Mary Tudor, Queen of France & A Different Charles

[ordinarylittleme]

Born in 1492, Charles Orlando would be the only surviving child of his parents, King Charles VIII of France and Duchess Anne of Brittany. After succeeding his father at the age of six, his mother ruled as regent in his name, working alongside his heir presumptive Louis, Duke of Orleans. The duchess would never remarry although it has been rumored that she had a flirtation with the much older duke of Orleans, whose marriage had ended after his sterile wife, Joan agreed to enter a convent and later became a saint. The young king at the age of ten was betrothed to the daughter of the English king, Mary, who was four years younger than him. This meant that Mary's betrothal with the two-year-old Charles of Ghent was broken. However, they were all still very young and things could change very quickly as Anne knew.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Taken from "List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage"

Charles VIII m. Anne of Brittany

1. Charles IX b. 1492 m. 1511 Mary Tudor b. 1496
- Elisabeth b. 1511
- miscarriage
- Charles X b. 1513
- Louis b. 1514
- stillborn
- Marie b. 1516
- miscarriage
- Edouard b. 1519
- Charlotte b. 1520
- stillborn
- Alexandre b. 1524
- Madeleine b. 1525
- miscarriage
- Joan b. 1529
- Constance b. 1530

please help with marriages I'm thinking of writing a full TL for this

@EdwardRex
-
Just some ideas:

Elisabeth - Henry, Prince of Wales (b. 1511)
Charles IX of France - Blanca of Aragon (b. 1512) -alt daughter of Ferdinand II and Germaine de Foix- or Margaret of Scotland (b. 1513) -alt daughter of James Iv and Margaret Tudor-
Louis, Duke of Orleans - Margaret of Scotland (b. 1513), or perhaps Danish or Polish Princess
Marie - James IV of Scotland (b. 1512)
Eduard, Duke of Angouleme - Catherine d’Medici (b. 1519)
Charlotte - Juan III of Castile and Aragon (b. 1518) -alt son of Miguel de Paz and Magdalena of Navarre-
Alexandre - Archbishop/Cardinal
Madeline - Philip, Duke of Savoy (b. 1525) -alt grandson of Philbert II, Duke of Savoy and Margaret of Austria-
Joan - Philip III, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1527) -alt son of Charles V and Catherine Tudor-
Constance - Abbess of Caen

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Fourteen year old princess Mary Tudor wore a beautiful purple gown with gold trim to her proxy wedding ceremony, the French ambassador representing the king Charles Orlando first bowed low then knelt to kiss her hand, he was visibly surprised when she spoke perfect, though thickly accented, French throughout their meeting. In truth she had been raised as a fille de France for as long as she remembered and her parents had carefully prepared for her future role as its queen. She enjoyed the delightful festivities with all their sumptuously rich decorations and delicious food, she even enjoyed the endless series of dances that she had to perform. In two weeks' time she would move to France and marry the king in person. She had a miniature portrait of him, he was painted as a very handsome man with brown hair, fair skin and large brown eyes. She could not wait to become a great consort, she only hoped her husband would love her the way her father had loved her mother.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Twenty year old Charles Orlando could not help but grin as he wrapped his arms around his wife's waist and kissed her protruding belly. Sixteen year old Mary Tudor smiled back at him, revealing perfect white teeth. Despite being in confinement her ladies were not able to prevent the king from visiting her. He greatly admired her looks, she was a tall grey-eyed redhead with pale skin and delicate facial features. When he kissed her as her husband he could feel his heart nearly burst out of his chest from happiness. She was a very lively girl who, upon their first meeting, had danced and played the lute to entertain the guests; she had charmed Anne of Brittany who had doted upon her, but she was slowly beginning to win him over too, especially as she was pregnant with their first child. He knew she wanted a son to carry on their dynasty but he secretly wanted a daughter who would be just like her mother and grandmother.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Fourteen year old princess Mary Tudor wore a beautiful purple gown with gold trim to her proxy wedding ceremony, the French ambassador representing the king Charles Orlando first bowed low then knelt to kiss her hand, he was visibly surprised when she spoke perfect, though thickly accented, French throughout their meeting. In truth she had been raised as a fille de France for as long as she remembered and her parents had carefully prepared for her future role as its queen. She enjoyed the delightful festivities with all their sumptuously rich decorations and delicious food, she even enjoyed the endless series of dances that she had to perform. In two years time she would move to France and marry the king in person. She had a miniature portrait of him, he was painted as a very handsome man with brown hair, fair skin and large brown eyes. She could not wait to become a great consort, she only hoped her husband would love her the way her father had loved her mother.

Not sure about the thickly accented part. Royal pupils were usually given a foreign tutor to ensure they had no accent. And if she's already fourteen, why are they waiting for her to move to France? Margaret Beaufort (the main barrier to why her namesake granddaughter wasn't sent north before she was) is dead, as is Henry VII (his health was so precarious after Elizabeth died that I could see him dying earlier if anything), so why the delay?

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Anne of Brittany was free from her husband Charles upon his death, she had never loved him and resented how he invaded Brittany, forcibly took her as his wife and only saw her as a way to annex Brittany to the French crown. Thankfully she now had the power to exile his sister Anne, Duchess of Bourbon who was fiercely loyal to her brother and had often tried to compromise the independence of her duchy. She was careful to stay neutral with regard to Breton-French relations as she did not want anyone to have an excuse to remove her from the regency and therefore her son. It was also for that reason that she kept her relationship with the Duke of Orleans a chaste and courteous one. Although she thought he was very handsome and would have made a better husband than the one God had given her, it was not to be, after all the queens of France did not remarry.

Her young son Charles Orlando (whom she would only call Orlando as that was the name she had wanted) was a healthy and vigorous child who grew well and strong, he was capable of holding short conversations by the time he was four. He was the light, pride and joy of her life and she insisted on being as involved in his life as possible, this went both ways as he also adored her and sought her advice on everything as he grew older. She was very proud of him, he had proven to be a skilled student and athlete and had also grown up to be a very handsome man who would be a great heartbreaker if she hadn't specifically taught him to always remain faithful to his wife.

Yes her life was much happier after she was widowed and became the most powerful woman in France and she would do what it took to keep things the way they were.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Not sure about the thickly accented part. Royal pupils were usually given a foreign tutor to ensure they had no accent. And if she's already fourteen, why are they waiting for her to move to France? Margaret Beaufort (the main barrier to why her namesake granddaughter wasn't sent north before she was) is dead, as is Henry VII (his health was so precarious after Elizabeth died that I could see him dying earlier if anything), so why the delay?

IOTL Mary only moved to France when she was eighteen so this is the opposite of a delay. ITTL Henry VIII knowing what happened to his grandmother AND having an older wife has decided to keep her in England a little longer so she is more physically mature.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

IOTL Mary only moved to France when she was eighteen so this is the opposite of a delay. ITTL Henry VIII knowing what happened to his grandmother AND having an older wife has decided to keep her in England a little longer so she is more physically mature.

Katherine was fifteen when she arrived in England in October 1501, but thirteen when she married Arthur in May 1499. Margaret Beaufort was only able to get her son to delay until January 1503 (a year after the marriage contract) when Margaret Tudor was thirteen (born November 1489). So not sure why Henry DITHERS for two years - which, I have every suspicion would cause some concerns from France since the dauphin is the only thing between François, Duc d'Orléans (if Louis left no sons) and the crown

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Katherine was fifteen when she arrived in England in October 1501, but thirteen when she married Arthur in May 1499. Margaret Beaufort was only able to get her son to delay until January 1503 (a year after the marriage contract) when Margaret Tudor was thirteen (born November 1489). So not sure why Henry DITHERS for two years - which, I have every suspicion would cause some concerns from France since the dauphin is the only thing between François, Duc d'Orléans (if Louis left no sons) and the crown

True. I'll edit that bit out.

 

[EdwardRex]

True. I'll edit that bit out.

It is not too terribly unlikely. Henry might of wanted to keep his favorite child around some more, especially since he was very depressed after Elizabeth of York died.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

It is not too terribly unlikely. Henry might of wanted to keep his favorite child around some more, especially since he was very depressed after Elizabeth of York died.

Well, that, and Henry VIII might want to keep his favorite sister around.
She'll marry when she's 14, give birth when she's 16.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

On the final day of the year 1511, Mary had given birth to a beautiful girl who proved to be the spitting image of her grandmother, Elizabeth of York, and so she was named Elisabeth. This was a blissfully happy time for the couple who celebrated as though they had a son, and she was betrothed to her cousin Henry, heir to the English throne. However, there was a concern that did not leave the king's mind: the succession of Charles V, his wife's former betrothed, to the Burgundian Netherlands, the throne of Spain, and his subsequent election as Holy Roman Emperor meant that France was geographically encircled by the Habsburg monarchy. Under the advice of his mother and uncle Louis, he became an enthusiastic and generous patron of the arts and worked diligently at improving the royal library. There was now an unprecedented explosion of propaganda and publicity for the French crown. Charles Orlando had numerous large ceremonies for the various marriages, funerals, and other events that occurred under his reign. These occasions provided him with opportunities to project royal power and elevate his prestige, which was largely done through iconography. Furthermore, while these royal images flooded the kingdom, popular writers - encouraged by the king's lack of censorship - disseminated praise of their king.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Mary, Queen of France sat and stared numbly at nothing in particular, with dried tear tracks on her pretty face; she had long since been changed out of her blood-stained dress and was now wearing a fresh dress that at least didn't smell bad. She almost looked only tired, except for the fact that her eyes were cold and haunted. The fetus had been buried by the king, as his wife was currently not willing to emerge from her bedchambers and take on the role of his consort. She had slept for two days in silence, with only her pulse showing that she was alive, as she looked and sounded pretty dead to an untrained eye...

Charles IX of France had learned that he was terrible at comforting women, as everything he did seemed to only worsen the situation and he finally left after Mary started crying again when he brought in their little Elisabeth. He prayed often for the peaceful afterlife of their innocent child and had masses said for their soul, which did not seem to break through Mary's state of brokenness but at least provided himself a little bit of comfort, knowing that he did what he could.

Anne of Brittany was content traveling back and forth between Brittany and her French dower lands, living her life as an extravagant recluse, but she knew far too well the state that her daughter-in-law was in. She had to admit that she quite enjoyed the hustle and bustle of court, even if most of her time was spent comforting the young queen who seemed often in denial of the fact that her second child was gone, as she kept asking about her pregnancy and her son did not have the heart to tell her the truth...she accepted Mary's screams and tantrums as she herself had had very similar reactions. The two queens prayed a lot during those dark days, hoping for a son to secure the crown of France...

 

[rgroberts]

As am I!

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Queen Mary had recovered as best she could, and was doing her best to help out her husband, who had been so patient with her as she grieved. She came up with an idea of the "grand conseil", making it a superior court of justice. She also took on court life once again, the glittering jewel on his arm when they danced among their subjects. If she wept at night over her lost child, and he sometimes joined her, well, who would know?

Charles had heartily approved of his wife founding some hospitals and infirmaries, though he personally preferred donating to religious institutions. He knew better than to bring up his desire to reconquer Naples, since she so hated the thought of war and bloodshed over what she called "a scrap of land" (as if she'd understand). Instead they chatted over things like how to reform the legal system, how to centralize the tax system, and whether or not they should be thinking of a husband for their daughter. Her English cousin, the Prince of Wales, was just several months older than her - and he was going to be a future king. However, Charles personally thought that France had had enough English ties for now, and was currently hoping for an imperial marriage. Unfortunately, there was currently no suitable candidate...

 

[eliamartin65]

YAAY! It's back!

 

[isabella]

Taken from "List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage"

@EdwardRex
-
Just some ideas:

Elisabeth - Henry, Prince of Wales (b. 1511)
Charles IX of France - Blanca of Aragon (b. 1512) -alt daughter of Ferdinand II and Germaine de Foix- or Margaret of Scotland (b. 1513) -alt daughter of James Iv and Margaret Tudor-
Louis, Duke of Orleans - Margaret of Scotland (b. 1513), or perhaps Danish or Polish Princess
Marie - James IV of Scotland (b. 1512)
Eduard, Duke of Angouleme - Catherine d’Medici (b. 1519)
Charlotte - Juan III of Castile and Aragon (b. 1518) -alt son of Miguel de Paz and Magdalena of Navarre-
Alexandre - Archbishop/Cardinal
Madeline - Philip, Duke of Savoy (b. 1525) -alt grandson of Philbert II, Duke of Savoy and Margaret of Austria-
Joan - Philip III, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1527) -alt son of Charles V and Catherine Tudor-
Constance - Abbess of Caen

If Miguel lived Ferdinand II would NEVER remarry. Catherine de Medici’s parents would almost surely NOT marrying in this scenario so she is butterflied

 

[ordinarylittleme]

If Miguel lived Ferdinand II would NEVER remarry. Catherine de Medici’s parents would almost surely NOT marrying in this scenario so she is butterflied

This was a suggested tree, but I am making some changes to it...
Miguel didn't live. You can tell this because in an earlier post I wrote about Charles Orlando panicking about Charles V getting Spain

 

[isabella]

This was a suggested tree, but I am making some changes to it...
Miguel didn't live. You can tell this because in an earlier post I wrote about Charles Orlando panicking about Charles V getting Spain

Good.