Irish approach towards an Catholic british rulership.

So, Ireland was subjulgated by the protestant british for centuries and eventually the anger exploded in the 1916 rising. The UK had through the centuries passed and lifted many anti catholic laws, including some that could fit as segregation.

Let's say that the UK is unified as a catholic state, and they eventually absorb Ireland. How would this domination work?
 
So, Ireland was subjulgated by the protestant british for centuries and eventually the anger exploded in the 1916 rising. The UK had through the centuries passed and lifted many anti catholic laws, including some that could fit as segregation.

Let's say that the UK is unified as a catholic state, and they eventually absorb Ireland. How would this domination work?
It would be a continuation of the "Old Foreigners," the Norman-English settlers in Ireland before Henry. A lot more intermarriage than IOTL, which may or may not temper the tendency of many Anglo-Irish to assimilate into the surrounding Irish culture. Best-case for England, Ireland is assimilated as thoroughly as OTL Wales eventually.
 
It would be a continuation of the "Old Foreigners," the Norman-English settlers in Ireland before Henry. A lot more intermarriage than IOTL, which may or may not temper the tendency of many Anglo-Irish to assimilate into the surrounding Irish culture. Best-case for England, Ireland is assimilated as thoroughly as OTL Wales eventually.
So it would be a mutually beneficial agreement, or this is not possible even with both sharing the same faith?
 
Wales and Scotland had a mutually beneficial relationship, there's no inherent reason why Ireland can't as well.
The problem is that the English saw the Irish as an inferior culture even before they converted to Anglicanism, something often forgotten is that Mary I in spite of being a Catholic settled English colonists in Ireland just as her successors did. Even James II of Jacobite fame revealed a very contemptuous attitude towards the Irish in his instructions to his son. England remaining Catholic would not prevent the hostility between Ireland and England, though it might not become as bad as OTL.
 
The problem is that the English saw the Irish as an inferior culture even before they converted to Anglicanism, something often forgotten is that Mary I in spite of being a Catholic settled English colonists in Ireland just as her successors did. Even James II of Jacobite fame revealed a very contemptuous attitude towards the Irish in his instructions to his son. England remaining Catholic would not prevent the hostility between Ireland and England, though it might not become as bad as OTL.
You could say the same about the Welsh in the middle ages, or the Scottish Highlanders, who were seen as barbarians by the Lowlanders.
 
The main problem in Ireland was the theft of land by the invaders both sides having the same religion does not change this.
The big issue in Ireland is land and who owns it.
That said one of the effects of the penal laws was the subdivision of tenant framer land.
Religion was an easy way of identifying native Irish and separating them from the settlers. In places like South Africa and Australia, skin colour was the way to do this.
A catholic farmer had to divide the land among all his sons. Without this subdivision formed by the penal laws means farms do not become so small.
This could have had an effect on the famine of the 1840s. This would mean a big increase in the number of landless peasants who were the most vulnerable in the famine.
One of the other aims of the penal laws was to deprive the native Irish of the ability to own weapons or horses of military value.
Some other methods of keeping weapons out of the hands of native Irish would need to be devised.
With the penal laws the deal the British did with the Catholic Church in Ireland where the catholic church supported the union and excommunicating any of their member who joined oath-bound secret societies might not happen.
Then there is the issue of limiting the native Irish votes in the Irish parliament before the act of union.
The biggest problem the British had in Ireland was it was never given the time or attention needed to make it a loyal part of the UK. The British general had large more pressing issues to deal with than Ireland.
After the industrialisation of Great Britain when ownership of land was not a major source of wealth, Ireland become even less important to the British to hold on to.
Lady Bracknell : What between the duties expected of one during one’s lifetime and the duties exacted from one after one’s death, land has ceased to be either a profit or a pleasure.It gives one position and prevents one from keeping it up. https://literature.stackexchange.co...nes-say-about-victorian-investments-and-taxes
 
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The main problem in Ireland was the theft of land by the invaders both sides having the same religion does not change this.
There have been lots of conquests in the British Isles: Anglo-Saxons of Britons, Vikings of Anglo-Saxons, Anglo-Saxons of Vikings, Normans of Anglo-Saxons, English of Welsh... All of these involved large-scale appropriates of land. In all cases, however, the conquerors and the conquered eventually merged, such that it's now impossible to tell them apart. This didn't happen in Ireland, however. Maybe there's some other explanation for this apart from religion, but religion does seem like the obvious cause, and I personally haven't seen any other explanations for why Ireland should be the exception to the general trend.
This could have had an effect on the famine of the 1840s. This would mean a big increase in the number of landless peasants who were the most vulnerable in the famine.
Interesting, I always thought the opposite -- without the penal laws, farmers wouldn't have to resort to potato-based monocultures in an effort to squeeze enough calories out of the tiny postage-stamp-sized plots that resulted from generations of land division.
 
There have been lots of conquests in the British Isles: Anglo-Saxons of Britons, Vikings of Anglo-Saxons, Anglo-Saxons of Vikings, Normans of Anglo-Saxons, English of Welsh... All of these involved large-scale appropriates of land. In all cases, however, the conquerors and the conquered eventually merged, such that it's now impossible to tell them apart. This didn't happen in Ireland, however. Maybe there's some other explanation for this apart from religion, but religion does seem like the obvious cause, and I personally haven't seen any other explanations for why Ireland should be the exception to the general trend.

Interesting, I always thought the opposite -- without the penal laws, farmers wouldn't have to resort to potato-based monocultures in an effort to squeeze enough calories out of the tiny postage-stamp-sized plots that resulted from generations of land division.
And isn't the Irish mythological "history" of their own country's foundation actually called by a Gaelic name that translates into English as "The Book of Invasions"? IIRC the sequence was
Cesair (found it uninhabited, but died out)
Partholon (ditto)
Nemedians (found it uninhabited)
Firbolg (conquered the Nemedians)
Fomorians (conquered the Firbolg)
Aes Sidhe (warred with the Fomorians, drove them out)
Milesians (= Gaels, & supposedly came from Spain) (warred with the Aes Sidhe, who retreated into another dimension)
 
There have been lots of conquests in the British Isles: Anglo-Saxons of Britons, Vikings of Anglo-Saxons, Anglo-Saxons of Vikings, Normans of Anglo-Saxons, English of Welsh... All of these involved large-scale appropriates of land. In all cases, however, the conquerors and the conquered eventually merged, such that it's now impossible to tell them apart. This didn't happen in Ireland, however. Maybe there's some other explanation for this apart from religion, but religion does seem like the obvious cause, and I personally haven't seen any other explanations for why Ireland should be the exception to the general trend.
In general most of the invaders assimilated into Irish society with the exception of the British settlers after the plantation of ulster.
The ending of the Irish legal system (brehon law) and the breaking up of the clan system brought an end to this.


Interesting, I always thought the opposite -- without the penal laws, farmers wouldn't have to resort to potato-based monocultures in an effort to squeeze enough calories out of the tiny postage-stamp-sized plots that resulted from generations of land division.
The use of potatoes was due to the increasing amount of land needed for crash crops like grain to pay the rent to the land and potatoes could be grown on marginal land not subtle for the production of grain.
The corn laws help maintain a high price for grain.
After the corn laws were repealed the price of grain dropped and made it hard to sell enough grain to pay the rent in the years after the famine and there was a switch to grazing cattle for dairy and beef production.
 
The thing about a Catholic England is you might well get Great Britain involved, all of it into becoming catholic, ish

It'll be a sign of resistance to stay protestant, Ireland ends up the same way, only with a different part of it who's pews have those kneeler benches things.
 
And isn't the Irish mythological "history" of their own country's foundation actually called by a Gaelic name that translates into English as "The Book of Invasions"?
Yes, although it's of pretty dubious historical value.
In general most of the invaders assimilated into Irish society with the exception of the British settlers after the plantation of ulster.
Most of the invaders were either Catholic already or converted shortly after. It was only when you get long-term religious differences that you see the two communities remain distinct.
 
Yes, although it's of pretty dubious historical value.

Most of the invaders were either Catholic already or converted shortly after. It was only when you get long-term religious differences that you see the two communities remain distinct.
In my opinion, it was the ending of the Irish legal system of brehon law that end insulation into Irish society.
Brehon law was got rid of because it did not allow individual ownership of land.
The individual ownership of land was what the settlers who become the Irish ascendancy wanted.
 
In my opinion, it was the ending of the Irish legal system of brehon law that end insulation into Irish society.
Brehon law was got rid of because it did not allow individual ownership of land.
The individual ownership of land was what the settlers who become the Irish ascendancy wanted.
Mainland Britain didn't have brehon law, but that didn't stop the Britons, Vikings, Normans, Welsh, etc., being assimilated.
 
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