Didn't mean that the Revolution or something much like it will necessarily be averted just that its course is obviously going to be utterly different without Napoleon. That transforms all of Europe instead of playing on the margins as we've done so far.
King Theodore's Corsica
- Thread starter Carp
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Didn't mean that the Revolution or something much like it will necessarily be averted just that its course is obviously going to be utterly different without Napoleon. That transforms all of Europe instead of playing on the margins as we've done so far.
The bloodless nature of the conquest also nicely aids Corsica in shedding the bloodthirsty image the Rebels acquired at the Fall of Bastia. Hardly enough to dispel it entirely, but at least, dilute it significantly.
Md139115
Banned
On the credit card! Always on the credit card! And there's only 15 years between that and their entry in the American Revolution! Five more years on the Credit Card! We'll figure out a way to pay it all later!
The magic of borrowing, of course.
The WotAS cost France about one billion livres, compared to somewhere between 1.8 and 2 billion livres for the SYW and 1.3 billion livres for the AWI. An attempt was made after the WotAS to address France's war debt by issuing bonds and implementing a new permanent tax called the vingtième, which was to apply even to nobles and clergy, but - as you might imagine - stiff resistance from the nobles and clergy limited its effectiveness. France entered the SYW with some 0.8-1.3 billion livres in debt (I've seen different numbers).
People often point to the SYW or AWI as when the French debt cascade leading to the Revolution got started, and it's true that these wars were more costly than the WotAS. In retrospect, however, the downhill slide towards insolvency starts with the WotAS. Prior to the war, France was on a decent footing - sure, the fiscal system was antiquated and horribly inefficient, but Fleury had (mostly) kept France out of expensive wars and Controller-General Philibert Orry actually managed to balance the budget in 1740. But then there was the WotAS debt, and then the SYW debt, and then the AWI debt, with each just added on top of the last. It was the WotAS which first revealed that, as mighty as France was, the country did not have a fiscal system that could adequately fund its military ambitions.
"Maltese Corsica" was an alternative to this TL which I considered, but it ultimately just didn't seem plausible. Grandmaster Manuel Pinto de Fonseca made several attempts to gain Corsica for himself, but it was the same sort of ineffective scheming that Franz Stefan tried - sending an agent, making big promises, handing out some cash, but ultimately just trusting in the ability of the Corsicans to organize themselves and dutifully prepare the kingdom for their foreign king-in-waiting. Say what you will about Theodore, but at least he actually went to Corsica, handed out some guns, and said "alright, let's fight a war."
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Interesting, why was that?
Would that have become a sort of "elective" monarchy that went to whoever was grandmaster at the moment, or do was he trying to make a secular principality for himself?
If I had to guess, it’s because Carlo Emanuele liked him and the two of them tended to agree on strategy. They had fought together in the 1745 campaign, during which Browne worked well with the king and demonstrated that he was the most dynamic senior Austrian commander in Italy. Towards the end of the war, Browne was so embarrassed by Vienna’s failure to support a Sardinian offensive that he actually dispatched some of his troops to Carlo Emanuele’s command without permission, convinced that Carlo Emanuele’s strategy was better than Vienna’s.
So when the British strong-armed him into invading Provence, Carlo Emanuele responded “fine, but give me von Browne” - someone he had worked with before, whose skills he respected, and who tended to agree with him on strategy. Perhaps for the first time in the Italian war thus far, a multinational army will be led by leaders who are competent, don’t hate each other, and actually agree on things.
Although I don’t know Fonseca’s exact plan, my understanding is that the proposal was for Corsica to be annexed to the Hospitaller state, not given to Fonseca personally. Presumably the royal crown would pass from one grandmaster to the next in the exact same way it passed from one Doge of Genoa to the next.
As a tangentially related bit of trivia, Theodore was actually a Teutonic Knight himself, having been inducted back in the 1710s; his uncle was the commander of the Teutonic Order in Cologne. He left the order under a cloud, however, and probably wasn’t legitimately eligible for membership anyway, as given the issue with the parentage of Theodore’s mother he definitely didn’t have the eight generations of pure nobility the Order demanded.
Ah, it is sure it will fail then, probably foiled by an army led by bickering, incompetent buffoons.
On an unrelated note, I have been taking a look at some maps of the region as Frederick's invasion unfolded, and I can't help but notice that his purpoted intention of anexing northern Bohemia seem to make little sense: the region of Bohemia proper is a clearly geographycally delimited "square" of territory out of which one would be hard pressed to carve a partial border. Do you have any idea on did Prussia intend on dealing with that had the campaing met with more success?
The most specific information I have on the Prussian claim states that Frederick wanted Bohemia north of the Elbe and the regions of Kolin and Pardubice south of the Elbe, which just on the basis of me eyeballing it seems like somewhere between a quarter and a third of Bohemia. (He also intended on taking the remainder of Austrian Silesia which hadn't been ceded the first time around.) There's not really any clear borders there. But I don't know why the lack of a well-defined geographical border would deter Frederick, given that Prussia hardly had any other well-defined geographical borders; we are, after all, talking about a state composed of various non-contiguous pieces extending from Lithuania to the Rhine. As with Sparta, the walls of Prussia were its soldiers.
So, can France sue for an immediate status quo ante bellum peace on account of the Austrians and Sardinians clearly cheating?
Bison
Banned
I'm in the process of rereading parts of the timeline, there's just so much excellent content I hardly remember all of the story so far. I really enjoy the battle maps from the eariler updates (they need a bit more .jpeg, a little hard to make out the text). I kind of miss them, and would encourage you to include them again, that is if we get any more major battles in Corsica, for which its probably too late. Secondly, you were gonna edit out the secondary PoD of Richard Ortega avoiding capture, but you probably forgot about it. I'm left incredibly curious as to what chsnges you will make to in regards to Napoleon.
Those are fun, but they take a fair amount of work (as well as a good topographical map to use as a base, which I have for Corsica but not necessarily for everything else). I've tended to avoid getting into that much detail on continental battles which involve much more complicated orders of battle and maneuvers - I figure the TL is already rather long as it stands. But I will keep that in mind if we have more engagements on Corsica (probably not in this war, but you never know).
As far as making out the text goes - This may be a silly question, but did you click on them? Those battle map images should be just thumbnails, and link to larger pictures. If any of my links are broken let me know.
Not really forgot, just... never got around to it. I'll try to change that.
Bison
Banned
Still reading, and only at the the point of Genoese retreat from Corti and the interior after nearly two days of non-stop reading. Random, ridiculous thought - would llamas be useful as a beast of burden more suited than the mule for he mountainous regions of Corsica? Also, how do you pronounce Ajaccio in Italian/Corsican? In French you say it like Ažaxiò. Would it be Ayàchio? ( ' for emphasis ) Will Corsica just be speaking standard Italian once language becomes a factor due to literacy. I assume, Italian is the language Theodore uses to communicate with the Corsicans. How proficient is he? How strong is his accent. Do you know which languages he spoke and how proficient he was in them. Id say French/Francien and the Rhineland dialect of German. What was standard German at the time (Hochdeutsch), was it dominant in the Rhineland. I know today the purest German is spoken around Lower Saxony, but was this standard at the time? Was there even a standard Dialect? Now, I assume though not certainly he also spoke Italian and Spanish, given his service in both countries. What about dutch? Hes had extensivd contact with the Netherlands, from Ripperda, to his Dutch horsrboy and the investment syndicate. Perhaps, he will invite Dutch and Flemish immigrants, probably Germans too, given the probably soon seven years war. He probably spoke Greek, too, so that could engrace him with some Greeks fleeing from Ottoman oppresion.
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Bison
Banned
This is something Ive always admired in 18th century lesser nobility, and actually somewhat miss in today's middle class. While we have systematic approaches to grammar, vocabulary, etc., an internatiojal endless supply of educational material, and a taxpayer funded education system, language knowledge and general intellectual thought was superior among the upper middle class of then to the upper middle class of today (knowledge if fundamental literature, education in philosophy, history, and especially language) In Russian we theres a saying - 'the boundaries of my language are the boundaries of my world' and theres much truth to that. Knowledge of another language differrent in structure and vocabulary is a very significant boost to general intellegence and language barriers are a very powerful barrier.
Nonetheless, thats very impressive, especially if means fluent in common as well as literary manner and a not tok thick accent. Also it deserves to be noted thst some of these languages are relatively unrelated to each other and come from three to four different language families. I am surprised at thw lack of Dutch, though.
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As far as languages go, Theodore was multilingual from the start - as a boy he alternated between the house of his German uncle and that of his French stepfather, Mr. Marneau. Despite being notionally “a German,” he was just as fluent in French as German and probably used French more often. Being bilingual from childhood is probably part of the reason he was so good with languages.
Theodore learned Latin and Greek at the Jesuit school he attended, and when he was a page to the Duchess of Orleans at Versailles he learned Italian from the court tutors. He eventually started working as an agent for the Swedes, and learned Swedish well enough that he could apparently pass for a Swede abroad. He was posted as a spy in London and lived there for some years, becoming fluent in English. Later he had a colonelcy in Spain where he picked up Spanish (assuming he had not already learned it somewhere else along the way). Although I guess I didn’t mention Dutch in the list of languages I posted earlier, that’s an oversight - he certainly knew Dutch. He spent a lot of time in Amsterdam and the Hague, was often on Dutch ships, and had many friends and contacts in Dutch government and society. Given how easily he picked up other tongues it seems almost impossible that with all that time spent in the Netherlands he wouldn’t have learned the language.
He had partial knowledge of a few other languages. During his time as a Swedish agent he was reportedly involved in negotiations between Sweden and Russia and probably knew some Russian, but given that he never set foot in Russia nor had much occasion to use the language later in life I’m not sure how competent he would have been in the 1740s. Theodore spent some time in Lisbon and may have known some Portuguese. His Moroccan friend Hamet appears to have taught him some Arabic for use in reading alchemical texts in that language, and we know that his good friend Ripperda knew Arabic, but whether Theodore knew enough to hold a conversation is unclear. He was also involved with a number of Jewish alchemists and mystics who did Kabbalic study and may have known some Hebrew.
Theodore is probably about as fluent in Italian as you can get without being a native speaker. He served as a spy in Rome, spent some time working at the Medici court in Tuscany, and (ITTL) reigned on Corsica for the better part of a decade. He may have a mild accent, but if he does it’s probably a French accent given that he learned Italian from a tutor at the French court. The Corsicans have their own dialect of Italian, but it’s easily understood by a standard Italian speaker. The Corsicans might have a few words or phrases that are new to him and his courtly Italian, but otherwise he can easily communicate with of his subjects.
Although Theodore did know Greek, I don’t know whether the sort of Greek taught in a Jesuit school (presumably the Koine Greek of the Bible?) would enable him to hold a conversation with a Greco-Corsican speaking in an 18th century Maniot dialect. Someone with more knowledge of the Greek language would have to tackle that question.
I don’t really know anything about llamas, but my instinct is that importing American livestock is probably not the most economical solution to transport problems. The Corsicans already have their own distinct breed of donkey (from which their mules are made) which still exists today. What Corsica really needs is a road network suitable for wagons and carriages, as its roads are almost all just narrow mule-tracks. Naturally a railroad would be helpful as well, but that will have to wait for at least another century.
The name of the city in the Late Middle Ages was Aiazo, and the Early Modern Period it was Addiazzo in Italian or La Hiace in French, although both of those spellings were still in use in the 18th century. The Genoese spelling was Ajaccio, but it was pronounced and sometimes spelled Aiaccio, and the Corsicans spelled it Aiacciu or occasionally Aghjacciu. ITTL the city’s name will probably stay Ajaccio or perhaps be changed to Aiaccio, but either way I suspect it will indeed be pronounced like “ayachio” and definitely not like the modern French pronunciation.
Theodore learned Latin and Greek at the Jesuit school he attended, and when he was a page to the Duchess of Orleans at Versailles he learned Italian from the court tutors. He eventually started working as an agent for the Swedes, and learned Swedish well enough that he could apparently pass for a Swede abroad. He was posted as a spy in London and lived there for some years, becoming fluent in English. Later he had a colonelcy in Spain where he picked up Spanish (assuming he had not already learned it somewhere else along the way). Although I guess I didn’t mention Dutch in the list of languages I posted earlier, that’s an oversight - he certainly knew Dutch. He spent a lot of time in Amsterdam and the Hague, was often on Dutch ships, and had many friends and contacts in Dutch government and society. Given how easily he picked up other tongues it seems almost impossible that with all that time spent in the Netherlands he wouldn’t have learned the language.
He had partial knowledge of a few other languages. During his time as a Swedish agent he was reportedly involved in negotiations between Sweden and Russia and probably knew some Russian, but given that he never set foot in Russia nor had much occasion to use the language later in life I’m not sure how competent he would have been in the 1740s. Theodore spent some time in Lisbon and may have known some Portuguese. His Moroccan friend Hamet appears to have taught him some Arabic for use in reading alchemical texts in that language, and we know that his good friend Ripperda knew Arabic, but whether Theodore knew enough to hold a conversation is unclear. He was also involved with a number of Jewish alchemists and mystics who did Kabbalic study and may have known some Hebrew.
Theodore is probably about as fluent in Italian as you can get without being a native speaker. He served as a spy in Rome, spent some time working at the Medici court in Tuscany, and (ITTL) reigned on Corsica for the better part of a decade. He may have a mild accent, but if he does it’s probably a French accent given that he learned Italian from a tutor at the French court. The Corsicans have their own dialect of Italian, but it’s easily understood by a standard Italian speaker. The Corsicans might have a few words or phrases that are new to him and his courtly Italian, but otherwise he can easily communicate with of his subjects.
Although Theodore did know Greek, I don’t know whether the sort of Greek taught in a Jesuit school (presumably the Koine Greek of the Bible?) would enable him to hold a conversation with a Greco-Corsican speaking in an 18th century Maniot dialect. Someone with more knowledge of the Greek language would have to tackle that question.
I don’t really know anything about llamas, but my instinct is that importing American livestock is probably not the most economical solution to transport problems. The Corsicans already have their own distinct breed of donkey (from which their mules are made) which still exists today. What Corsica really needs is a road network suitable for wagons and carriages, as its roads are almost all just narrow mule-tracks. Naturally a railroad would be helpful as well, but that will have to wait for at least another century.
The name of the city in the Late Middle Ages was Aiazo, and the Early Modern Period it was Addiazzo in Italian or La Hiace in French, although both of those spellings were still in use in the 18th century. The Genoese spelling was Ajaccio, but it was pronounced and sometimes spelled Aiaccio, and the Corsicans spelled it Aiacciu or occasionally Aghjacciu. ITTL the city’s name will probably stay Ajaccio or perhaps be changed to Aiaccio, but either way I suspect it will indeed be pronounced like “ayachio” and definitely not like the modern French pronunciation.
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Although I’d love the idea of Corsican Llamas; and certainly they’d be great on the rocky roads on mountain sides I do not think they would do well in the Corsican climate. I think they would be prone to overheating plus the altitude is much lower than the Andes.
Also donkeys are way better at carrying weight pound for pound than any llama can.
Also donkeys are way better at carrying weight pound for pound than any llama can.