Keynes' Cruisers Volume 2

The Italian frogmen say, "Hello." The Russians will never see that paperweight.
She's in port in the UK, and Italy's out of the war. Are you proposing rogue frogmen? besides, if she is a paperweight, isn't the best thing to let the Russians have her and be forced to keep her?
 

McPherson

Banned
The Italians were active in making sure their paperweights were rendered just that (Example is the Aquila). Or the Russians were "incompetent" in parking their Italian battleship over a German laid minefield. Pick your own "theory".
Italian frogmen infiltrate the Soviet Union in 1953 all in order to blow up a 40 year old battleship. What's wrong with that theory beyond the 22.7% of the PCI in the elections of that year, the general efficiency of Soviet border troops and the Western intelligence apparatus leaking like a shieve at the time in general?
 

McPherson

Banned
Italian frogmen infiltrate the Soviet Union in 1953 all in order to blow up a 40 year old battleship. What's wrong with that theory beyond the 22.7% of the PCI in the elections of that year, the general efficiency of Soviet border troops and the Western intelligence apparatus leaking like a shieve at the time in general?

1. Soviet border troops were fair on land but were not too good against infiltration from the sea. See 2.
2. Italian SOF successful operations against the Russians during WWII were ridiculously effective. Also against the British and the Germans. See 4.
3. Partito Communista was blanked out of NATO councils as were some NATO member states. See 4.
4. Neither the Germans, nor the British were told anything about certain Mediterranean operations.

Then there is the German minefield theory... Like the mines that scuttled the Aquila.
 
1. Soviet border troops were fair on land but were not too good against infiltration from the sea. See 2.
2. Italian SOF successful operations against the Russians during WWII were ridiculously effective. Also against the British and the Germans. See 4.
3. Partito Communista was blanked out of NATO councils as were some NATO member states. See 4.
4. Neither the Germans, nor the British were told anything about certain Mediterranean operations.

Then there is the German minefield theory... Like the mines that scuttled the Aquila.
Sevastopol is in the Black Sea, Frogman is way into tinfoil hat crackpot territory , far better targets available if you could infiltrate
 
Story 2555
Maug Island, August 7, 1944

The radar operator smiled. Forty six Liberators had passed overhead in the morning. The forty-sixth large, slow lumbering bomber appeared on his radar screen just a moment ago at the expected altitude. He watched the screen for another moment and saw the bombers make a slight change in course as the radio beacon which had been turned on just a few minutes ago gave the navigators a far firmer fix. The sergeant in charge of the shift picked up the field telephone and called the command post.

Several hundred yards away on the eastern island at the outpost command post, the radio crackled just moments after the commander received the report that all aircraft were accounted for. Two of the bombers were heavily damaged. One had been hit by flak, and the other was being flown by a wounded co-pilot after a head on pass killed the pilot and the flight engineer. They were both attempting to make it to at least Maug but the raid commander was very doubtful that the flak damaged bomber had much time left in the air.

Soon the island outpost was a beehive of activity. A pair of PT boats stripped down to be fast rescue boats were soon picking their way through the narrow waters between the east and north island. The Catalina that was already in the airborne conducting a local anti-submarine patrol as well as acting as the standby plane guard role turned to the north. Another Catalina that was equipped as an air ambulance soon was being fueled.

Three hours later, the air ambulance was heading to Saipan with four wounded airmen. The co-pilot was still in sickbay aboard the flying boat tender while the engineers had managed to strip out a pair of engines, most of the navigation gear and all of the machine guns for the bomber that belly flopped in the lagoon before they attached a tow line to the bomber and saw the small yard tug drag the aluminum carcass to deep water for disposal.
 
I severely doubt any Italian frogmen can get into the UK to sink the battleship, much less the Soviet Union but anyhow....

Maug seems to be busy.
 
The Italians were active in making sure their paperweights were rendered just that (Example is the Aquila). Or the Russians were "incompetent" in parking their Italian battleship over a German laid minefield. Pick your own "theory".
Given the amount of UXO found in Europe today, I can see there being a stray mine or two from the Second World War if not even the First, being hit by a ship in the Black Sea even at anchor. Sevastopol would be one of those areas that would have multiple minefields by both sides in the 2nd WW that every mine would not be known even after sweeping areas. Drifting mines could exist easily in the area and could be from as far as Bulgaria or even the Turkish fields form WW 2 or even the first that broke free.
 
Given the amount of UXO found in Europe today, I can see there being a stray mine or two from the Second World War if not even the First, being hit by a ship in the Black Sea even at anchor. Sevastopol would be one of those areas that would have multiple minefields by both sides in the 2nd WW that every mine would not be known even after sweeping areas. Drifting mines could exist easily in the area and could be from as far as Bulgaria or even the Turkish fields form WW 2 or even the first that broke free.
No kidding, I know that the dutch navy´s mine hunters are exercising the removal of mines by removing uxo from WWII (talk about realistic training aids)
 
Given the amount of UXO found in Europe today, I can see there being a stray mine or two from the Second World War if not even the First, being hit by a ship in the Black Sea even at anchor. Sevastopol would be one of those areas that would have multiple minefields by both sides in the 2nd WW that every mine would not be known even after sweeping areas. Drifting mines could exist easily in the area and could be from as far as Bulgaria or even the Turkish fields form WW 2 or even the first that broke free.
No kidding, I know that the dutch navy´s mine hunters are exercising the removal of mines by removing uxo from WWII (talk about realistic training aids)

UXO stories :)

Aviano AB Italy had a couple when I was there in the 80s. (And one not so funny one in that the ex-German Air Base was riddled with boobytraps so much that they poured concrete into several underground entrances to prevent people from entering)

First of all was an unexploded bomb found while digging out the foundation of a building to replace it. Explosive Ordinance Disposal was called and after evacuating the passenger terminal, (which those of us inside waiting for a flight were highly surprised to see a "bomb guy" all suited up lumbering past the big picture windows... He was ALSO surprised as was every one else because they kind of forgot to tell us there was bomb right next door :) ) they put on a C4 charge and detonated it... The charge, not the bomb... Because it appeared it was full of concrete. A WWII practice bomb in other words, that someone had hauled all the way to Italy and dropped during WWII...

Second was a bit more major. See outside the main HQ building near the flight line was this large 'hill' of dirt that had been there forever. (As far as the American's were concerned anyway :) ) Well we had this Air National Guard unit that would come over every year and set up a ground based radar so they figured you know, putting it on that hill will extend the horizon and we probably should use that hill for something after all. So they cut a 'road' around the perimeter and also dug some fighting pits for use during exercises and during one of those exercises on crew found some linked ammo sticking out of the back wall. Dig a bit more and there's some loose ammo, a few odds and ends of gear and what appears to be a tin-can stuck on a stick.... THAT got out attention and it turns out that when the Brits took the base in WWII they gathered all the 'loose' ammo and such and dumped it in a shallow hole and plied a bunch of dirt on top. And neglected to tell anyone about it :)

Fun times indeed :)

Randy
 

McPherson

Banned
Given the amount of UXO found in Europe today, I can see there being a stray mine or two from the Second World War if not even the First, being hit by a ship in the Black Sea even at anchor. Sevastopol would be one of those areas that would have multiple minefields by both sides in the 2nd WW that every mine would not be known even after sweeping areas. Drifting mines could exist easily in the area and could be from as far as Bulgaria or even the Turkish fields form WW 2 or even the first that broke free.
But the Russians claim they knew about the laid minefield and parked next to it anyway? Like I suggested, I think a Mutsu could be more possible or Italian frogmen.
 
UXO stories :)

Aviano AB Italy had a couple when I was there in the 80s. (And one not so funny one in that the ex-German Air Base was riddled with boobytraps so much that they poured concrete into several underground entrances to prevent people from entering)

First of all was an unexploded bomb found while digging out the foundation of a building to replace it. Explosive Ordinance Disposal was called and after evacuating the passenger terminal, (which those of us inside waiting for a flight were highly surprised to see a "bomb guy" all suited up lumbering past the big picture windows... He was ALSO surprised as was every one else because they kind of forgot to tell us there was bomb right next door :) ) they put on a C4 charge and detonated it... The charge, not the bomb... Because it appeared it was full of concrete. A WWII practice bomb in other words, that someone had hauled all the way to Italy and dropped during WWII...

Second was a bit more major. See outside the main HQ building near the flight line was this large 'hill' of dirt that had been there forever. (As far as the American's were concerned anyway :) ) Well we had this Air National Guard unit that would come over every year and set up a ground based radar so they figured you know, putting it on that hill will extend the horizon and we probably should use that hill for something after all. So they cut a 'road' around the perimeter and also dug some fighting pits for use during exercises and during one of those exercises on crew found some linked ammo sticking out of the back wall. Dig a bit more and there's some loose ammo, a few odds and ends of gear and what appears to be a tin-can stuck on a stick.... THAT got out attention and it turns out that when the Brits took the base in WWII they gathered all the 'loose' ammo and such and dumped it in a shallow hole and plied a bunch of dirt on top. And neglected to tell anyone about it :)

Fun times indeed :)

Randy
LOL, then you will love this subject: search the term "WW 1 Iron Harvest" on Youtube
 

NHBL

Kicked
UXO stories :)

Aviano AB Italy had a couple when I was there in the 80s. (And one not so funny one in that the ex-German Air Base was riddled with boobytraps so much that they poured concrete into several underground entrances to prevent people from entering)

First of all was an unexploded bomb found while digging out the foundation of a building to replace it. Explosive Ordinance Disposal was called and after evacuating the passenger terminal, (which those of us inside waiting for a flight were highly surprised to see a "bomb guy" all suited up lumbering past the big picture windows... He was ALSO surprised as was every one else because they kind of forgot to tell us there was bomb right next door :) ) they put on a C4 charge and detonated it... The charge, not the bomb... Because it appeared it was full of concrete. A WWII practice bomb in other words, that someone had hauled all the way to Italy and dropped during WWII...

Second was a bit more major. See outside the main HQ building near the flight line was this large 'hill' of dirt that had been there forever. (As far as the American's were concerned anyway :) ) Well we had this Air National Guard unit that would come over every year and set up a ground based radar so they figured you know, putting it on that hill will extend the horizon and we probably should use that hill for something after all. So they cut a 'road' around the perimeter and also dug some fighting pits for use during exercises and during one of those exercises on crew found some linked ammo sticking out of the back wall. Dig a bit more and there's some loose ammo, a few odds and ends of gear and what appears to be a tin-can stuck on a stick.... THAT got out attention and it turns out that when the Brits took the base in WWII they gathered all the 'loose' ammo and such and dumped it in a shallow hole and plied a bunch of dirt on top. And neglected to tell anyone about it :)

Fun times indeed :)

Randy
In 1982, I was onboard one of the smaller tall ships--sloop of war Providence--and we were anchored in Provincetown Harbor. Fortunately the old mine that much have drifted by us to arrive in the Block Island Boat's berth didn't hit us or anything else. (Thanks for jogging my memory; I'll need to include that incident in my current timeline.)
 
In 1982, I was onboard one of the smaller tall ships--sloop of war Providence--and we were anchored in Provincetown Harbor. Fortunately the old mine that much have drifted by us to arrive in the Block Island Boat's berth didn't hit us or anything else. (Thanks for jogging my memory; I'll need to include that incident in my current timeline.)
😯
 
Story 2556
USS St. Paul, Western Pacific August 8, 1944

Leonard clipped the two loose wires together. It was not a textbook repair job, but it would be good enough for right now when the ship, the task group, the task force and the fleet could not afford to have another radar fail. He slid out from underneath the rabbit warren of vacuum tubes, wires and wiring harnesses that made up the guts of the device that he had to keep operating. One of the teammates handed him a coffee as soon as they were out of the way of the men trying to track bogies and bandits at the very edge of the scope. Radio messages from the destroyers further up threat had made it clear that another big raid was coming in.

The cruiser made a modest turn to the right as the four carriers in the task group accelerated into the wind to launch three dozen more Grummans and a dozen Voughts to reinforce the combat air patrol. Leonard did not know this. He could not care. He addressed his needs in the head near the CIC and then moved back to his assembly area for another call to fix a complex machine or to fight a fire. The gong rang again and the men who had been given a modest break soon were hurrying back to their guns. Ammunition was being brought up from the magazines to restock the ready storage as it was fired. The loaders made sure they had live, fused rounds in the chamber while the gun layers began to rotate the guns to the threats that the radar operators could confirm.

The five inch guns began to boom. Leonard did not worry. They provided a defense for both his ship and the ships around him. The proximity fused shells claimed a pair of Judy's that were attempting to line up an attack on the Enterprise.

The forty millimeter cannons began to chatter incessently. They had not fired in the last raid as there were no targets close enough to St. Paul or Enterprise or Lexington. His fingers slightly dug into his palms before he relaxed for a moment and checked to make sure his green steel helmet was tight to his head. He heard a cheer. Perhaps the gun crews could claim a kill?

The ripping staccato roar of the machine cannons began. They had not fired since the Pacific Fleet had arrived off of Okinawa. The cruiser heeled hard left for eleven seconds. And then it righted itself for three breaths before heading hard astern. Leonard could feel the great screws grip the Pacific waters as every single horsepower was being sent through the shafts. The ship shook. It felt like a near miss. There was no calls for a damage control party to move forward. The ship shuddered again.

And then the world turned red and orange as a massive blast pushed Leonard to the deck.
 
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