Medieval America Mark III

Some Scorcesean stage play quotes:

"Woe betide me, I am now an average peasant. I must live the rest of my life as a schnook."

"Youseth shall not believe this. He hath slain sixteen Pennsylvanians. He was an interior decorator." "His palace looked befouled."

"Leaveth the sword,taketh the canoli."
 
The mall in Dover is the Rockaway Mall. I'm assuming when society collapsed the Jackson Whites multiplied since a lot of them lack electricity as it is. I used to date one and went to high school with a lot of them. There are similar groups in Northwest NJ they could merge with. Nowadays they live in Mahwah, Ringwood, etc. and when I was a kid they got in a shootout with the Mahwah police.

Lakewood NJ is currently a major Hasidic center to a lot of local controversy I won't get into. A Hasidic sect dominates the town and believes the area to be the Promised Land as their sect rejects Israel or something.

Presumably, the mall doesn't much resemble the mall as we know it since the tribe would have had to alter the structure significantly due to not having the tech needed to properly maintain it.

I do like the color the Jewish community adds to Novo Giorsi.
 

tehskyman

Banned
Im pretty sure that the capital of Jersey is Philadelphia or Trenton. Also I'm not sure if the elites would speak Italian/ a replica of Italian. IMO they'd be speaking whatever language other Warlords of the Mid Atlantic speak which would be some derivative of english.

We might be overplaying the mafia element of New Jersey. It'd only affect the nobility and even then, most Italian Americans have assimilated pretty well and don't really speak Italian anymore.
 
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Im pretty sure that the capital of Jersey is Philadelphia. Also I'm not sure if the elites would speak Italian/ a replica of Italian. IMO they'd be speaking whatever language other Warlords of the Mid Atlantic speak which would be some derivative of english.
Maybe it was originally Hoboken during the "independent" phase of New Jersey's existence. @Flashman's post mentioned how the Boss of Philadelphia conquered New Jersey for the Americans after converting to Nondenom. So maybe he moved it to Philly because that was his capital under the old system.

Same thing with Novo Giorsi's faux-Italian. It was the language of the elites under the old independent system and was possibly phased out after the conquest.
 

tehskyman

Banned
Maybe it was originally Hoboken during the "independent" phase of New Jersey's existence. @Flashman's post mentioned how the Boss of Philadelphia conquered New Jersey for the Americans after converting to Nondenom. So maybe he moved it to Philly because that was his capital under the old system.

Same thing with Novo Giorsi's faux-Italian. It was the language of the elites under the old independent system and was possibly phased out after the conquest.
Would they speak faux-Italian or just some corrupted version of the Jersey accent?

To take from my previous post, we might be overplaying the mafia element of New Jersey. It'd only affect the nobility and even then, most Italian Americans have assimilated pretty well and don't really speak Italian anymore. So New Jersey wouldn't turn into Novo Giorsi.

Also I personally think that the State of New Jersey is more cohesive than we've portrayed it thus far.
 
These are supposed to be feudal states. Most feudal states weren't that cohesive. A bunch of local heavies paying nominal allegiance to a king and beating up their local peasants.
 
I think even if the rest of you insist on going with Flashman's overall concept over mine, some of my ideas about things like the Jersey Devil or Lakewood or the hill tribes and Port Authority deserve inclusion and don't contradict it.
 

tehskyman

Banned
I think even if the rest of you insist on going with Flashman's overall concept over mine, some of my ideas about things like the Jersey Devil or Lakewood or the hill tribes and Port Authority deserve inclusion and don't contradict it.

Yea those are totally fine.
 
Would they speak faux-Italian or just some corrupted version of the Jersey accent?
I'm guessing that Nogiosi uses Italian similar to how the Medieval Lords used Latin, a language of the courts and the ruling class. However, your average serf would probably speak a heavily corrupted version of English that would sound illegible for those from faraway states.
 

tehskyman

Banned
I'm guessing that Nogiosi uses Italian similar to how the Medieval Lords used Latin, a language of the courts and the ruling class. However, your average serf would probably speak a heavily corrupted version of English that would sound illegible for those from faraway states.

Wouldn't Neo-Medieval Lords be using Modern Day General American (Church) English as their liturgical and courtly language? I would imagine that all lords in the Non-Denom world would be using it, even in Jersey where the local mobility derives their titles from Mafia organization
 
I think even if the rest of you insist on going with Flashman's overall concept over mine, some of my ideas about things like the Jersey Devil or Lakewood or the hill tribes and Port Authority deserve inclusion and don't contradict it.

Oh those are fantastic. They should be kept. I am just big on feeling ethnoculturally and linguistically NJ is much more Anglo-American like the rest of the lands east of the Mississippi are.
 
Uh...as a New Jerseyan I can tell you at least a thin majority of people are Italian and the Mafia has ALOT of power. The Mafia nobility concept is based in reality for this. I am not dumb enough to post specifics on the internet but The Sopranos is a pretty accurate depiction of North Jersey. What my scenario said they'd do in NJ in the Regression they're doing right now in Italy: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/10/mafia-distributes-food-to-italys-struggling-residents

I'll humbly concede re: Italian for good then, though will defend myself I never minded the mafioso nobility bit at all, either. I was mostly thinking on sheer big-picture demographics and it being sandwiched between other Anglic areas with many Anglos in itself as well.
 

tehskyman

Banned
Even if the region is populated by people of Italian American heritage, do they speak enough Italian that it'd supplant Church English?

Wikipedia says no
 
I think I was the first one to come up with the idea of a NJ feudal state coming out of the Mafia. I got it from a historian on TV saying "Your Dark Age knight had a lot more in common with Tony Soprano than Lancelot". And since New Jersey, which is where a lot of NY and even Philly bosses made their home, and Medieval New Jersey was a feudal state in a sea of Republics, it seemed to come natural.

As for language, while a lot of titles probably come from Mafia terms, (if not exactly, I think when White is using words like "President" or even the names of countries, it has to be seen as a translation convention, because he's far more interested in geography than linguistics) even if a larger proportion of New jersey spoke Italian today, it would not be that way after a millennium. The language of the court would be whatever the superpower of the region was. Ethnically, they'd definitely look very Eastern Mediterranean. Jersey is one of the most diverse states in the country, and de-urbanization isn't going to mitigate that when the entire tri-state area has that makeup.

They're most definitely Non-Denom. Catholics (as well as Jews) live in some of the bigger cities, but the Non-Denom Church is only going to endorse leaders from that faith. (And the aforementioned diversity probably made them a prime spot for the United States to try their Non-Denominational experiment). However, there's probably a lot of refashioned Catholic Churches, and NJ centers of worship look more Catholic than is the norm.
 
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Largely, the concept of Novo Giorsian is an aesthetic choice, certainly not realistic, comparable to Northeastern Budhism or Californian Scientology.
 
Largely, the concept of Novo Giorsian is an aesthetic choice, certainly not realistic, comparable to Northeastern Budhism or Californian Scientology.
The guiding ethos of this experiment seems to be "is it interesting?" rather than "is it realistic?". Frankly, if it were realistic large chunks of America would still be poisoned with radiation due to all the meltdowns caused by lack of maintenance. I'd say that we should incorporate a mix of the two ideas for New Jersey into the official canon.
 

tehskyman

Banned
Well it’s not just one or the other. In the west,Scientology and Bhudhism are very wacky and interesting , but that’s what White gave to us. Even then, plausible explanations were given as to why those religions took hold. In most scenarios we’ve stuck more to the realism front. It’s not pure realism, I think that it’s safe to say that some wacky things would pop up so long as they remain semi realistic.
 
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