Map Thread XX

This is a map plate for the area known as Sicatia in my project, Atlas Altera.
I post updates to my project in this thread.

006_Sicatia_Framed_ah.jpg
 
Very nice. Do you make your maps using Inkscape?
Thanks! And no, it's a whole process involving Illustrator, Photoshop, GProjector (for converting base maps, such as the terrain/relief into Winkel Tripel projection), and a whole lot of time. You can find the whole world map on my website by the way.
 
This is really an inquiry about a map, but does anyone here know of any map series or world building project that explore what the Americas, Africa, and perhaps Australia and Asia might have looked like without colonialism? I was interested in something that sort of hand waved the PoD (because it's really hard to figure out a reasonable PoD), but tried to look seriously at the consequences of no colonization and perhaps only trade taking place. I reckoned if anyone would know if something like this existed, it would be someone on this thread.
 
This is really an inquiry about a map, but does anyone here know of any map series or world building project that explore what the Americas, Africa, and perhaps Australia and Asia might have looked like without colonialism? I was interested in something that sort of hand waved the PoD (because it's really hard to figure out a reasonable PoD), but tried to look seriously at the consequences of no colonization and perhaps only trade taking place. I reckoned if anyone would know if something like this existed, it would be someone on this thread.
>Asia
China: Am I a joke to you
 
>Asia
China: Am I a joke to you
China was pretty badly affected by colonialism...

Anyway, the point was that I was more interested in maps of the Americas and Africa compared to Asia. After all, without colonialism and colonial states the Americas and Africa would look almost totally different, whereas most Asian countries, though affected by colonialism, are at least more or less continuations of pre-existing states. The biggest difference would probably be that the Indian subcontinent would be a lot more sub-divided than it actually is, but it would be hard to tell just from a map that China evolved more continuously from its Confucian traditions into modernity, for instance.
 
This is really an inquiry about a map, but does anyone here know of any map series or world building project that explore what the Americas, Africa, and perhaps Australia and Asia might have looked like without colonialism? I was interested in something that sort of hand waved the PoD (because it's really hard to figure out a reasonable PoD), but tried to look seriously at the consequences of no colonization and perhaps only trade taking place. I reckoned if anyone would know if something like this existed, it would be someone on this thread.
That's funny you should say that. This one of the main purposes of my project, Atlas Altera, while also trying to balance with the goal of trying to keep it anchored to OTL, or at least recognizable. I post updates to my project in this thread.

Graphics can be found on the website, as well as my Deviantart.

world map sample.jpg
 
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That's funny you should say that. This one of the main purposes of my project, Atlas Altera, while also trying to balance with the goal of trying to keep it anchored to OTL, or at least recognizable. I post updates to my project in this thread.
I did see that, and it partially scratches the itch, but...it wasn't quite what I was looking for. I specifically wanted something that was not anchored to OTL and not (very) recognizable. For instance, your map has a United States of America on it; I wanted to see a map where there had never even been a Thirteen Colonies, let alone a U.S.
 
I did see that, and it partially scratches the itch, but...it wasn't quite what I was looking for. I specifically wanted something that was not anchored to OTL and not (very) recognizable. For instance, your map has a United States of America on it; I wanted to see a map where there had never even been a Thirteen Colonies, let alone a U.S.
Sure. Yeah, then is the kind of project you're looking for based on a PoD where everyone is just insular?

Anyway, I think I might be selling myself short when I say my project is "recognizable." There are 900+ official languages representing 160+ language families. Compared to the real world, that's just ludicrous fantasy stuff. Mind as well be set on another planet.
 
Sure. Yeah, then is the kind of project you're looking for based on a PoD where everyone is just insular?
Not precisely insular, but one in which there is no colonialism. Trade, sure, cultural influence, well, just look at Southeast Asia re: India and Arabia, but no massive conquests and huge transoceanic empires. So, for instance, all of the polities in the Americas are indigenous, even if there might be European or East/Southeast Asian communities in some areas due to trade connections, and these polities might incorporate areas that are beyond the "autocthonic" reach of a group historically (in a similar fashion to how China expanded outside of the North China Plain, for example).

I was just wondering if anyone had looked at such a project, because it seems kind of neat...I can think of a few TLs in the Before 1900 side of the board that do something like this, at least in part, but they're textual and I was hoping for something more visual in nature...
 
Not precisely insular, but one in which there is no colonialism. Trade, sure, cultural influence, well, just look at Southeast Asia re: India and Arabia, but no massive conquests and huge transoceanic empires. So, for instance, all of the polities in the Americas are indigenous, even if there might be European or East/Southeast Asian communities in some areas due to trade connections, and these polities might incorporate areas that are beyond the "autocthonic" reach of a group historically (in a similar fashion to how China expanded outside of the North China Plain, for example).

I was just wondering if anyone had looked at such a project, because it seems kind of neat...I can think of a few TLs in the Before 1900 side of the board that do something like this, at least in part, but they're textual and I was hoping for something more visual in nature...

I remember seeing around the web a "Africa without colonialism" map that was South-side up and even included Al-Andaluz. Although I remember it being criticised, especially for only considering European colonisation and not Arabic or other ones
 
Delenda Est
This is my interpretation of Poul Anderson's Delenda Est, a short story set in his Time Patrol universe in which two time travellers leaving the distant past end up in a world where Carthage has defeated Rome due to the machinations of the Neldorians. Though I have tried not to contradict anything from the story (and let me know if I have!) I have used quite a bit of poetic license. The book mentions a Sun-Worshipping native theocracy in South America. Presumably, these are Inca, but I decided to go another direction given that the Inca did not arise for centuries after the POD. I have also added several monotheistic religions into this cover, though they are viewed as aberrations ITTL. Questions and comments are, as usual, appreciated.

- The POD is a Carthaginian victory at Ticinius in 218 BC. Aided by the time-travelling Neldorians, the Carthaginians massacre the Roman army and sack Rome itself several years later. This is the start of Carthaginian domination of the Syrian Sea (OTL Mediterranean). Carthage proved to be a darker, bloodier mirror to OTL Rome and spread its religion, including human sacrifice across the known world. Though it took a long time, Punic culture eventually displaced Hellenic culture with Greek relegated to Greece proper and the Diadochi successor states. With a weakened Italy, the Germanic Cimbri that IOTL were decisively defeated by the Roman legions settled across the peninsula and reduced the Italics to just the region of Veneto.
- In the first few centuries Anno Domini (not that anyone here uses that calendar) Germanic migrations from Central Europe put pressure on the Celts of the Rhine and Gaul. The semi-civilized Celts invaded Carthage, crossing the Straits of Gibraltar and sacking Carthage itself. With the Empire (Hannibal's descendants declared themselves absolute monarchs*) decapitated, Carthaginian civilization collapsed. In the following centuries, the barbarian monarchies that replaced Carthage adopted its culture, creating a Celto-Phoenician cultural sphere from the North Sea to Numidia.
- Though technology advanced, without Greek and Roman tradition, science and philosophy fell by the wayside, and most advancements were the result of tinkering by mechanically-inclined individuals.**
- After centuries of illiteracy and general crapsackyness in which the Huns settled across a swath of Central Europe, Europe got around to colonizing the rest of the world. The European colonial empires were less advanced than IOTL and closer to on parity with the countries they were colonizing. The major conflict of this era saw the Celto-Phoenician western European states oppose the expansion of the Baltic power of Littorn into Central Europe. Tensions came to a head in the Hundred Years War (1813-1905) in which Littorn was finally defeated and expelled from Central Europe. Decades of war took a toll on the colonial empires and allowed for the rise of the "New Powers", formerly weaker indigenous states that invaded European colonies as the Hundred Years War raged.
- Among the New Powers are the Diuqinpucará Dynasty, the descendants of Mapuche horsemen that conquered across the continent of Huy Braseal and puppetized former European colonies of mixed heritage. The !Tsi Empire rose from humble beginnings and bided its time until sweeping down on the manpower-starved Brittysish Cape Colony at the height of the Hundred Years War. Hinduraj is the outgrowth of Gondidesh, a regional power that coopted a number of regional monarchies to create a massive empire. In East Asia, the Ji Dynasty of northern China defeated the southern Ba and Littorn to create a huge, fanatically nationalistic empire.
- North America in this world is the Confederacy of Ynys Yr Afallon, a fractitious jumble of states under a loose federal framework. These states are both indigenous and of Celtic heritage. The Celts first arrived in the New World in the late first millennium AD. The Old World diseases they spread preceded actual colonization by several centuries, which meant that powerful, disease-immune states were waiting to greet European explorers. The most powerful of these states was the Mayan Empire, which survived until the late 18th century AD when it was defeated by the Celts of Tehannach (Texas). Afallon in the present day is sometimes united in name only as pro-Hinduraj, isolationist, and nationalist blocs duke it out in the legislative Council of Suffetes.
- Technologically, this world is several decades behind OTL, but things have been stagnant for approximately three quarters of a century. In the West, everything is shoddy and haphazard. Traffic lights do not even exist*** and things are just generally disorganized. In China and Hinduraj, things are much more organized. The future of the world is in the east.


* - Thank you, John Maddox Roberts.
** - This is pretty much straight out of the text of the story.
*** - Anderson literally said this is because of the important contributions of Gallic culture to this world.

1619223585076.png
 
Is there a rationale behind the alternate physical geography?
Yeah, I have briefly covered it in my first video, but I'm also going to devote a whole video on the subject soon. Basically, in some areas, I got lazy and used alt-geo to benefit the ethnolinguistic groups of certain areas so that they could better weather historical tendencies and developments.

For example, in Australia (Tamirea), an inland sea opening from the north allows for Indic and then Indonesian contact in the Middle Ages, allowing for technology and important cultural transfers to allow the aboriginal peoples enough to withstand later colonization attempts, at least until they regain independence.

The Kerguelen Plateau (what I call Australia) is just OTL Newfoundland transplanted there, because I used the real Newfoundland area as a place for early Norse and then later Basque contact.
 
Very nice, Baconheimer. I've tried to do a couple versions of this myself, although I didn't do as much world-building as you did.

Anderson literally said this is because of the important contributions of Gallic culture to this world.

And by "Gallic", he's including a dig at the French - the protagonist notes what an anarchic mess France supposedly tends to be when they don't have a Louis XIV or Napoleon or Charles De Gaulle to get them pointed in the same direction.
 
I remember seeing around the web a "Africa without colonialism" map that was South-side up and even included Al-Andaluz. Although I remember it being criticised, especially for only considering European colonisation and not Arabic or other ones
Yeah, I've seen one or two maps of this type, but a) I didn't know where to find them and b) from what I recall they just sort of drew lines around historically attested ethnolinguistic groups at the time of colonization, which especially in the Americas is not necessarily reasonable given that there would be hundreds of years of evolution that would doubtlessly lead to some groups expanding at the expense of others, forming empires, etc. etc. Consider, in comparison, the boundaries you would draw with this criteria in Europe, particularly, say, at the time of the fall of the Roman Empire or around the time of Charlemagne; they would not particularly resemble modern or period borders!
 
Not precisely insular, but one in which there is no colonialism. Trade, sure, cultural influence, well, just look at Southeast Asia re: India and Arabia, but no massive conquests and huge transoceanic empires. So, for instance, all of the polities in the Americas are indigenous, even if there might be European or East/Southeast Asian communities in some areas due to trade connections, and these polities might incorporate areas that are beyond the "autocthonic" reach of a group historically (in a similar fashion to how China expanded outside of the North China Plain, for example).

I was just wondering if anyone had looked at such a project, because it seems kind of neat...I can think of a few TLs in the Before 1900 side of the board that do something like this, at least in part, but they're textual and I was hoping for something more visual in nature...

It's really hard to do this with the Americas given the massive disparity in disease resistance: I mean, the OTL Brazilian tera preta cultivators collapsed from European diseases pretty much entirely "off stage" from the European POV. With 90% local die-offs, it would be hard for Chinese or non-Christian European or Arab coastal settlements to _not_ do some expanding inland. You need to have either a very early contact in which you somehow contrive to slow introduction of European technology and animals and diseases to a trickle, but OTOH _do_ introduce them in such a way that they spread Americas-wide before Olde Worlders arrive in force, or profoundly change the history of native America to accelerate the development of local civilization. Or perhaps combine both.
 
It's really hard to do this with the Americas given the massive disparity in disease resistance
I guess I didn't make this sufficiently clear, but the point was an ASB scenario to explore what the impacts of not having colonialism would be, regardless of the fact that it wouldn't be realistic. I am quite aware that it is extremely difficult to come up with a reasonable PoD to avert colonialism, which is why I didn't discuss that.
 
I guess I didn't make this sufficiently clear, but the point was an ASB scenario to explore what the impacts of not having colonialism would be, regardless of the fact that it wouldn't be realistic. I am quite aware that it is extremely difficult to come up with a reasonable PoD to avert colonialism, which is why I didn't discuss that.

Ah, OK. Sorry I misunderstood.
 
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