainly possible that the Otomi Emir might take a liking towards Persian goods or other Old World items in the Hajj, which might spur trends towards acquiring even more goods from places like China, Rumaniyah, Persia, or India amongst the Otomi/Arabo-Otomi elite (Royalty tends to be the trendsetters most of the time...). The same could definitely happen with the Persians receiving goods like chocolate, vanilla, or other goods from the Algarves.

Persia really is a wild card though politically due to the state of the Irbisid Khanate, especially after the Khan's death. While I do think the Bataids could be kept in check for a time by both powers even without an alliance, we don't even know if the Irbisids will survive, since they can easily follow the path of the Afsharids or the Timurids and collapse in a relatively short time.

Regardless of what sort of Persia will emerge by the end of it all, there might be a pronounced increase of Persian migration as a result of the political instability in the region, which is honestly be one of the most interesting prospects about this next period: an increase in the movement of people, whether voluntarily or involuntary (quite sadly) in the case of the Persians, since the world is so much more connected in this timeline. An early and more pronounced Persian diaspora towards places like the Nimanni Sultanate or even in Al-Andalus and the Otomi Alliance could spread Persian culture far wider and leave a more lasting influence than in OTL.
 
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Regardless of what sort of Persia will emerge by the end of it all, there might be a pronounced increase of Persian migration as a result of the political instability in the region, which is honestly be one of the most interesting prospects about this next period: an increase in the movement of people, whether voluntarily or involuntary (quite sadly) in the case of the Persians, since the world is so much more connected in this timeline. An early and more pronounced Persian diaspora towards places like the Nimanni Sultanate or even in Al-Andalus and the Otomi Alliance could spread Persian culture far wider and leave a more lasting influence than in OTL.
Umm the thing if persian become the TTL equivalent of Lebanon-Syrians in the new world, briging shia islam and far different culture to the natives Hazimid and convert al-aqsa natives
 
Umm the thing if persian become the TTL equivalent of Lebanon-Syrians in the new world, briging shia islam and far different culture to the natives Hazimid and convert al-aqsa natives
Aren't Persians currently majority Sunni in OTL? There hasn't been a Shia dynasty like the Safavids in MiaJ yet, much less someone like Ismail that forced conversion on all of the Sunni Persians. So technically, they're not that schismatic yet, although that could change in the future.

Also I'd think that Persian immigrants would generally be a positive cultural influence on Al-Andalus and the rest of Western Islam, bringing Persian art, textiles, cuisine, books, and etc. It's just the matter of the culture clash that Western/Eastern Muslims have toward each other in terms of customs or cultural differences that would be the source of conflict between the two groups.
 
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Aren't Persians currently majority Sunni in OTL? There hasn't been a Shia dynasty like the Safavids in MiaJ yet, much less someone like Ismail that forced conversion on all of the Sunni Persians. So technically, they're not that schismatic yet, although that could change in the future.
Yeah i forgot fully Shia Iran not happened yet, was more gradual. That make it even better as they would be more 'mainstream' sunni vs the more syncretist/mystic suffist of Andalus. Briging Iranian Culture and goods would add a new etho-cultural compontent to Al-Aqsa still being muslim. Maybe Persian learning of the new world thanks the Otomi Hajj and some starting to emigrated as the region is a mess thanks Romans?
 
I had a brainwave about England/Angland!
perhaps due to the larger amount of nordic influence than in OTL, three ravens could become the national symbol, instead of the three golden lions of our england

example:
england.png
 
I had a brainwave about England/Angland!
perhaps due to the larger amount of nordic influence than in OTL, three ravens could become the national symbol, instead of the three golden lions of our england

example:
View attachment 587571
I'm thinking about that a little. I don't think England will get excessively Nordic - like, it'll have a more Anglo-Saxon feel, sure, but it's not outright Vikingland. It's Danish-influenced.
 
I'm thinking about that a little. I don't think England will get excessively Nordic - like, it'll have a more Anglo-Saxon feel, sure, but it's not outright Vikingland. It's Danish-influenced.
I mean the English lions of OTL are of Norman origin, and I think we can all agree that England isn't excessively Norman
 
I mean the English lions of OTL are of Norman origin, and I think we can all agree that England isn't excessively Norman
Angland definitely is not Norman, since the Normans didn't come and invade the island since Sweyn Forkbeard and Cnut the Rich managed to consolidate power and make the Danelaw the dominant region in the island. While it would be probably be more Anglo-Saxon than pure Nordic, I think it would be influenced enough by Denmark and Norway that it's considered as a Nordic nation in MiaJ.

Interestingly enough, there's been passing mentions in previous posts that our English does exist in London as some sort of dialect due to trade with Normandy and the rest of France but I don't think it'll be anything but a dialect compared to the Anglo-Saxon/Danish influenced Anglish language centered in Grimsby that gains prominence over the archipelago.

Meanwhile, it seems likely that the Anglish kings would use the Dragon as well as the old Danish Raven banners as part of their coat of arms as well as their heraldry, with the Dragon signifying total war between a nation, with no acceptance of surrender or prisoners.

1601594407149.png

A likely Anglish draco banner, based on old Wessex and Roman designs

Now, when Angland and Scotland does unify, which one goes first to place in the Scottish unicorn?
🤔
 
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Angland definitely is not Norman, since the Normans didn't come and invade the peninsula since Sweyn Forkbeard and Cnut the Rich managed to consolidate power and make the Danelaw the dominant region in the island. While it would be probably be more Anglo-Saxon than pure Nordic, I think it would be influenced enough by Denmark and Norway that it's considered as a Nordic nation in MiaJ.

Interestingly enough, there's been passing mentions in previous posts that our English does exist in London as some sort of dialect due to trade with Normandy and the rest of France but I don't think it'll be anything but a dialect compared to the Anglo-Saxon/Danish influenced Anglish language centered in Grimsby that gains prominence over the archipelago.

Meanwhile, it seems likely that the Anglish kings would use the Dragon as well as the old Danish Raven banners as part of their coat of arms as well as their heraldry, with the Dragon signifying total war between a nation, with no acceptance of surrender or prisoners.

View attachment 587578
A likely Anglish draco banner, based on old Wessex and Roman designs

Now, when Angland and Scotland does unify, which one goes first to place in the Scottish unicorn?
🤔
The raven, dragon, and unicorn could share space on the hypothetical Anglish coat of arms.
 
The raven, dragon, and unicorn could share space on the hypothetical Anglish coat of arms.
All three could be in a British coat of arms, but not all three could act as the supporters according to standard coat of arms rules. I'm partial to the Dragon, but I wouldn't be angry if Hats canonized the Raven as the primary supporter of an Anglish coat of arms (It'll probably depend on what ruling house likes the most at that time).
 
All three could be in a British coat of arms, but not all three could act as the supporters according to standard coat of arms rules. I'm partial to the Dragon, but I wouldn't be angry if Hats canonized the Raven as the primary supporter of an Anglish coat of arms (It'll probably depend on what ruling house likes the most at that time).
a nordic raven and a saxon wyvern as supporters to the Anglish coat of arms would be a very cool thing indeed
 
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a nordic raven and a saxon wyvern as supporters to the Anglish coat of arms would be a very cool thing indeed
AnglandCoatofArms.png

I'll grant your wish...sort of with my attempt at an Angland escutcheon (the shield that makes up the coat of arms) since making it is a lot easier than the entire coat of arms, which is extremely hard to make from scratch with all of those supporters and crowns and crests. Even the motto is practically unknown for Angland (Dieu et mon droit is French!!!!).

With MiaJ's POD being so far back, we actually butterfly a lot of what England and Scotland actually represents at a national level. All of those lions and unicorns are practically gone or dramatically altered as a result (Scotland's lion traces back to the 12th century with a specific monarch so that's butterflied away). It's possible for Scotland's other animal: the unicorn to maintain its presence in the coat of arms or even be the primary representation of what a MiaJ Scotland would look like, which would be another interesting fanart project to do. At least unicorns fighting against dragons would be a pretty cool image for the denizens of MiaJ.

It's interesting to think that the Andalusi and the Maghrebi not only has to contend with one dragon but two as well! The Chinese dragon of the Great Wu and the Wyvern of the Kingdom of Angland. Those are tough odds, but one that the Asmarid Empire can probably contend with using ingenuity and strength.
 
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View attachment 587626
I'll grant your wish...sort of with my attempt at an Angland escutcheon (the shield that makes up the coat of arms) since making it is a lot easier than the entire coat of arms, which is extremely hard to make from scratch with all of those supporters and crowns and crests. Even the motto is practically unknown for Angland (Dieu et mon droit is French!!!!).

With MiaJ's POD being so far back, we actually butterfly a lot of what England and Scotland actually represents at a national level. All of those lions and unicorns are practically gone or dramatically altered as a result (Scotland's lion traces back to the 12th century with a specific monarch so that's butterflied away). It's possible for Scotland's other animal: the unicorn to maintain its presence in the coat of arms or even be the primary representation of what a MiaJ Scotland would look like, which would be another interesting fanart project to do.

It's an interesting image to think that the Andalusi and the Maghrebi not only has to contend with one dragon but two as well! The Chinese dragon of the Great Wu and the Wyvern of the Kingdom of Angland.
That's pretty amazing.

And it is true that the Andalusi and Maghrebi have... some dragon issues. Hell, Christians even call their gun-wielding troops dragoons!
 
View attachment 587626
I'll grant your wish...sort of with my attempt at an Angland escutcheon (the shield that makes up the coat of arms) since making it is a lot easier than the entire coat of arms, which is extremely hard to make from scratch with all of those supporters and crowns and crests. Even the motto is practically unknown for Angland (Dieu et mon droit is French!!!!).

With MiaJ's POD being so far back, we actually butterfly a lot of what England and Scotland actually represents at a national level. All of those lions and unicorns are practically gone or dramatically altered as a result (Scotland's lion traces back to the 12th century with a specific monarch so that's butterflied away). It's possible for Scotland's other animal: the unicorn to maintain its presence in the coat of arms or even be the primary representation of what a MiaJ Scotland would look like, which would be another interesting fanart project to do. At least unicorns fighting against dragons would be a pretty cool image for the denizens of MiaJ.

It's interesting to think that the Andalusi and the Maghrebi not only has to contend with one dragon but two as well! The Chinese dragon of the Great Wu and the Wyvern of the Kingdom of Angland. Those are tough odds, but one that the Asmarid Empire can probably contend with using ingenuity and strength.
this is really really really good, but I feel the raven should be shown as more of an equal to the wyvern, sorta like this?
dfghj.png

or this:
dfghj.png
 
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I definitely like the 2nd iteration better since it's concise with the colors of Angland.
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One of the interesting things that I thought about the world of MiaJ is the state of the Uyghurs in this timeline. Without the Mongols to conquer Qocho, the entire Uyghur ethnicity in MiaJ would probably be unrecognizable from OTL, since the Chagatai Mongols were the ones that led the Uyghurs towards adopting Persianate customs and the modern language, which led to the extinction of Old Uyghur. It's possible for the Uyghurs to still be decidedly Buddhist with the slower spread of Islam through the Silk Road for a few centuries in ACT IX, but we might lead to a modern Qocho with a mixed Buddhist and Muslim population and a region more influenced by China or Tibet than the Islamic polities.

I think the intermixing of Uyghurs and Tocharians/Sogdians would probably be inevitable though (Uyghurs look more Caucasian/Indo-European than other Central Asians), but the language and cultures would probably more in line with their ancient Uyghur ancestors or the OTL Yugur ethnicity.
 
All three could be in a British coat of arms, but not all three could act as the supporters according to standard coat of arms rules. I'm partial to the Dragon, but I wouldn't be angry if Hats canonized the Raven as the primary supporter of an Anglish coat of arms (It'll probably depend on what ruling house likes the most at that time).
If you really want a fun curveball: Our POD is far enough back that the standard rules of heraldry may be totally different.

We're going tincture on tincture 24/7, kids. THE HORROR.
 
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