License built copy?

a. Who actually designed the Foch?
b. Who actually designed the WASP?

c. And why would the USN design a CV to a requirement they do not want or need?
The CVV was to cost $1.5 billion, that is not cheap.

The US Government and Congress decides what the USN requirements are, they go through the budget items line by line, and they decided in the mid 70s that they didn't want to spend over $2 billion on a carrier. I'm not going to argue the rights and wrongs, I think the USS America and JFK should have been nukes because nuke supercarriers are the best in the long run, but if licence production is a way to solve problems then the British had a cheap CVV designed and ready to go.
 
The USN doesn't always get what it wants, if it did the USS American and JFK would both be nuke powered and the massive Midway refit would have worked out better and cheaper for example. I don't know about 'sabotage' as much as loading up the ship so that it becomes so expensive that a supercarrier is a better deal.




Big carriers represent better value for money and bang for the buck, that's why the British wanted the 54,000t CVA01 not one of the smaller study options. But that doesn't make it cheap.

However when it comes to designing a medium sized fleet carrier I think the British would be able to design a cheaper ship than the Americans simply because the Americans have more cash and that comes out in their design philosophy. The CVV cost something like $1.5 billion, I doubt contemporary CVA03 would cost ~700 million pounds.
24 sunk by Germany, 37 by Italy, and 4 by Japan = 65 by opfor records. RN lists 76 admitted lost and overdue. 65 + 9 mechanicals = 74. The RN either cannot add or their statistics and causes of loss are worthless. Your choice, but I bank on RN errors.

Now I will ENDIT.

McP.
you are not the moderator, so no.

So the no cause too loss, so what. There is none for USS Scorpion. The boat failed to return, possible cause unknown.

Note, logs note enemy action or mines. Without evidence during attack, it’s very unlike ASW effort. It’s not 9 mech, BTW

and records of sub operations losses for USN, IJN, KM and MM are all perfect?

and we all know how correct OPFOR claims are, not.
 
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you are not the moderator, so no.

So the no cause to loss, so what. There is none for USS Scorpion. The boat failed to return, possible cause unknown.

Note, logs note enemy action or mines. Without evidence during attack, it’s very unlike ASW effort

and records of sub operations losses for USN, IJN, KM and MM are all perfect?

and we all know how correct OPFOR claims are, not.
Wasn't the Scorpion lost to a H2O2 torpedo accident?
The US had an H2O2 torp in service at the time, the Mk 16.
And based on what happened to the Kursk, those things are quite fickle.
Any bit of rough handling and you've just signed your death sentence.
 
Wasn't the Scorpion lost to a H2O2 torpedo accident?
The US had an H2O2 torp in service at the time, the Mk 16.
And based on what happened to the Kursk, those things are quite fickle.
Any bit of rough handling and you've just signed your death sentence.
Probably.

but no one truly knows for sure.
 
This is what happened to the USS Scorpion - Americas ...

You take your best guess, and act.

There has been no Kursk-like disaster in the USN since. Lesson learned? Maybe your guess based on the evidence you have was correct.

Hint: HMS Thetis and INS Dakar; flood forward, unable to recover trim and surface. Why? We KNOW what happened to Thetis.
HMS Thetis sank after opening a 2 foot odd diameter torpedo tube to the sea (she had just come out of the yard and the bleed valve had been filled with paint allowing the crew to think that the tube was not open to the sea )

All Commonwealth subs subsequently had a Thetis clip installed on all tubes preventing the inner torpedo tube doors from opening more than a fraction of an inch (a technical error in the Film Ice Station Zebra when the sub very nearly sinks after the bleed valve was sabotaged and the crew opens the tube - impossible to happen as they would have had a Thetis clip mechanically preventing the door from opening under water pressure)

And flooding of the Thetis forward torpedo room would be unrecoverable on any 1939 sub

A similar thing happened to USS Squalus about a week before Thetis sank (in that case failed induction value flooded the after torpedo room and pretty much the entire aft part of the ship) unlike Thetis the Squalus was with another sub so her location was know - and also she grounded on an even keel allowing more rapid location and recovery using a rescue bell something that was impossible with Thetis.
 
All Commonwealth subs subsequently had a Thetis clip installed on all tubes preventing the inner torpedo tube doors from opening more than a fraction of an inch
Something forward mechanical failed on INS Dakar. We cannot assume that a travel leak path forward was completely idiot-proofed. At 50 meters, a fraction of an inch is all that is needed.

A similar thing happened to USS Squalus about a week before Thetis sank (in that case failed induction value flooded the after torpedo room and pretty much the entire aft part of the ship) unlike Thetis the Squalus was with another sub so her location was know - and also she grounded on an even keel allowing more rapid location and recovery using a rescue bell something that was impossible with Thetis.
The first SUBSAFE program was the result. Main induction was redesigned as was the "Christmas Tree".
 
Something forward mechanical failed on INS Dakar. We cannot assume that a travel leak path forward was completely idiot-proofed. At 50 meters, a fraction of an inch is all that is needed.



The first SUBSAFE program was the result. Main induction was redesigned as was the "Christmas Tree".
The Royal Navy hasn't lost a submarine since 1951, HMS Affray. (The USN has managed to lose 3 since then.)
4 submarines were lost just in 1968, including USS Scorpion. INS Dakar, Minerve, and K-129.
No exact cause has officially been given for any of them.
 
INS Dakar was a former RN sub. Speculation is that something happened mechanically that caused leaks forward. Upholders when the Canadians got them were not safe AT ALL
The Upholders had a few mechanical problems having been parked up awaiting a buyer for several years. I assume US subs could cope better with having a couple of tons of sea water dumped onto the electrics through an open hatch?
 
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The Royal Navy hasn't lost a submarine since 1951, HMS Affray. (The USN has managed to lose 3 since then.)
4 submarines were lost just in 1968, including USS Scorpion. INS Dakar, Minerve, and K-129.
No exact cause has officially been given for any of them.
so at the end of the day, all the discussion above is guessing

back to the 2 outstanding losses
There is not 9 mech but 4, and 5 unknowns.
11 losses not given to enemy action included the 5 unknowns, 4 mech and 2...?

(a) Includes accidental explosion and fire, collision with British or Allied ships, deliberately expended, and marine loss from grounding or weather
 
When a machine fails, it IS a mechanical.
as already said

You are failing to read your own reference

(a) Includes accidental explosion and fire, collision with British or Allied ships, deliberately expended, and marine loss from grounding or weather

Fratricide, shuttling, etc is not mechanical
 
Human error, as in not understanding your machine and the environment in which it operates is training and technical incompetence.
 
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