List of Alternate Presidents and PMs II

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About that... what you did there, I observed it :cool:
wolfram - Sixteen Years Early: Lone Star-3
No, you're obsessed with Texas.

Sixteen Years Early: Lone Star-3

1963-1965: Jack Cox (Republican) [2]
1965-1967: Don Yarborough (Democratic) [3]
1967-1970: Hank Grover ("Bluebonnet" Republican-Conservative Democratic Fusion) [4]
Waggoner Carr ("Stalwart" Democratic)
1970-1971: William Moore ("Stalwart" Democratic)
1971-1979: Frances Farenthold (Democratic) [5]
1979-1982: Price Daniel III (Democratic) [6]
1982-1983: Bob Gammage (Democratic)
1983-1987: Tom Loeffler (Republican) [7]
1987-1991: Jim Hightower (Democratic) [8]
1991-1995: Tom Loeffler (Republican) [9]
1995-1999: Henry Cisneros (Democratic) [10]
1999-2007: John Cornyn III (Republican) [11]
2007-2011: David Dewhurst (Republican) [12]
2011-2012: Dan Patrick (Republican) [13]
2012-2015: Scott Turner (Republican) [14]
2015-: David Dewhurst (Republican) [15]

  1. Lyndon Johnson's heart attack on the campaign trail was tragic. Southern Democrats felt a similar emotion when Hubert Humphrey got nominated, and proceeded to pick another Northern liberal, Scoop Jackson, as his running mate. When Humphrey won despite Southern defections, the feeling was worse. And when they heard Republicans like Barry Goldwater talking about "states' rights"... Well, they felt very different.
  2. Jack Cox was an oil equipment executive and former Democratic state representative who had run against Price Daniel II in the 1960 primaries. In the next two years, he had switched parties - heartened by the victory of John Tower over Jim Wright two years earlier - and begun building up his campaign infrastructure. Price Daniel losing to Don Yarborough (no relation to Ralph) was a short-term setback, but in the long run it helped him portray the Democrats as far-left. Cox's governorship was far less successful - while he was able to work with conservatives in the Legislature, his poor working relationship with the President and his failure to significantly cut spending led to his narrow defeat.
  3. Don Yarborough. Liberal. Pro-labor. Integrationist. Plaintiff's attorney. In other words, everything the Texas establishment hated. His governorship reflected that - not in the sense that he was able to actually do anything to them, but in the sense that he wasn't actually able to do much of anything.
  4. Hank Grover was the beneficiary of a formalized version of the Cox coalition. That, in effect, meant that the Republicans agreed to leave certain government programs alone, while the Democrats agreed not to interfere with Republican fiscal conservatism. Grover's Catholicism and personal flaws - then-Texas Secretary of State Ernest Angelo said later that Grover was "his own worst enemy. He couldn't get along, let personal things interfere in the political realm." - hurt him, but not enough to allow Tom Bass to win the Governorship. His next term, however, was dominated by a number of scandals - most notably the Sharpstown scandal. As a result, although there was no evidence of his personal involvement, Grover resigned, and was replaced by his Lieutenant Governor - who was promptly indicted, and resigned in favor of the "Bull of the Brazos", who the Senate had put forward to fill Carr's empty seat. Moore mostly stood pat, did nothing - not a tough job when your entire term is after sine die - and waited for the inevitable reformist landslide.
  5. Frances Farenthold was the most prominent of the anti-Grover reformists, the so-called "Dirty Thirty". She won the nomination of the Democratic Party - this time the people who had walked out of the 1968 state convention in support of Grover just didn't bother showing up - and defeated reformist Republican Fred Agnich by just short of ten points. Hers was a radical administration - term limits and four-year terms for Governors, expanded state health insurance, regulations on pollution and monopoly, and ethics legislation stronger than any seen before. The Republicans - and what Conservative Democrats there still were - were up in arms, but Farenthold was broadly popular, and the opposition was bitterly divided in recriminations over the Grover years.
  6. Price Daniel III was the son of a Governor and the great-great-great-grandson of Sam Houston. He had all of the political convictions of his predecessor, but despite four years as Lieutenant Governor, still didn't understand how to work with the Legislature. His governorship was defined, politically, by the failed second Constitutional Convention. Personally, on the other hand, it was largely defined by his rocky marriage to Vickie Moore, who he cut out of his will shortly after losing the 1982 election. Several days later, he was found dead, and Vickie Moore was seen running from the Governor's mansion.
  7. Tom Loeffler was the Deputy Secretary of Commerce under President Bartlett. His tenure was quiet and low-profile, cutting spending and increasing drug penalties with the aid of Lieutenant Governor Tom Craddick. The 1980s oil glut and President Bartlett's unpopularity ensured him a narrow defeat.
  8. Jim Hightower was the unabashedly liberal Agriculture Commissioner who rode a populist wave to the Governor's Mansion. As Governor, though, his autocratic style and clashes with other elected officials - including his handpicked replacement as Agriculture Commissioner, Lena Guerrero - alienated allies and led to the return of his predecessor.
  9. Former Governor Loeffler won a rematch election in 1990. But just as Hightower's struggles with Democrats sunk his Governorship, Loeffler's clashes with conservatives in his own party, like former Lieutenant Governor and later primary challenger Tom Craddick and State House Speaker Dick Armey, defined his. And when it came time to face the Democrats, the wonkish Loeffler couldn't compete against the charming, telegenic, young, minority Mayor.
  10. Henry Cisneros was the first non-Anglo Mayor of San Antonio since 1842, and almost universally considered one of the most effective mayors in the country. Having left elected politics in 1989 to deal with his son's heart condition, Cisneros almost refused to run for Governor, but was convinced to do so after weeks of phone calls. His tenure saw improvements in housing, labor regulations, and education funding, but after the revelation that he had been paying hush money to his former mistress, he decided not to run for a second term.
  11. Texas Supreme Court Justice John Cornyn III was, like Loeffler, a pro-bidness moderate. Unlike Loeffler, however, he was willing and able to throw bones to the growing "Minutemen" movement of socially conservative, anti-establishment, Republicans. As Governor, Cornyn slashed taxes, reduced the size of the Texas Health Agency, banned abortion in virtually every circumstance, and deregulated state antitrust enforcement. While many Texans considered him a far-right radical, the rise in oil prices as a result of the Gulf War ensured his re-election.
  12. David Dewhurst, millionaire oilman and Lieutenant Governor, won the 2006 election handily. Friends have reported that he wishes that election had gone differently. After Hurricane Calvin hit Texas in 2007, causing destruction from South Padre Island to Harlingen, Dewhurst's response was widely seen as lackluster and contrasted with the more effective response by FEMA. At the same time, Dewhurst's decision to order THA to comply with Doe v. Cruz, as well as his signing of HB 12 - derided as "free tuition for illegals" - led to criticism from his party's right wing. In the end, he lost the primary to a charismatic radio host from Houston, despite a number of interesting advertisements.
  13. Dan Patrick was the kind of hard-right ideologue talk radio was notorious for. Despite never having held public office, his staunch opposition to President Lewis's "radical liberal agenda" - opposition that, to some, skirted the edges of outright racism - won him fans. And when moderate Republican candidate Will Romney needed to balance the ticket, Dan Patrick was the first and last person he turned to.
  14. Scott Turner, the former NFL player who won a seat in the State House in 2006, was not the best-regarded Lieutenant Governor. His working relationship with the Senate was hardly ideal, with many ascribing that to inexperience with Senate traditions, ideological conflicts, or simple racism. But Turner's tenure as Governor was better-regarded - he was better able to make his case to the public, and he consequently came out ahead in his battles with the Legislature. However, when the Railroad Commission became embroiled in a price-fixing scandal, Turner voluntarily decided not to run for a second term.
  15. David Dewhurst had had a good four years. After leaving the Governorship, he went into the private sector, earning millions of dollars as CEO of oil company InterNorth. When Scott Turner decided not to run for reelection - he would later become NFL Commissioner - Dewhurst's millions and political experience made him the natural choice. As of 2017, Dewhurst's second term seems to be going not unlike his first, with his conflicts with Speaker Matt Schaefer driving news cycles in 2015 and 2017. As the Legislature prepares for a special session over school finance, the eyes of Texas are upon them...
dw93 - First comes three consecutive two termers. Then comes three consecutive one termers. What Comes Next?
First comes three consecutive two termers. Then comes three consecutive one termers. What Comes Next?:

42. Bill Clinton / Al Gore (Democratic): 1993-2001

George W. Bush / Dick Cheney (Republican): 2001-2009

44. Barack Obama / Joe Biden (Democratic): 2009-2017

45. Donald Trump / Mike Pence (Republican): 2017-2021
Def. 2016: Hillary Clinton / Tim Kaine (Democratic)

46. Joe Biden / Kamala Harris (Democratic): 2021-2025
Def. 2020: Donald Trump / Mike Pence (Republican)

47. Paul Ryan / Tom Cotton (Republican): 2025-2029
Def. 2024: Kamala Harris / Joe Kennedy (Democratic)

48. Joaquin Castro / Tim Ryan (Democratic): 2029-????
Def. 2028: Paul Ryan / Tom Cotton (Republican)

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Quaid-e-Azam - Ottoman Empire
The POD here is that the Ottoman Empire decides not to join World War one. While the Ottoman Empire had a de facto alliance with Germany, but with the resentment against Germany’s other allies, Austria-Hungary and Bulgaria, is more present. The allied powers have more resources as they don’t have to fight the Ottomans. A day after Mehmed V died, Germany had surrendered.

Mehmed VI is remembered as the sultan who, along with the three Pashas, reformed the title of Grand Vizier. In 1919, Ismail Enver Pasha was appointed Grand Vizier. The Committee of Union and Progress amended the Constitution to have the Grand Vizier be elected by the Ottoman People, to make the title of Grand Vizier be like the Ottoman version of a “prime minister”.

Rampant electoral fraud had kept the CUP in power for over a decade. With Germany being weakened, the Ottoman Empire had no real power to ally itself to. The CUP had idealized Japan, and had wanted to copy its model. An alliance between the Ottoman Empire and Japan was formed in 1925, and had lasted until 1928, when Japan, under a new prime minister, decided that the alliance was unnecessary.

On October 29th, 1929, the Stock market crashed, causing the Great Depression. While the Ottoman Empire did not receive the effects that the US had, growth nonetheless had stopped. The Freedom and Accord party, who had been the main opposition to the CUP since the 1910s, saw this as the opportunity to finally win. Despite the best efforts of CUP goons, the Freedom and Accord party won, by a majority of just two seats.

In 1932 the Ottoman Empire’s main ally in the Arabian peninsula, Jabal Shammar, was fighting a war with the Saud tribe, which had emerged pretty strong. Ottoman intervention led to the Saud tribe being defeated, and the Emirate of Jabal Shammar being the dominant Arab country (for the time)

While the CUP lost, they were still strong. It had ties to the military, and with it, the opportunity to commit a coup. On May 19th, 1933, the coup was carried out. Bolukbasi, like Nazim Pasha before him, was shot by members of the CUP. Ismail Enver Pasha was made Grand Vizier once more, and the first thing he did was ban the Freedom and Accord Party.

The coup was condemned by the League of Nations, and it further isolated the Ottomans. To add insult to injury, the KPD won the German elections. The CUP was extremely anti-communist, and as such refused to ally with the Germans. Not like Germany wanted an alliance.

But now without Germany, what do the Ottomans have? It is not like the UK or France would ally them. The Ottomans sent diplomats to Rome in hopes of an alliance, and Ismail Enver Pasha met with Roberto Farinacci one time. However, any possibility of an alliance was shot down after the June 23rd incident. While Italy was invading Albania, some Italian troops accidentally attacked the Ottoman embassy in Tirana. Diplomatic missions stopped a possible war, but relations between the two were shaken.

The June 23rd incident started the Ottoman period of Isolation. With no allies, or enemies, the Ottomans had no reason to intervene in global affairs. Even during the Second Grand war between the UK, France, the US and Italy against the “Red Alliance” of Germany, the USSR and Spain (a tired old concept, I know) the Ottomans refused to help out either side, even though the government sympathized with the UK and it’s allies.

1944 is known as the year of three sultans. When Abdulmecid II died on July 2nd, 1944, the succession went to his first cousin once removed, Mehmed VI’s son, Mehmed. Mehmed VII, however, died on August 23rd. Mehmed VII never had any sons, and as such the title of sultan went to Abdulmecid II’s son, Omer[1].

By 1949 Enver Pasha’s mental health was deteriorating, and as such the military began to gain power in the government, with Enver Pasha being a figurehead.

In the meantime, the ideology of Arab nationalism had been growing, with nationalists winning local races. Armenian nationalism had also been growing in Armenian majority areas of the empire. The cause of Armenian nationalism was strengthened after the independence of Armenia following the Second Grand War.

On September 15th, 1954, Enver Pasha had finally died. While they were candidates for the title of Grand Vizier, none of them pleased the military. Because of this, the military decided to seize power. The seizure of power caused turmoil in the Ottoman empire. Arab and Armenian nationalists saw the coup as their time to strike and began to rebel. Liberal Turks also rebelled against the government. It was hard for the Ottoman government to keep order, and as such the destruction of the empire was seen as inevitable.

To add insult to injury, Greece, using reports of Ottoman mistreatment of the Greek population, declared war on the Ottoman Empire. By March of 1955, the Ottoman army was nonexistent. Omer I abdicated the throne and fled to Berlin. Erdelhun shot himself.

The Arab nationalists eventually formed the Kingdom of Arabia, making Hussein Hashemite the king. The Kurdish areas of the Ottomans not under the Kingdom of Arabia had also declared independence. Armenia annexed the places Armenian nationalists had controlled.

The liberal elements of the army under Cemal Gursel abolished the Ottoman Empire and formed the Federal Republic of Turkey. They then focused their efforts on fighting the Greeks. Eventually on September 18th a peace treaty was signed, in where Greece would take parts of the Catalca peninsula, but not take Constantinople.

1909-1918: Mehmed V (Osmanoglu)
1918-1926: Mehmed VI (Osmanoglu)
1926-1944: Abdulmecid II (Osmanoglu)
1944: Mehmed VII (Osmanoglu)
1944-1955: Omer I (Osmanoglu)

Dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.

Grand Viziers of the Ottoman Empire

1920-1931: Ismail Enver Pasha (Committee of Union and Progress)
1920: Damat Ferid Pasha (Freedom and Accord)
1923: Riza Tevfik Bolukbasi (Freedom and Accord)
1927: Riza Tevfik Bolukbasi (Freedom and Accord)

1931-1933: Riza Tevfik Bolukbasi (Freedom and Accord)
1931: Ismail Enver Pasha (Committee of Union and Progress)
1933-1954: Ismail Enver Pasha (Committee of Union and Progress)
1937: Unopposed
1942: Unopposed
1947: Unopposed
1952: Unopposed

1954-1955: Rüştü Erdelhun (Military)
Dissolution of the Ottoman Empire

[1]-The reversal of death dates was intentional

I have another Ottoman list, which is very implausible, though it was never meant to be realistic. It is set on the same universe as this. If enough people are interested I may post it.


An interesting list certainly, though I'm surprised the Ottomans never went for the Empire Enver Pasha always seemed to dream was for the taking in Central Asia.
Based on my much earlier "In Unity Security" (and its American sequel) of which a more complete version can be found in my test thread (here) this is a list of British leaders in that chaotic and radically different universe! (Will answer questions, though it should mostly be self-explanatory)!


Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom;

1919-1922: Arthur Henderson (Labour)

1919: (Coalition with National) def - David Lloyd George (National Government), Sir Richard Cooper (National), H.H. Asquith (Liberal)
1922-1926: Austen Chamberlain (Centre)
1922: (Coalition with Liberals) def - Arthur Henderson (Labour), Sir Richard Cooper (National), Richard Haldane (Liberal), Noel Pemberton-Belling (Vigilante)
1924: STV Plebiscite: Yes

1926-1929: Ramsay MacDonald (Labour)
1926: (Popular Front Coalition with Liberals and Communists) def - George Curzon (National), Austen Chamberlain (Centre), Noel Pemberton-Billing (Vigilante), Reginald McKenna (Liberal), Albert Inkpin (Communist)
1929-1937: Henry Petty Fitzmaurice (Centre)
1929: (National Government with National, "Government" Labour and Liberals) def - James Maxton (Independent Labour-Communist Popular Front), William Joynson-Hicks (National), Oswald Mosley (Modernist), Phillip Snowden ("Government" Labour), Reginald McKenna (Liberal)
1933: (National Government with National, "Government" Labour and Liberals) def - Lewis Silkin (Independent Labour-Communist Popular Front), William Joynson-Hicks (National), Oswald Mosley (New), Phillip Snowden ("Government" Labour), Winston Churchill (Liberal)

1937-1937: James Maxton (Labour)
1937: (Popular Front Coalition with Communists and Continuity ILP) def - Oswald Mosley (New), Rowland Hunt (National), Rhys Hopkins Morris (Liberal), Malcolm MacDonald (Progressive), Neville Chamberlain (Centre)
1937-1938: Oswald Mosley (New)
1937: (Patriotic Front with National and Centre Backed by Military Forces) def - James Maxton (Labour-Communist-ILP Popular Front), T.S. Elliot (National), David Lloyd George (Progressive Liberal Alliance), Neville Chamberlain (Centre), Rhys Hopkins Morris (Continuity "Classical" Liberal)

First Minister of the Imperial Federation;

1938-1945: Oswald Mosley (New)

1938: National Ministerial Plebiscite: Yes
1943: National Ministerial Plebiscite: Yes

1945-1947: Harold Nicolson (New backed by Military/Industrialist Junta)

Prime Minister of the Union of Great Britain;

1947-1948: Dwight Eisenhower (Non-Partisan leading UN Military Transition)
1948-1958: Gwilym Lloyd-George (Progressive Conservative)

1948: (Majority) def - Ernest Bevin (SDP), John Simon (Democratic), Konni Zilliacus (Socialist)
1952: (Grand Coalition with SDP) def - Evan Durbin (SDP), Clement Davies (Democrats), Michael Foot (Socialist)
1956: (Coalition with the Democrats) def - Anthony Crosland (SDP), Michael Foot (Socialist), David Renton (Democrats), Hastings Russel (Social Credit)
1958-19---: Bob Boothby (Progressive Conservative-Democratic Coalition)
AlfieJ - Footloose
Footloose: Michael Foot goes over Darlington

1976 - 1979: James Callaghan (Labour)
1979 - 1985: Margaret Thatcher (Conservative)
(Majority) 1979: James Callaghan (Labour), David Steel (Liberal)
(Minority with Ulster Unionist and "Independent" Social Democratic) 1983: Tony Benn (Labour), Roy Jenkins/David Steel (SDP-Liberal Alliance)

1985 - 1986: Geoffrey Howe (Conservative Minority with Ulster Unionist and "Independent" Social Democratic)
1986 - 1994: Tony Benn (Labour)
(Majority) 1986: Geoffrey Howe (Conservative), Shirley Williams/David Penhaligon (Democratic Alliance), David Owen (Social Democratic)
(Majority) 1990: Douglas Hurd (Conservative), David Penhaligon (Democratic Alliance), David Owen (Social Democratic)

1994 - 1995: Michael Meacher (Labour)
(Coalition with Democratic Alliance) 1994: Michael Heseltine (Conservative), Simon Hughes (Democratic Alliance)
1995 - 2000: Michael Heseltine (Conservative)
(Majority) 1995: Michael Meacher (Labour), Simon Hughes (Democratic Alliance)
2000 - 2003: Michael Meacher (Labour)
(Majority) 2000: Ken Clarke (Conservative), Paul Holmes (Democratic Alliance)

1976 - 1980: James Callaghan
1976: Michael Foot, Roy Jenkins, Tony Benn, Dennis Healey, Anthony Crosland
1980 - 1983: Michael Foot
1980: Dennis Healey, John Silkin, Peter Shore
1983 - 1994: Tony Benn
1983: Dennis Healey, Neil Kinnock, Peter Shore
1984: Gerald Kaufman, Frank Field

1994 - 2003: Michael Meacher
1994: Jack Straw, Frank Dobson, Jo Richardson*
1999: Vince Cable
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